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Old February 22nd, 2011, 02:52 AM   #1
thegregbradley
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Question '04 ninja starter free spin... help?

Hey everyone, been lurking here for some time, finally have a question to ask...

The bike is a 2004 EX250 with fairly low mileage (3,200 miles, bought in December with 1,900). My bike has been making sort of a god awful screech when trying to start, kind of every now and then. Today, after work I went to start the bike and it would ONLY make that noise, then the starter wouldn't crank the engine over at all... it just freely spins.

I don't know much about bike starting systems.... I've just done a bunch of research, but couldn't find a definite answer. I checked the battery voltage, it's 12.5v with the key on. This is a few hours after riding it home today after push starting it. I suppose it COULD be the battery, but the starter will spin pretty well (although, freely, not engaged). Is there a starter solenoid on a bike? I was reading about the starter clutch, could it be that?

And finally, I'm okay with car repair but never had to do anything on my bike... is this something I can possibly tackle myself? I've done car starters/water pumps/oil pumps, things of that nature. I downloaded a repair manual for the 2008+ bikes, and the engine should be fairly similar, but there are obviously some major & minor differences.

Any insight is greatly appreciated!
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 05:45 AM   #2
dubojr1
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Sounds like you have some rust/corrosion issues. By what you are describing, it sounds as if the starter is spinning fine but never engages. The starter should engage and connect the gears to turn the engine. I would suggest you (yes you ) tackle this yourself. Remove the starter and I'd say the signs will be immediate. Some disassembly of the starter may be best too. clean everything up and re-assemble. GL!
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 05:37 PM   #3
thegregbradley
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I'm pretty sure it's not the starter itself, being that it does free spin without engaging the gears. I'm willing to bet it's either the starter clutch or some sort of weird battery issue.

Quick question, if I hook my bike up to my car's battery, would this narrow down that it's NOT the battery that's at fault here if the bike continues to behave as is (i.e. spinning but not engaging). Also, does anyone have a sort of minimum parts list of things I should buy to replace the starter clutch? Let's say it's just the starter clutch that needs to be replaced, I assume I'd need to get a gasket for the side cover of the engine that I'd be taking off, the associated bolts, and the starter clutch itself?

If anyone knows of an online how-to for this job, you'd be helping me IMMENSELY!
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 08:28 PM   #4
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get yourself a copy of the service manual for your bike.
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Old February 24th, 2011, 12:25 AM   #5
thegregbradley
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get yourself a copy of the service manual for your bike.
In progress, ordering when I order the parts. Just looking for some advice on what to order
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Old February 24th, 2011, 02:18 AM   #6
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You need to remove the starter to identify what parts you need to order based on what's broken/not working. Without getting in there, you have no idea what the real problem is and what parts are needed to fix it and to order.

The first thing you need is a service manual to make that determination. I had a link to a free pregen service manual before, but it has since been changed to a pay service. Do a search on Google and I'm sure you can come up with source for a free pregen manual online.
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Old February 25th, 2011, 09:47 AM   #7
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Yes, hooking it to your car battery and cranking can answer the question of whether it's your battery or not. I can't think of a single reason why your starter should not crank the bike over. Worst case scenario, I can hook you up with a guy who works on old gen bikes in the LA area if you don't want to do the work yourself.
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Old February 25th, 2011, 12:03 PM   #8
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I can't think of a single reason why your starter should not crank the bike over.
sheared teeth?
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Old February 25th, 2011, 03:16 PM   #9
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Quick question, if I hook my bike up to my car's battery, would this narrow down that it's NOT the battery that's at fault here if the bike continues to behave as is (i.e. spinning but not engaging).
Yup, that would be a perfectly reasonable test to try and learn something about the bike's issues. If a battery is on its way out, it very well might have enough juice to spin the starter motor, but not enough to hold the starter motor in place to engage the engine. It's more common on some other bikes than the ninjette, but it's certainly possible. Try with a known good battery first to see if the problem goes away. If not, then move on to the next step.
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Old February 28th, 2011, 08:10 PM   #10
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Starter problem

I have a 2004 just like yours. The first and so far only problem I had with it was the starter except mine would not even spin. I removed the fairing, removed the bolt holding it on, disconnected it from the relay, connected the starter to jumper cables connected to my car battery and nothing. It should be spinning like a top and pretty quiet at that point.

Don't buy a starter from the dealer. They quote around $250. I bought mine from a scrapper I found on eBay in Sun City. Went and picked it up for $50, had it installed in under 30 minutes and back on the road.

Last futzed with by frankfong; March 1st, 2011 at 10:58 AM.
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Old October 11th, 2019, 02:04 PM   #11
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Was this issue ever resolved? I might have the same issue.
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Old October 11th, 2019, 03:02 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by juanphatsun View Post
Was this issue ever resolved? I might have the same issue.
You will have to get your hands dirty and inspect your engine to determine problem. If your starter spins without spinning engine, there's several possibilities.

If it makes screeching/scratching noise

1. starter clutch slipping see Greg737's post below. Remove flywheel and spin starter-clutch by hand. It should grip tightly in one direction and not in other. Remove starter-clutch and inspect ring-gear hub for scratches, showing slippage.


If starter spins freely without screeching/scratching noise

2. sheared teeth on starter. Remove starter and inspect teeth on shaft. Manually spin starter by powering it with jumper cables, does it spin? If so, starter is most likely OK.

3. sheared teeth on ring-gear. Remove left side alternator cover. Spin engine by hand and inspect ring-gear making sure all teeth are present. I had hydrolocked engine due to leaking petcock and carbs filling engine with petrol. Trying to spin starter in that situation resulted in 4 broken teeth on ring-gear. I fixed it by welding teeth back on.




4. sheared ring-gear centre. Try spinning ring-gear by hand. If it moves easily by itself without spinning engine, then weld at centre hub is broken. Remove flywheel and starter to pull out pieces. Get replacement ring-gear or weld it back together.


Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; October 13th, 2019 at 05:45 PM.
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Old October 12th, 2019, 05:18 PM   #13
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[B
1. sheared teeth on starter.[/B] Remove starter and inspect teeth on shaft. Manually spin starter by powering it with jumper cables, does it spin? If so, starter is most likely OK.

When you're testing the starter are you just placing the negative terminal where the wire from the solenoid usually goes? Where should I place the positive terminal?
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Old October 12th, 2019, 05:48 PM   #14
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When you're testing the starter are you just placing the negative terminal where the wire from the solenoid usually goes? Where should I place the positive terminal?
Use jumper cables.

Negative on case of starter. Clamp on mounting bolt ears, usually clean spot free of paint.

Positive on terminal where starter-solenoid cable goes.
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Old October 13th, 2019, 10:46 AM   #15
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My bike has been making sort of a god awful screech when trying to start, kind of every now and then. Today, after work I went to start the bike and it would ONLY make that noise, then the starter wouldn't crank the engine over at all... it just freely spins.
Okay, I've been waiting for somebody to chime in on this thread with the true cause of the "spin and screech" situation, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen and it's too painful to keep standing by idle...

What you (the original poster) have here is a Starter Clutch problem. The "spin and screech" happens when the "pawls" of the Starter Clutch fail to properly grab onto the Starter Motor Clutch Gear. The bike's Starter Clutch is a "Sprag" type clutch which depends on spring-actuated pawls to grip inward onto another surface (in this case the inner surface is a collar that extends off of the Starter Motor Clutch Gear).

Obviously your Starter is working just fine, if it wasn't there would be no spinning of the starter gear-train which is resulting in the Starter Clutch "spin and screech".

Here's a drawing taken from the Kawasaki EX250 Motorcycle Service Manual, page 8-17, which shows an exploded diagram of the parts of the Starter Clutch.



The part that isn't working properly on your EX250 is the combination of numbers 4,5,6 which are the spring-actuated pawls (there are three complete sets of 4,5,6 contained within the Starter Clutch). On your bike one or two of these sets of parts are not working properly.

In rare cases the "spin and screech" problem can also be caused by a cracked Starter Clutch wheel (item #2 in the picture that I linked). When the Starter Clutch wheel develops a crack it creates extra room in the area around one or more of the pawls which prevents them from being able to grab tightly onto the Starter Motor Clutch Gear.
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Old October 14th, 2019, 12:42 AM   #16
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Here's a drawing taken from the Kawasaki EX250 Motorcycle Service Manual, page 8-17, which shows an exploded diagram of the parts of the Starter Clutch.

Thank you!

Follow up question: I've been looking for a sevice manual for quite some time, the only I find is the 86-87 ninja 250 model. Is that manual used for the 88-07 model?
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Old October 14th, 2019, 01:32 AM   #17
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Manuals are configured as ‘86-87 main manual then supplemental updates for each year 88-07.

So you buy ‘86-87 main manual + ‘04 supplement.
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