ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > New Members

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 14th, 2020, 11:54 AM   #1
amanda_michele
ninjette.org newbie
 
Name: Amanda
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Join Date: Nov 2020

Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R, 05 GSX-750R

Posts: 4
carb problem #153131326

Hi everyone!

Just started riding a couple weeks ago (on a GSXR 600)... and realized that starting on a supersport bike while lacking even basic riding skills would probably not end well for me, so found my 2008 Ninja 250, which, I was told just needed the carbs cleaned. Little to my knowledge...someone before me had played with all the hoses and apparently never even took the carbs out because they looked beautiful once I got them open...now im just having trouble getting the hoses back where they belong. I've seen the diagrams on here but still have a little trouble with where they go to off of the carb.
amanda_michele is offline   Reply With Quote




Old November 14th, 2020, 12:12 PM   #2
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
@ducatiman should be able to help. He's the carb expert here. But be warned that these 250 carbs are not so easy to get clean, and not even easy to know when they are clean. Mine looked excellent, but didn't run that way until Gordon got done with them.

Welcome to the board Amanda!
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 14th, 2020, 12:25 PM   #3
ducatiman
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
ducatiman's Avatar
 
Name: Gordon
Location: new york
Join Date: Sep 2009

Motorcycle(s): '95 DUCATI 900SS/SP '07 DUCATI SS800 '19 HONDA CBR650R

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...l+hose+routing

older thread on CA model hose routing (including diagram)
__________________________________________________
gordon@customcarbservices.com
Custom Carb Service
www.customcarbservices.com
ducatiman is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old November 14th, 2020, 01:53 PM   #4
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Hi and welcome to Ninjette!

Here's diagram of new-gen '08-12 CA EVAP system hoses:


Hoses coming off carbs themselves can use this arrangement.

There is one hose in rear that connects to plastic T-tube in centre of carbs.
This is vent hose and should go back and down to exit near rear-shock and tyre (leave end open).

The "CA emissions fitting" above connects to "A" PAIR-valve that's positioned under frame over cylinder head.


Modern carb-cleaner sprays no longer work due to removal of chlorinated compounds. If your bike doesn't run like brand-new off showroom-floor, carbs most likely need further disassembly and deeper cleaning. Do search for "clean carbs ducatiman" to find threads with photos and procedures on what needs to be done for more complete factory-fresh clean restoration.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old November 21st, 2020, 05:27 PM   #5
Snake
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Snake's Avatar
 
Name: Rick
Location: Alexandria, Louisiana
Join Date: Jan 2009

Motorcycle(s): 05 Blue Ninja 250

Posts: Too much.
MOTY - 2017, MOTM - Jan '19, Oct '16, May '14
Hello and welcome!
Snake is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 21st, 2020, 06:57 PM   #6
amanda_michele
ninjette.org newbie
 
Name: Amanda
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Join Date: Nov 2020

Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R, 05 GSX-750R

Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Hi and welcome to Ninjette!

Here's diagram of new-gen '08-12 CA EVAP system hoses:


Hoses coming off carbs themselves can use this arrangement.

There is one hose in rear that connects to plastic T-tube in centre of carbs.
This is vent hose and should go back and down to exit near rear-shock and tyre (leave end open).

The "CA emissions fitting" above connects to "A" PAIR-valve that's positioned under frame over cylinder head.


Modern carb-cleaner sprays no longer work due to removal of chlorinated compounds. If your bike doesn't run like brand-new off showroom-floor, carbs most likely need further disassembly and deeper cleaning. Do search for "clean carbs ducatiman" to find threads with photos and procedures on what needs to be done for more complete factory-fresh clean restoration.

Thank you for the information! I couldn't find the diagram with the PAIR valve anywhere...

I have everything hooked up the way it shows in the diagram, as far as I know...
EXCEPT:
1. I don't have a hose connected to the top of the vacuum switch valve thing and I don't even know if one would fit, it pretty much butts right up to the frame.
2. The box under the tank with the wire/plug coming out of it. (I assume it's for the fuel gauge) Looks like there is supposed to be a hose connected to it but there's not.

I had already taken the carbs off and they looked good but I cleaned them anyway, used a wire to make sure all of the little holes on the jets were clear, the floats moved freely, butterfly's weren't sticky. Drilled out the caps to access the set screws, set them out 2.5 turns.

I can get the bike started and running. The problem is that right after I start it, the revs will start to climb. If i open the throttle, the revs will drop and it responds the way it should until I let off and then they drop a little but then start to climb again until I just shut it off.

*The idle is not high when I start the bike.
*The idle adjustment on the carb does not touch this no matter how much I adjust it.
*I did just replace the throttle cable(the old one was freyed so bad it wouldn't return on its own) but this was happening before I changed it. It's not pinched or hung up anywhere and it makes no difference.
*The revs "climb" on their own smoothly. The throttle is not stuck open.
*The fuel petcock seems to be working just fine.

I'm thinking it's a vacuum/air leak OR I have a hose hooked up incorrectly...any advice would be greatly appreciated.
amanda_michele is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 22nd, 2020, 07:52 PM   #7
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by amanda_michele View Post
I have everything hooked up the way it shows in the diagram, as far as I know...
EXCEPT:
1. I don't have a hose connected to the top of the vacuum switch valve thing and I don't even know if one would fit, it pretty much butts right up to the frame.
2. The box under the tank with the wire/plug coming out of it. (I assume it's for the fuel gauge) Looks like there is supposed to be a hose connected to it but there's not.
1. Can you take & post photo of "vacuum switch valve thing"? Maybe it's mounted improperly.

2. The little funnel under tank is for fuel-level sender. If it starts leaking, the funnel & hose directs dripping petrol down to ground near shock like other vent/drainage hoses. Wouldn't want leaking petrol falling onto hot engine!

3. Do you have BOTH vacuum-ports on carbs plugged into something (no open hoses)? One should go directly to petcock. Other should go directly to coast-enricher. CA has T-fitting on that line that should go to vacuum-port for PAIR valve. Do not leave that T-fitting open.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amanda_michele View Post
I had already taken the carbs off and they looked good but I cleaned them anyway, used a wire to make sure all of the little holes on the jets were clear, the floats moved freely, butterfly's weren't sticky. Drilled out the caps to access the set screws, set them out 2.5 turns.

I can get the bike started and running. The problem is that right after I start it, the revs will start to climb. If i open the throttle, the revs will drop and it responds the way it should until I let off and then they drop a little but then start to climb again until I just shut it off.

*The idle is not high when I start the bike.
*The idle adjustment on the carb does not touch this no matter how much I adjust it.
*I did just replace the throttle cable(the old one was freyed so bad it wouldn't return on its own) but this was happening before I changed it. It's not pinched or hung up anywhere and it makes no difference.
*The revs "climb" on their own smoothly. The throttle is not stuck open.
*The fuel petcock seems to be working just fine.

I'm thinking it's a vacuum/air leak OR I have a hose hooked up incorrectly...any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Could be vacuum leaks, look at rubber manifolds between carb and head. Might need to remove carbs completely and remove those manifolds to look for cracks.

Most likely not as leaks there cause high-idle speed immediately due to extra air. Slow increase in idle-speed is carb issue. Most likely idle & pilot circuits not fully clean. Needs lots of scrubbing with nylong brushes, ultrasonic soaking and micro soda-blasting to really get them back to factory-fresh showroom clean. Search for "ducatiman clean carbs" for photos and procedures to do thorough restoration.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 22nd, 2020, 08:38 PM   #8
ducatiman
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
ducatiman's Avatar
 
Name: Gordon
Location: new york
Join Date: Sep 2009

Motorcycle(s): '95 DUCATI 900SS/SP '07 DUCATI SS800 '19 HONDA CBR650R

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
@DannoXYZ do you retain or discard the (vacuum dependent) emissions stuff on your racebikes? and streetbikes? (private message if so inclined)

OP @amanda_michele only you can confirm all piping is intact and correct per the documentation provided and posted in the thread. Fully eliminate any errors in your R/R carb process. If no revelations...then a revisit to carb internals is called for.

What is the total mileage on this '08?
__________________________________________________
gordon@customcarbservices.com
Custom Carb Service
www.customcarbservices.com
ducatiman is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 22nd, 2020, 09:32 PM   #9
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
I keep all carb & emissions stuff bone-stock on street bikes. Don't like loud exhausts on bikes, so keep factory exhausts. So no need to modify carbs in any way to match modified exhaust.

On race-bike, I do remove emissions for weight-savings. Also modified exhaust changes air-flow-pattern, so there's minor changes in carbs. Mostly leaning out mixtures for more power.

I'll PM you what's needed to convert CA bike to Federal emissions configuration.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 26th, 2020, 01:17 PM   #10
amanda_michele
ninjette.org newbie
 
Name: Amanda
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Join Date: Nov 2020

Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R, 05 GSX-750R

Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
1. Can you take & post photo of "vacuum switch valve thing"? Maybe it's mounted improperly.

2. The little funnel under tank is for fuel-level sender. If it starts leaking, the funnel & hose directs dripping petrol down to ground near shock like other vent/drainage hoses. Wouldn't want leaking petrol falling onto hot engine!

3. Do you have BOTH vacuum-ports on carbs plugged into something (no open hoses)? One should go directly to petcock. Other should go directly to coast-enricher. CA has T-fitting on that line that should go to vacuum-port for PAIR valve. Do not leave that T-fitting open.

Could be vacuum leaks, look at rubber manifolds between carb and head. Might need to remove carbs completely and remove those manifolds to look for cracks.

Most likely not as leaks there cause high-idle speed immediately due to extra air. Slow increase in idle-speed is carb issue. Most likely idle & pilot circuits not fully clean. Needs lots of scrubbing with nylong brushes, ultrasonic soaking and micro soda-blasting to really get them back to factory-fresh showroom clean. Search for "ducatiman clean carbs" for photos and procedures to do thorough restoration.

Okay, so I had to walk away from it for a few days because I'd been trying to figure it out for so long that my brain just wasn't actually processing any of this info anymore. However, before I did, I attached a hose to the fuel-level sender and routed it out towards the rear shock.

Then I made sure that both of the vacuum connections were hooked up to something.
1. RS carb vac - Coasting enricher
2. LS carb vac - T - Petcock
T - PAIR Valve

...and somewhere in trying to figure out what was causing the problem(which didnt happen) I found out that if I disconnect the vacuum from the petcock, the bike runs fine.....for about a minute or two until it runs out of fuel....

anyway...yesterday as @ducatiman suggested, I decided to verify the hose config to the diagrams and ended up taking all the hoses off and putting them back on one by one just to make sure they were connected per the diagram, which they had been and then proceeded to try to show my husband what it was doing....AND THE DAMN THING STARTED AND RAN JUST FINE!!!

I don't even know what to think at this point but it hasn't done it since so I'm just going to hope it fixed itself somehow....unless anyone has an idea on what would cause this ^^

Thank you both for your help, it is so much appreciated
amanda_michele is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 28th, 2020, 02:19 PM   #11
amanda_michele
ninjette.org newbie
 
Name: Amanda
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Join Date: Nov 2020

Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R, 05 GSX-750R

Posts: 4
I had to walk away from it for a minute... Came back and took all the hoses off the carb and put them back one by one. Don't think anything went back on different than I had it before... But I started it up and it ran fine... Not sure what happened but it's running great now. Thank you for your help!
amanda_michele is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 28th, 2020, 11:50 PM   #12
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Yay!!! Awesome job fixing this!!
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 29th, 2020, 08:26 AM   #13
ducatiman
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
ducatiman's Avatar
 
Name: Gordon
Location: new york
Join Date: Sep 2009

Motorcycle(s): '95 DUCATI 900SS/SP '07 DUCATI SS800 '19 HONDA CBR650R

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
'Grats great you nailed it. Hopefully, not some weird intermittent thing going on. Time will tell.
__________________________________________________
gordon@customcarbservices.com
Custom Carb Service
www.customcarbservices.com
ducatiman is offline   Reply With Quote


Old November 29th, 2020, 10:57 AM   #14
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
I always use hose-clamps or zip-ties on rubber hoses, even if there's not much pressure of vacuum inside them. I've found sometimes, if they get pulled or twisted just right, they may develop gap with fitting and leak.

In your case, by disconnecting and re-connecting all hoses, you may have repaired tiny leak somewhere, even though all hoses were still connected the same. Don't think you're going insane, there's always some exception that throws monkey-wrench into works!
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Carb sync problem Cra1g 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 25 September 15th, 2016 04:46 PM
Carb problem... dies when on the gas jboyd12 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 43 April 9th, 2014 03:31 PM
Carb problem? Carytowncat 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 15 March 8th, 2014 11:21 AM
carb problem radioflyer 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 1 July 19th, 2013 06:55 PM
Carb Float Problem Trainsk8 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 3 June 4th, 2012 12:31 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:43 AM.


Website uptime monitoring Host-tracker.com
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are © Copyright 2022 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.