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Old September 28th, 2014, 08:07 AM   #1
Timr
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Need more tire edge

So I have hurt the bike again. I put it down after hitting the peg a while ago so i raised them almost another inch and solved that problem but now have another one. After I put it down again and suspected I rode off the edge as I was balling up the edge before i lifted the pegs of the tire I put a cam on pointed at the bottom of the tire and checked it out after i dropped it again (R.I.P. Contour cam ) and sure enough it looks like I ran out of rubber.
I have tried getting off the bike more but i literally cant i have been getting my entire ass off on most corners. I have been running BT003's and i really enjoy using them, the let me slide it a bit and still grip really well, they are also about the best tire i easily get in a 140 wide.

So just wondering what everyone else is using, if anyone else is having this problem, or any other ideas that might help. I have even been looking into if i can get some moto3 type slicks in 140 wide.
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Old September 28th, 2014, 08:27 AM   #2
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Hmmm.... hard to say exactly but let's give it a go.

First off, getting your bum too far off the seat may not or doesn't help as it much as it hurts. This would be rider dependant though, we all have seen some MotoGP guys nearly completely off the bike. But for us mere mortals, we might want a more conservative approach. Next along the same lines, getting too far off can make your grip on the bars too tight as you may lose your good lock on the bike. So when the 003's let loose, the tightness on the bars can make it harder for them to regrip or cause a slip where there would normally NOT be one. I speak from experience here, as 003's used to be my tire of choice. Isn't their loose grip awesomely fun though?

Next thing is very, very, very subtle but important. When you hang off to lessen the lean angle, do you still subconsciously use the same amount of lean anyway? I ask because I noticed that about my riding some time ago. I was in error trying to chase "Peanut's" (talented ninjette member) super duper lean angle on his 250. I wanted to be able to do the same. Let me tell ya, hanging off but not increasing lean is a hard mental thing to get over. Everything in my head was telling me to turn and lean to make the corner. Allowing the riders weight to do some of the cornering work takes some specific time and attention to skill building.

Next, the "pick up". In all honesty, I try to spend as little time at max lean as possible. Why is that you think? What are the benefits?

For completeness, I have to ask about what rearsets you have. Stock? Woodcraft? After each track session, if there are pics available, I review them specifically for "low hanging bits". To me, it falls into the category of "an ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure".

Bike Geometry, many of us racers here have raised the tail of the bike about an inch for added lean clearance. Have you put any thought into that aspect of your setup?

Lastly, let's quickly address tires. The tire you run can be a fickle thing. I have been beaten by lesser riders on 003's and have nearly lapped better riders on better equipment while myself running 003's. In the end, it just became too sketchy for me at the edge of crashing every session/race to continue my relationship with the 003's. I swapped to DRII's (front and rear) for a time and the same love hate relationship happened but only with the front. I eventually swapped the front for a 110 supercorsa but... I will be changing that to a 120 next season as a personal preference thing.

Speed: Interestingly enough, I ran some of my best times on a stock bike with 003's. If "I" could just get them to grip just a bit more at full on race and lap record paces. With my current setup, I leave the track with about 2mm of chicken strip still there. What pace are you trying to push the 003's to?
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Old September 28th, 2014, 08:35 AM   #3
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Also, one other thing. Check your turn in points. If you're turning in too early, you may feel the need to use much lean. What would a later turn in with a quicker flick (steering rate) do to your line and lean angle needed to make the corner? How about how long you spend at max lean?
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Old September 28th, 2014, 03:21 PM   #4
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Start with the simple stuff.

Butt off, head over the middle of the bike = crossed up.

Are you crossed up?

The point of getting off the bike is to move the center of gravity of rider plus bike, so the bike can stand up more.

Your head weighs as much as a bowling ball. And that's just your head. What do you think your upper body weighs?

Think about that for a minute. What should you be focusing on with your body position?

I was watching MotoGP today and studying body position. I noticed that when Marquez is off the bike, you can see the freakin' gas cap under his armpit. His upper body is COMPLETELY to the inside of the bike centerline.
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Old September 28th, 2014, 07:41 PM   #5
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140 will allow fairing scraping and elbow down (provided pegs are high and rearward)
Something is wrong.
Need pics of your BP.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 06:24 AM   #6
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I think the rear 140 003RS is one of the better rear tires I have ridden on, no real complaints that are not related to to ME .... its never the tire lol. The front 003RS to me really did feel like garbage though compared to the 003 Pro I was running in conjunction with the rear. The supercorsa front is really supposed to be the ticket too but man they are pricey.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 02:49 PM   #7
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Everything has its limit. You reached the lean angle limit.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 03:47 PM   #8
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show pics of BP.

you can run over the edge of the 003 onto the sidewall on good asphalt and suspension. a 140 DR2 works better for me on the edge of the tire.

what is your rear height from stock?
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Old September 29th, 2014, 04:00 PM   #9
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I am pretty happy with my body positioning its not perfect but its not that bad these days, being 6 foot 2 (and a bit fat) i look a bit like a gorilla on it, but i will try and get some pics any way. I work a fair bit with another club member as he is an excellent rider and even had a moto2 wildcard, i also did some coaching sessions with Cameron Donald and that was one of the things he picked up and we worked a fair bit on it he even suggested getting that far off to reduce lean angle.
I am very conscientious of not using unnecessary lean in the corners and use my lines to help with that, that was another thing Cam mentioned was that my lines where excellent.

The rear set I am using are made by a local company called Wet4U Racing (yes that is their name) and the tend to be the rear set of choice for most of the guys running ninjas in the Australian 250 production series and the Australian ninja 300 cup. i really like them but i did shorten the pegs a bit for more clearance.

as for speed i think i am pushing them pretty hard. At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baskerville_Raceway My bet lap is a 66.8 second lap and am running round at the same times as the midpack 600cc's i am probably the second fastest 250 behind the the guy who has won the last 2 600 state titles on his rs250.

and "good ashphelt" it is not... it is way over due for resurfacing to the point a foundation has been set up to raise money for it as the owners can't afford it.

rear height is stock because that is what the class rules dictate there is very few chnges allowed to the bike as it is supposed to be a "budget" class.

One of the other club members is a tire distributor one being bridgstone (which is why i have been using the BT003's) and a few others and he has been trying to help me work it out as well.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 04:08 PM   #10
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can you run slicks instead?
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Old September 29th, 2014, 05:16 PM   #11
Timr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex.s View Post
can you run slicks instead?
I have been trying to find some but i can't seem to find some the right size. there would be some but i haven't found them. i would like to get some gpa's like i have on the 600 but they don't come that small.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 05:23 PM   #12
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pirelli supercorsa 2? comes in 120 and 90 doesnt it?

if i remember right the quick guys here are running 120 rear and a 90 front v profile moto3 spec tires.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 05:33 PM   #13
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Ah nice, I didn't realize they came in those sizes. a mate uses them on his Daytona and thinks they are great. according to their web site the smallest they come in are 140.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 05:48 PM   #14
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http://www.pirelli.com/mediaObject/p...DB2013_low.pdf
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Old September 29th, 2014, 05:49 PM   #15
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17
100/70 r 17 nhs tl
sc12242600

115/70 r 17 nhs tl
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Old October 1st, 2014, 08:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex.s View Post
pirelli supercorsa 2? comes in 120 and 90 doesnt it?

if i remember right the quick guys here are running 120 rear and a 90 front v profile moto3 spec tires.
I ran a Bridgstone slick 120 both front and rear FWIW but I'm not one of the fast guys but I also had plenty of front and good turn in
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Old October 8th, 2014, 02:45 PM   #17
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I rode a bike with Bridgestone BT003RS tires. I much prefer a Pirelli Diablo Rosso II rear (140/70/17 H rated) and a DOT or slick front (120/70/17) . You can run a Rosso II front tire, but the I feel I was reaching its limits having it skid and saving front end slides. I was running 2:10s at Chuckwalla at that pace. Slower than that the Rosso II fronts felt solid. One of the CVMA racers ran a 2:08 on the Rosso II front and rear and he switched back to Bridgestone 125GP slicks. I told him to next time try a DOT or slick front in a 120 size and see if he likes it. ...or even a 110/70/17 front in a DOT or slick
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