Ninja's Slipper Clutch at Track Day

[Speedy3]

First track day on 300. Loved every second... exactly for shifts on the main straight. I am not sure if it is the slipper in the '14 ex300 or what, but maybe someone here can enlighten me:

On the main straight i pin it, wide open. At around 10/11k rpms, I cut throttle, pull clutch and shove the gear lever down (go shift). Let go of the clutch and slam on the throttle. The thing is, the revs stay at 11/12k for solid 2 SECONDS, then they drop to 8.5-9.5k, as if the gears didn't actually change until after that 2 second delay. When i did this, I made extra care to ensure he clutch was slammed against the handle (fully disengaged), and that the throttle was FULLY cut off. The delay would still occur.

Is there any reasoning for this or what I can do to avoid it. I tweaked the clutch cable over the course of the day. I don't think it did much. The more I think about it though, the more I think that shouldn't matter. The clutch plate is lifted after only some of the pull. If I was fully disengaging the clutch while fully disengaging the gas during the shift, that seat shouldn't have occurred, should it have?

[gptoyz]

Originally Posted by Speedy3

First track day on 300. Loved every second... exactly for shifts on the main straight. I am not sure if it is the slipper in the '14 ex300 or what, but maybe someone here can enlighten me:

On the main straight i pin it, wide open. At around 10/11k rpms, I cut throttle, pull clutch and shove the gear lever down (go shift). Let go of the clutch and slam on the throttle. The thing is, the revs stay at 11/12k for solid 2 SECONDS, then they drop to 8.5-9.5k, as if the gears didn't actually change until after that 2 second delay. When i did this, I made extra care to ensure he clutch was slammed against the handle (fully disengaged), and that the throttle was FULLY cut off. The delay would still occur.

Is there any reasoning for this or what I can do to avoid it. I tweaked the clutch cable over the course of the day. I don't think it did much. The more I think about it though, the more I think that shouldn't matter. The clutch plate is lifted after only some of the pull. If I was fully disengaging the clutch while fully disengaging the gas during the shift, that seat shouldn't have occurred, should it have?

I'm assuming by "go shift" you mean reverse shift aka GP shift

Assuming that, I'm guessing you mean you are experiencing this while doing an up shift. Well it shouldn't be the slipper part of the slipper clutch doing this - a slipper clutch is for back torque limiting. It's suppose to only be working when you are down shifting so that you don't break loose real wheel traction on an aggressive downshift

I would suggest this change to your shifting procedure:

#1 shift near redline so that you don't fall out of the "power curve", there's a definite dip in power below 9k
#2 don't use the clutch on an upshift
#3 instead, pin the throttle, then just before the upshift, kill the gas and...
#4 engage the shift lever up gear
#5 immediately get back on the power

Another thing, make sure you don't use friction modifiers in your engine oil, that can cause clutch slip since the engine/transmission use the same lubrication

[Speedy3]

I did mean GP shift! That was after being up for like 22 hours. My brain had enough by then.

I will give the clutchless shifting a try, but I still wish i understood why it happens. I ran my 250 at the track and that bike had a way more questionable past, yet it would upshift cleanly and responsively. I have never ridden a bike that didn't shift until a couple seconds after the shift and being back on the gas fully.

[gptoyz]

Originally Posted by Speedy3

I did mean GP shift! That was after being up for like 22 hours. My brain had enough by then.

I will give the clutchless shifting a try, but I still wish i understood why it happens. I ran my 250 at the track and that bike had a way more questionable past, yet it would upshift cleanly and responsively. I have never ridden a bike that didn't shift until a couple seconds after the shift and being back on the gas fully.

if you haven't done so, I would move to an r6 throttle tube as well

what kind of oil are you using?

is your clutch adjuster for the proper amount of articulation and play?

[choneofakind]

Dumb question: is your clutch lever not adjusted with enough slack in it? like maybe is your clutch lever not completely disengaging the clutch, allowing it to slip when you slam shift the gears?

[Triple Jim]

My vote would be to continue to use the clutch on shifts, for longevity of the shift dogs. The problem *seems* like a marginal clutch that slips for a couple seconds after shifting for some reason. As stated, some possible causes are wrong oil, misadjusted cable, etc..

[taz]

[gptoyz]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

My vote would be to continue to use the clutch on shifts, for longevity of the shift dogs. The problem *seems* like a marginal clutch that slips for a couple seconds after shifting for some reason. As stated, some possible causes are wrong oil, misadjusted cable, etc..

don't worry guys, the planet is definitely NOT flat!

http://www.sportrider.com/clutchless...-skills-series

take everything you ever learned from whatever rinky dink MSF class ever taught you and throw it out the window

[Triple Jim]

This has nothing to do with the shape of the earth or MSF courses. There is a clutch problem if it takes two seconds to engage after shifting. Clutchless shifting might sidestep the problem, but the problem would remain.

I said my vote would be to use the clutch. I'm quite familiar with clutchless shifting, but my preference is to use the clutch. That's why I said "my vote" rather than "you must..."

[Speedy3]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

This has nothing to do with the shape of the earth or MSF courses. There is a clutch problem if it takes two seconds to engage after shifting. Clutchless shifting might sidestep the problem, but the problem would remain.

I said my vote would be to use the clutch. I'm quite familiar with clutchless shifting, but my preference is to use the clutch. That's why I said "my vote" rather than "you must..."

To all of you. I adjusted the clutch at the track, to stiffen it a bit (remove play) and loosen it (increase play). I figured doing both would cure a clutch that is not every fully engaging, or not ever fully disengaging.

As far as oil, I cannot say, as I have yet to change it yet. It still had color in the window since I bought it, so I simply left it. I know how silly this sounds, but the gentleman I purchased this bike from knows bikes, and I trust he put proper oil. He professional services BMWs, has his own shop on the side, and every bike he has is immaculate.

I will look into proper oil for the track, but I would just be surprised if that was the big IT. At the track, shifting at above the power band is when this issue occurred. I can tell you that whilst riding it around the neighborhood, shifting at about 4-7k (much more conservatively), there was no such delay and the shifts are very clean and mechanical feeling. This has only occurred on the track. Which blows, because that is the only place for this bike :/

[AwDang]

The slipper part of the clutch works anytime the rear wheel speed is greater than the engine speed. The slipper acts just as if you were pulling in the lever and releasing it to grab.

This can happen at upshifts if you completely chop the throttle letting the RPM drop way down. try keeping your RPM up when shifting. I would consider taking it apart and inspecting all the sliding surfaces and bearings. It sounds like it has a little delay ramping back closed.

[gptoyz]

Originally Posted by Speedy3

To all of you. I adjusted the clutch at the track, to stiffen it a bit (remove play) and loosen it (increase play). I figured doing both would cure a clutch that is not every fully engaging, or not ever fully disengaging.

As far as oil, I cannot say, as I have yet to change it yet. It still had color in the window since I bought it, so I simply left it. I know how silly this sounds, but the gentleman I purchased this bike from knows bikes, and I trust he put proper oil. He professional services BMWs, has his own shop on the side, and every bike he has is immaculate.

I will look into proper oil for the track, but I would just be surprised if that was the big IT. At the track, shifting at above the power band is when this issue occurred. I can tell you that whilst riding it around the neighborhood, shifting at about 4-7k (much more conservatively), there was no such delay and the shifts are very clean and mechanical feeling. This has only occurred on the track. Which blows, because that is the only place for this bike :/

well you should be able to simulate this clutch behavior on a ninja 300 around town without breaking the law.

I have to use race shifting when I merge on to the FWY in california near my offramp - short merge and everyone is doing at least 70 mph. So I use full throttle, clutchless up shifts to make sure I don't get killed by a prius. But that's the fun part about this bike - in that way it's like the BRZ FRS of the motorcycle world. On my GSXR1000, I could lazily accelerate in 3rd gear and be instantly at go directly to jail, do not pass GO Speeds.

there are 2 points to adjust the clutch engagement:
@ the lever
@ the clutch pivot about the clutch cover

make sure that you aren't keeping the tension too tight

[choneofakind]

Also try cleaning/lubricating the cable. Sounds dumb, but knocking out the simple/dumb stuff first saves headaches. Nothing feels dumber than tearing something completely apart and wasting hours only to realize it was something tiny and insignificant.