Wiring a DIODE for 4 L.E.D turn signals

[jonthechron]

Originally Posted by nattygirl

Did you change your relay? You probably need an electronic one.

Yeah, most likely! But only if your using stock lights. Make sure you don't get ones that says "for use with LEDs only","LED flasher relay" or something along those lines, you will burn it out right away using stock lights.

[Trainsk8]

ya i bought an electronic relay and installed it.

[jshox]

did the relay fix the problem? i just did the diode mod, and it fixed the problem with all my signals flashing at the same time but now. I have the same problem where the front turn signals work but the rears stay solid.

[kevlar250]

I'm really confused now, how can the fronts and rears act different from each other, since they're driven by the same wire? Where did you put the diodes?

[jshox]

I had the same problem when I had leds in front and stock rears. Only the front will flash and back will stay solid on the same side the front is flashing on. When I switched the rears to leds then all my signals turned on. Then I did diode mod, and now its doing the same thing with the front working correct and the rear not blinking just staying solid.

[jshox]

Maybe I just need a new flasher relay since I still have the stock one in. Can someone give me a model number for one they used, that worked will all led signals. Also I need to know where the relay is so I can replace it... Thanks for the help.

[Momaru]

Originally Posted by jshox

Maybe I just need a new flasher relay since I still have the stock one in. Can someone give me a model number for one they used, that worked will all led signals. Also I need to know where the relay is so I can replace it... Thanks for the help.

I've used the (CF12ANL-01) from SuperbrightLEDS and it works like a charm: no cutting, no rewiring. I've got all LEDs and it works well. The relay is concealed by your clutch-side tail fairing. It's a little black box (~1.5" on a side) that's hanging off the frame from a hanger hook.

[jshox]

Alright I ordered it. Thanks a lot I will let you know the outcome when I get it. Hopefully this fixes it.

[jshox]

Well I got that flasher from the link in the mail today installed it, and it all works perfectly now!!!!! That is so awesome Thanks for all the help.

[Cloud Strife]

The OP indicated that if you're cheap, you can make your own diode. How would one go about doing this? The picture of the diode in the link that the OP gave basically looks like 2 wires that come into one and one end. Is there way more to it?

I'm 100% 'special' when it comes to wiring, electronics, etc. etc. do you'll have to forgive my ignorance.

[kevlar250]

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...6&postcount=76

[gophurr]

So I did the diode mod exactly as the DIY shows, and grounded the diode to the Black and yellow ground wire. After I finished the install, I went to test everything, and all the turn signals work. But for some reason my headlights no longer work. There is no power going to the headlights at all, I used a volt meter to confirm this as well. The high beam indicator on the dash doesn't light up either. All the bulbs are still good and not burn out, and I've switched the headlight fuses as well. But I can't figure out what the problem is, HELP!

I forgot to add, I am not running HID's btw. I still have the stock original headlights. The are the same bulbs that came factory with the bike.

[FrugalNinja250]

Gotta say since you didn't say either way, but the headlight only comes on when the engine is running, or at least cranks fast enough to latch the headlight power relay.

[naughtylion]

Originally Posted by tc3jg

lol ok well in that case you need the di0de but my way does work and has been flawless for two months.....I think its because the Leds consume such little power that they are able to actually blink in sink wit the front signals even though they are hooked up to the same power source.

FYI anyone that cares - this works.

I was modding my bike the night I got it home last week, and having spent my last dime on bling instead of food I neglected to pick up a flasher relay or set up a diode. I figured I'd get it home first, rip it open and go to Jaycar if need be.

Wanting to get the scooter rear off asap, after installing the bike monkey intergrated tail light, I kept the rear turn signals connected and put them under the seat cowl.

Works like a charm.

BUT. Dodgey as all fk for a long term solution given the 'not so weatherproof' nature of the rear of this bike, and I live by the mantra of if something is worth doing, it's worth doing properly. I just wanted to let whoever's interested know that this definately works - but it's a dodge-up

[3290675]

so i've noticed since doing the diode. the indicator light on the assembly doesnt flash anymore. is this meant to happen?

[Vampyre]

Mine still works with the diode mod. Maybe you have one or both of the diodes backwards.

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by 3290675

so i've noticed since doing the diode. the indicator light on the assembly doesnt flash anymore. is this meant to happen?

Good chance you didn't ground the extra wire.

[DarkNinja52]

I did this mod on my own on my last bike, but I'm thinking i might just get the plugNplay one if I get LED signals.

Thoughts? comments?

[fundulz]

I installed the diode kit onto the bulb in my dash. I have an electronic relay and went to test out to see if the turn signals worked.... Right side came on fine and everything was blinking at the same time. As soon as I switched over to the left side they all went out and I saw I figured out that I blew a fuse. Replaced the fuse and the same thing happened. What am I doing wrong?

Here are the LEDS I have:
-Integrated tail light
-Flush mount turn signals
-Integrated turn signals on mirrors.

All stock turn signals have been removed.

Help!!

[fundulz]

Originally Posted by fundulz

I installed the diode kit onto the bulb in my dash. I have an electronic relay and went to test out to see if the turn signals worked.... Right side came on fine and everything was blinking at the same time. As soon as I switched over to the left side they all went out and I saw I figured out that I blew a fuse. Replaced the fuse and the same thing happened. What am I doing wrong?

Here are the LEDS I have:
-Integrated tail light
-Flush mount turn signals
-Integrated turn signals on mirrors.

All stock turn signals have been removed.

Help!!

So I replaced the "TURN" fuse and rewired everything and I can now get the flush mounts and the tail light to flash. However, the mirrors do not flash but remain solid and the turn signal indicator does not blink but remain solid as well. The flush mounts and the taillight blink but they are not synced. Is it possible that I blew the electronic flasher relay?

[CThunder-blue]

What relay do u have? How did you connect the mirror signals to your blinkers? Also sounds like you need to sand down your ground contact for the Diode kit.

[fundulz]

I have the Electronic Flasher Relay from customled.com made for the 250. It has the stock connectors on it. I was going to replace it today by picking one up from Autozone however I'm not sure which one I need.

The mirrors I connected to the flush mount signals via a Y-adapter.

[CThunder-blue]

Get the tridon ep34. Run a ground wire on the E pin.

[CZroe]

Looking at the wiring diagram, I understand why the diodes are needed: The power flows alternate directions through the dash indicatorfor each selection (left or right). The power coming out of the bulb has no way to find ground except through the other side's bulbs, which is why they light up a bit. What I don't understand is why they don't all light up even before being replaced with LEDs signals. The split to the dash indicator happens before it runs through the signals and, thus, power is not attenuated by incandescent bulbs before passing through it. It seems to me that all sides should light equally minus the small amount used by the dash indicator bulb for the unintended side. If the dash indicator were wired in line BEHIND both signals, I'd understand, but it isn't.

It looks like the pregen works the same way, so look at this diagram. My Clymer manual shows the same thing for the newgen.

This may be a problem for me as I'm trying to work out a schematic using relays so that some auxiliary brake and running lights will only run when the blinkers AREN'T operating.

[kevlar250]

You are right, the unselected side, even with stock bulbs, does "light up" (pass current) by way of the dash bulb but the amount of current (because of the resistance of dash bulb) is so little that the F & R bulb filaments don't get hot enough to glow. Incandescent bulb filaments increase their resistance as they increase in temp so a non-glowing (cold) bulb filament acts as a piece of wire. This is not the case with efficient LED bulbs. The 3.7w dash bulb passes plenty of current to light up most LED signals.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by CZroe

It looks like the pregen works the same way

yes, it does.

[CZroe]

If you guys are planning to replace your dash lights with LEDs, well, those are already diodes, so try this:
Put TWO LEDs in the turn signal dash indicator hole. Connect one to the left-signal wiring and the other to the right-signal wiring and ground both.

I guess it's technically two birds with two stones, but doing the diode mod too would be three-plus stones.

Originally Posted by kevlar250

You are right, the unselected side, even with stock bulbs, does "light up" (pass current) by way of the dash bulb but the amount of current (because of the resistance of dash bulb) is so little that the F & R bulb filaments don't get hot enough to glow. Incandescent bulb filaments increase their resistance as they increase in temp so a non-glowing (cold) bulb filament acts as a piece of wire. This is not the case with efficient LED bulbs. The 3.7w dash bulb passes plenty of current to light up most LED signals.

Hmm. The dash indicator must have particularly high resistance.

Anyway, I think I've figured out how to wire in auxiliary brake and running lights and have the original ones shut off while the blinkers are active (useful for those with cheap integrated tail lights). If I wire a series of brake lights and a series of running lights I can then use a relay with a couple diodes to create a switched common ground after the first bulb in each set.

Will this work? Will the power still light up the second light in each series when the turn signal triggered the relay to open a path to ground just before it? There is a voltage drop from the diodes.

About the diagram:
LTS = Left Turn Signals
RTS = Right Turn Signals
DI = Dash Indicator
R = Running Light
AR = Auxiliary Running Light
B = Brake Light
AB = Auxiliary Brake Light

The switch at the top represents both brake light switches.
The stock flasher relay needs to be replaced with a three-pole LED flasher relay (bottom one) so that the power going to it is constant when the turn signal signal switch selects a direction and stops when the selection is canceled. This will be the trigger for the second relay (top one). With a stock flasher this would be an intermittent trigger, which would only make the lights I want to kill for the duration flash instead.
So, the top relay is triggered when the turn signals are flashing and makes a new ground for AB and AR before B and R. It's still connected to B and R, bt my understanding is that electricity takes the shortest path of least resistance. That said, the voltage drop across the diodes may mean it isn't the path of least resistance.

[kevlar250]

First are all the lights going to be LED? A 3 terminal flasher (they really are not relays) will not give a constant output when activated, they still flash. You can use the flashing output with 2 diodes, a capacitor and relay to get a constant latched output but it would take a bit of engineering. You should still do the diode mod to the dash bulb first to get that problem out of the way before attempting any other mods to the circuit.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by kevlar250

First are all the lights going to be LED? A 3 terminal flasher (they really are not relays) will not give a constant output when activated, they still flash. You can use the flashing output with 2 diodes, a capacitor and relay to get a constant latched output but it would take a bit of engineering. You should still do the diode mod to the dash bulb first to get that problem out of the way before attempting any other mods to the circuit.

Thanks for the input. They won't all be LEDs, but I will do the diode mod if need be. I only showed the dash and blinkers so that it was obvious what that switch did and showed incandescent bulbs everywhere to minimize distraction. I know that the output is intermittent, but the trigger for the new relay comes from the power going into the existing three-prong Tridon EP34 relay I already have (the integrated tail light is LED). It doesn't work if it isn't grounded, so I assume that it alternates between going to the lights and grounding through the third prong and, thus, power going into it should be a constant trigger that just alternates where it finds ground (to the bulbs or to the grounded third prong) and quits as soon as the signal switch is canceled. I imagine that there may be a moment when power stops as it mechanically switches if it isn't done the way I show in my diagram (the two power wires I show going into it would actually be split internally after a common/shared terminal). A capacitor may smooth that out, but I wouldn't know what type or spec and would only do that if the flashing were noticeable.

Yeah, a flasher relay isn't a relay in the sense that it is not an electrically triggered switch that activates another electrical switch, but you could say that even a thermal two-prong relay is a relay because it is an electrically triggered mechanical switch (heats up, breaks contact, cools down, makes contact). It's the same "electrical triggers mechanical" switch function only it's tied back to the same electrical trigger.

[kevlar250]

Originally Posted by CZroe

I know that the output is intermittent, but the trigger for the new relay comes from the power going into the existing three-prong Tridon EP34 relay I already have (the integrated tail light is LED). It doesn't work if it isn't grounded, so I assume that it alternates between going to the lights and grounding through the third prong and, thus, power going into it should be a constant trigger that just alternates where it finds ground (to the bulbs or to the grounded third prong) and quits as soon as the signal switch is canceled. I imagine that there may be a moment when power stops as it mechanically switches if it isn't done the way I show in my diagram (the two power wires I show going into it would actually be split internally after a common/shared terminal). A capacitor may smooth that out, but I wouldn't know what type or spec and would only do that if the flashing were noticeable.

Sorry but your system will not work.
Power into your new flasher or the old flasher is constant when the key is on, it does not turn on/off with the turn signal switch. You can not power the flasher through the coil of your new relay as the coil resistance is too high. The only practical way to get a wire that turns hot when using the blinkers is after the switch and then you will need a pair of diodes so you can get the hot wire turning L or R. Wish I had more time but I'm putting a remote start in a CRV

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by kevlar250

Sorry but your system will not work.
Power into your new flasher or the old flasher is constant when the key is on, it does not turn on/off with the turn signal switch.

Except that is has no ground until you do, so it functionally does turn on and off with the turn signal selection switch, right?

Originally Posted by kevlar250

You can not power the flasher through the coil of your new relay as the coil resistance is too high. The only practical way to get a wire that turns hot when using the blinkers is after the switch and then you will need a pair of diodes so you can get the hot wire turning L or R. Wish I had more time but I'm putting a remote start in a CRV

If the flasher will not work behind the relay, then I guess I do have a problem, but it seems that I'd have the same issue with the relay further down the line (not enough power to trigger after flasher and signals; plus the integrated tail light only has a common ground). Would the EP34 really need that much going into it? Could I tie the running light output that would go to ground to the flasher instead? If so, the only problem I see would be if the EP34 has constant power to frame ground through the third terminal when the signals are canceled (not possible with the original flasher; not likely with this one).

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Except that is has no ground until you do, so it functionally does turn on and off with the turn signal selection switch, right?

Yes... but you're always better to cut the hot line so the circuit is not hot.

Hot circuits spark when you suddenly apply a ground

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Yes... but you're always better to cut the hot line so the circuit is not hot.

Hot circuits spark when you suddenly apply a ground

Yeah, but that would happen inside the relay when it switch back just the same, right? Also, it would require a relay in each series.

[choneofakind]

Not sure tbh, I just know that when you jump a car, you get sparks if you connect the hot wires first, but you don't get sparks if you connect the ground wire first.

[kevlar250]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Except that is has no ground until you do, so it functionally does turn on and off with the turn signal selection switch, right?

Your 3 prong always has a ground, and it always takes a bit of juice to run the current-sensing circuit inside of it as long as the key's on, it just does not have any current flow from the output terminal until the turn sig switch selects a side. That current flow starts it to oscillate on/off.

Originally Posted by CZroe

If the flasher will not work behind the relay, then I guess I do have a problem, but it seems that I'd have the same issue with the relay further down the line (not enough power to trigger after flasher and signals; plus the integrated tail light only has a common ground). Would the EP34 really need that much going into it? Could I tie the running light output that would go to ground to the flasher instead? If so, the only problem I see would be if the EP34 has constant power to frame ground through the third terminal when the signals are canceled (not possible with the original flasher; not likely with this one).

The EP34 needs as much going into it as you plan on getting out of it plus a tiny bit more to run it's internal oscillator. Don't start messing with the grounds. Ground everything that should be grounded and do the dash ind. diode mod. That will isolate the sides and allow you to use an LED for the dash if you wish.

Here's a simple drawing of what you need. You will need a relay that has a higher coil resistance than your standard bosch-type automotive relay. And the capacitor will need to be 1000 to 2000uf / 16 to 50 VDC. I will do a little R & D and see what works. The relay will latch on whenever you call either turn signal. I'm still not clear exactly how you want the aux. lights to work but this should get you started.
Attachment 21466

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by kevlar250

Your 3 prong always has a ground, and it always takes a bit of juice to run the current-sensing circuit inside of it as long as the key's on, it just does not have any current flow from the output terminal until the turn sig switch selects a side. That current flow starts it to oscillate on/off.



The EP34 needs as much going into it as you plan on getting out of it plus a tiny bit more to run it's internal oscillator. Don't start messing with the grounds. Ground everything that should be grounded and do the dash ind. diode mod. That will isolate the sides and allow you to use an LED for the dash if you wish.

Here's a simple drawing of what you need. You will need a relay that has a higher coil resistance than your standard bosch-type automotive relay. And the capacitor will need to be 1000 to 2000uf / 16 to 50 VDC. I will do a little R & D and see what works. The relay will latch on whenever you call either turn signal. I'm still not clear exactly how you want the aux. lights to work but this should get you started.
Attachment 21466

The attachment isn't working, but thanks! To clarify, this is the result I'm aiming for:

[kevlar250]

Not sure why the link did'n work. this may work better
turn sig relay.jpg

[kevlar250]

CZroe, I've found the parts that make it work if you're still thinking of doing the mod. I can give you Radio Shack part #'s or I could build it for you for a modest price. Let me know.

[tyfmorgan]

I have an 89 ninja 250. I installed L.E.D lights, the correct flasher relay and then I followed the instructions (to the letter) and made my diode. It didn't work. I thought maybe I had fried the diodes or something, so I re-did it. It still didn't work. So I did it again with stronger diodes. It still didn't work. So I undid the wiring back to normal and installed stock turn signals, and my turn signals work fine again. So I reinstalled the L.E.Ds and temporarily installed RESISTORS and it worked fine. So I retried making the diode a third time and it was a failure again. Can anyone help me with this ? I am no electrician but I know my way around motorcycle wiring. I am completely confused as to why this won't work for me when everyone is saying it worked fine for them.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by tyfmorgan

I have an 89 ninja 250. I installed L.E.D lights, the correct flasher relay and then I followed the instructions (to the letter) and made my diode. It didn't work. I thought maybe I had fried the diodes or something, so I re-did it. It still didn't work. So I did it again with stronger diodes. It still didn't work. So I undid the wiring back to normal and installed stock turn signals, and my turn signals work fine again. So I reinstalled the L.E.Ds and temporarily installed RESISTORS and it worked fine. So I retried making the diode a third time and it was a failure again. Can anyone help me with this ? I am no electrician but I know my way around motorcycle wiring. I am completely confused as to why this won't work for me when everyone is saying it worked fine for them.

Did you buy a diode kit like the link in the OP, or did you just get two plain diodes to wire in yourself?