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Old September 18th, 2013, 12:36 AM   #1
ninjawing
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ninja 250 starting issue

Hi all!

There probably already is threads like this that i didnt find.

Sooo my problem is, I got a 2008 ninja 250R(FI), I been riding it for almost 2 years now and lately i been getting some issues with starting.
(the bike has been in to get it's VDS replaced)
I ride just about every day to work and back with it, and strangely on Friday the 13th it just did not want to start as i had to get to work. I checked fuel, cutout switch, sidestand, every thing I did normaly like every other day I ride it but just no luck starting.
Later that day I get home and go check if the bike will start, and it started without issues. I checked the day after and the next day and it just started no problem. Monday comes and again no problem starting, ride to work and back no problem.
The next day I get to the bike, just before I gear up I check for start and no problem turned it off and go gear up(5mins later) get to bike ready to ride, and no start... nothing... it turns over but no start.

Have anyone gotten anything like this? My minds gone blank and just got no clue why this is happening. I love my little bike but its really annoying and frustrating when it dont want to start.

ANY help will be much appreciated.
2013-07-29 18.49.58.jpg
my ninja
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Old September 18th, 2013, 04:40 AM   #2
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First, check the current charge level of the battery.
Then put a good charge on the battery.
Ensure the bike is keeping it charged by checking stator output.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 04:41 AM   #3
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Old September 18th, 2013, 05:24 AM   #4
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Welcome to our site, Joe !!!

As pointed above, your battery should measure 12.6~12.8 volts with engine and lights off.

Very important: While cranking to start, the voltage of a healthy battery will not drop below 10 volts.

If your battery as good as new, one of our FI experts will post here soon to further help you.

If you read a post from @choneofakind, pay close attention to what he said.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 05:28 AM   #5
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How many miles on the bike, and have you had the valve clearance checked at the recommended intervals?
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Old September 18th, 2013, 06:36 AM   #6
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A F.I. bike will do odd things if the battery voltage is low, so do check it to confirm it's in the normal range. Checking the voltage while cranking it over will give you the best indication of the strength of the battery. I'd say if it was under 11V it's not up to par.

The next thing would be fuel - how old is it? Has the tank been low for an extended period of time? Could there be condensation from temperature changes? If there's any question, always start your trouble-shooting with fresh fuel. An occasional dose of fuel system cleaner like Techron Concentrate (not sure what you can get there) at 1oz per gal never hurts either.

Also check the air filter and snorkel to confirm everything is in order.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 07:32 AM   #7
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I'm by no means an expert here. I've dabbled a bit into FI on my bike, that's it.

I will confirm that FI does strange things when the battery is low. Try jumping off a 12v battery (like a *car battery* or lawn mower battery that is known to be good. If your bike works perfectly while being jumped, the issue is your battery.

Also, @akima had some issues with her OEM FI ninjette a while back. I believe it needed a second priming squirt to start in cold weather. If the issue isn't the battery, try cycling the key on an off a second time when it gives you trouble.

As suggested, check the intake for blockages/dirty filter as well. Those are simple things that can really make starting your bike a pain.


*only the battery or a non-running car. Never ever jump your ninjette off of a running car. The excess voltage provided from the car's alternator has the ability to fry the diodes in your charging system.*
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Old September 18th, 2013, 07:32 AM   #8
ninjawing
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Thanx for all the suggestions so far.

I'm not all that clued up mechanically yet, so i cant understand how it could be battery trouble but ill check in non the less.

Talking fuel, i fill up about every other 2 weeks or so, so the fuel never sits too long in the tank. I did run some fuel cleaner a few weeks ago actually. Unfortunately my poor bike sleeps outside(under his blanky) so there is temperature changes during the night but i always started perfectly in the morning no matter how cold it was. Only now suddenly its acting up.

I did recently change my sparkplugs the NGK CR8E that was in, i changed to a CR9E because i couldnt get CR8E plugs, i talked to a mechanic and he said it will work fine. And it have been running fine till now

It just blows my mind how the bike can start perfectly when i check before i gear up and 5mins later its not going anywhere

Thanks again for all the inputs so far

some more pics.
2013-05-05 12.13.54.jpg

2013-07-14 19.14.43.jpg

2013-06-30 15.42.57.jpg

2013-07-29 18.53.54.jpg
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Old September 18th, 2013, 07:40 AM   #9
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The reason that the battery could be your issue is because your bike is run by an electrical system that won't fire unless certain criteria (like battery voltage) are met.

Think about it; you have an ecu, 2 injectors, secondary butterfly servo, a fuel pump, a throttle sensor, an oxygen sensor (which has to be warmed up with a coil), a manifold pressure sensor, an air density sensor, an engine temp sensor, and a flywheel sensor all being used to sense what your engine needs and keep it running. That's a lot of electrical load, especially during a startup. If your battery is low enough that the ecu either gets low voltage or decides it hasn't met the 'start' criteria, your bike won't start, no matter how long you crank it.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 07:40 AM   #10
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When my R6 had a bum battery, it would start and run just fine. I would shut it down and try to start it back and no dice. If I were to wait 20 mins, it would start right up. Dead/weak batteries do strange crap to bikes. It's the nature of these machines.

It's wise to invest in a battery tender and charger.

Now... I have to ask the obvious here, I see that you have installed leds. Did this problem start around the same time as that install? Might it be possible that the draw from the battery to power those are less than friendly to your battery in relation to your bike's ability to keep your battery properly charged? 2+2=4, See the relation? Turn your leds off and see if your battery keeps it charge.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 07:48 AM   #11
ninjawing
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TBH i have hardly turned the leds on alot its kinda off most of the time since it have no effect during the day and i havnt been out at night much to turn them on.
Its been some time since i installed the led. the starting issue only started this past friday.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 09:11 AM   #12
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So i got home after work today, went to the bike and started it no problems. Turned it off, check the battery charge, its at 12.6, start bike again and it goes no problem, battery dropped to 10.6 or something there it was to quick to catch it.
I let the bike idle for like a min and turned it off. Check volts at 13 dropping slowly to 12.9 and stopped. Started bike again and volts dropped to 11.something and toke it for a quick ride around the block and no funny business everything is normal.

So it doesnt seem to be battery related.

(p.s my leds are off)
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Old September 18th, 2013, 09:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjawing View Post
Unfortunately my poor bike sleeps outside(under his blanky) so there is temperature changes during the night but i always started perfectly in the morning no matter how cold it was. Only now suddenly its acting up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjawing View Post
So i got home after work today, went to the bike and started it no problems. Turned it off, check the battery charge, its at 12.6, start bike again and it goes no problem, battery dropped to 10.6 or something there it was to quick to catch it.
I let the bike idle for like a min and turned it off. Check volts at 13 dropping slowly to 12.9 and stopped. Started bike again and volts dropped to 11.something and toke it for a quick ride around the block and no funny business everything is normal.

So it doesnt seem to be battery related.

(p.s my leds are off)
It's possible you have condensation built-up and water sitting in the bottom of the tank that is occasionally drawn into the petcock pick-up. Have you run on reserve lately? Can you get gas without Ethanol?

Also, the plugs you have now (9s) are colder than stock, and aren't going to help the situation any. I'd get a set of 8s back in there before doing much else. Colder plugs are used for sustained high RPM running or with engines that are producing more power than stock.

Battery certainly could be the issue here, but there are a few other things that may be contributing to the problem.

EDIT: If the battery is reading < 11V - not while cranking - it's not enough.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 09:19 AM   #14
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hmmm.... Possibly not then.

Try the red-neck charging system test;

Pull the bike up to a wall at night, note how bright the headlight is at idle and slowly speed the engine up. At some point, probably 1,800-2,500 rpm, the light will suddenly brighten. If it does, your charging system is most likely fine and you better be looking at the battery first. If it doesn't brighten, then the stator is probably shorting out or something else is going on.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 09:43 AM   #15
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My ninjette just doesn't like the cold. As soon as it gets below 0 degrees Celsius starting the bike becomes more temperamental. Chone's prime twice technique makes it much more likely she will start in cold weather. When the ambient temperature rises above 0 my ninjette is fine again.

I've just decided to stop using my ninjette over winter now anyway. It's actually the salt they put on the roads that has made me stop: It does so much damage.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 03:17 AM   #16
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hi all!
I'v not been on for awhile, thnx for all the tips and advice! I finaly got around to changing my spark plugs from 9s i had in coz i couldnt get 8s but i did find some 8s this past weekend and put them in.

So the ninja got its 8s back in and its running perfect again. (or atleast so far it is) lets hope its keep behaving now
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Old October 1st, 2013, 04:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjawing View Post
hi all!
I'v not been on for awhile, thnx for all the tips and advice! I finaly got around to changing my spark plugs from 9s i had in coz i couldnt get 8s but i did find some 8s this past weekend and put them in.

So the ninja got its 8s back in and its running perfect again. (or atleast so far it is) lets hope its keep behaving now
That's good news!

Is anyone in here (probably chone) able to explain in simple terms what the difference between CR9E and CR8E spark plugs are and why the CR9E plugs caused this issue? I'm curious!
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Old October 1st, 2013, 06:58 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by akima View Post
That's good news!

Is anyone in here (probably chone) able to explain in simple terms what the difference between CR9E and CR8E spark plugs are and why the CR9E plugs caused this issue? I'm curious!
The difference is the heat range - the length of the heat path and how much heat is retained by the plug.

When you are running constant high RPMs or making more power than stock you typically drop to a colder plug because you are building more heat than "normal".

I'm not sure that the colder-than-stock plug caused the problems here, but it didn't help either.

Here's NGK's full explanation of heat range - http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_su...k_plugs/p2.asp
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Old October 1st, 2013, 07:12 AM   #19
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@jkv45: Great information, thanks.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 09:17 AM   #20
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2010 Ninja.... Bike only starts with choke on. Doesn't matter if
Bike is warmed up or not. Always start with full choke. In cold weather ride with choke on til warmed up. In hot weather ride with choke on til warms up. This also causes higher Rpm and a little practice especially at red lights. It's noisy and draws attention. Lower choke until green and then full choke through intersection. Why because the bike isn't smart enough to calculate temperature at or close to the exact temp to run when warmed up. (Where carb has been factory adjusted) Computer only knows how to mix fuel at warmed up temp. When bike is completely warmed up and fuel mixture is correct without choke. Then changing any adjustment of the carburetor may allow easier starting when cold meaning less choke required, but air fuel will be incorrect once warmed up. Clogged air filter seems to make problem worse changing the fire triangle and ride with the air cleaner box cover loosely tightened.My observation FI may be different

Last futzed with by JAG; October 1st, 2013 at 11:22 AM.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 10:17 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by JAG View Post
2010 Ninja.... Bike only starts with choke on. Doesn't matter if
Bike is warmed up or not.
Always start with full choke. In cold weather ride with choke on til warmed up. In hot weather ride with choke on til warms up. Why because the bike isn't smart enough to calculate temperature at or close to the exact temp to run when warmed up. (Where carb has been factory adjusted) Computer only knows how to mix fuel at warmed up temp. When bike is completely warmed up and fuel mixture is correct without choke. Then changing any adjustment of the carburetor may allow easier starting when cold meaning less choke required, but air fuel will be incorrect once warmed up. Clogged air filter seems to make problem worse changing the fire triangle and ride with the air cleaner box cover loosely tightened.My observation FI may be different
No computer is making mixture decisions with a carbed bike.

On a F.I. engine the computer does know the outside and water temps (and usually quite a bit more), and adjusts the mixture accordingly.

It sounds like the pilot jets are partially plugged or the idle mixture is very lean. Typically the choke can come off after a minute or 2. You shouldn't need the choke to start a warm engine if the idle mixture is correct. All adjustments to the carb should be made with the engine fully warm.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 10:33 AM   #22
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Computer Advancing timing on cold engine?
What is the adjustment because everything on carburetor
Is sealed or would require removal to adjust internally. If the idle at operating
Temp is off starting with throttle applied may help. These are issues I've discovered.
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