What's this knocking sound?

[Seattle_Chris]

Things I've been thinking it could be.
Cam Chain and/or Tension arm.
Valves.
Chain (as in the one that goes to the back wheel).
Something BAD in the transmission.

I'm rather partial to it being the chain. Of course.

It's a knocking sound I get under hard acceleration, especially at lower RPM/Gears. As in when it's lugging.
I can't tell where it's coming from other that it's NOT above me.
I can feel the knock in the left footpeg a little as well.
When it happens REALLY bad, it's being lugged like a mofo.
It sounds like rocks in a tin can being shaken when it happens.
At higher RPM/Gears I can feel it only, can't hear it.
If I take off nice and easy and slow, it doesn't happen. Or at least not nearly as much.
It happens in all gear, but it's less noticeable in each. In sixth, I may be imagining it. In first, it sounds pretty scary.
I can rev the engine hard/high in Neutral, and it doesn't happen.
The sound does accelerate with RPM, but RPM also = road speed.
Sound does NOT seem to be a direct 1:1 with RPM.

I'm SO not a mechanic, as should be obvious by now. But here's two more things making me think it may be the chain. I just don't know if it's POSSIBLE for the chain/sprockets to make this noise.

When I cleaned/lubed/adjusted the chain in the fall, the noise lessened.
When I park the front tire up against a wall, and replicate it, it won't happen. It ONLY happens when the bike is in motion.

So the question REALLY is, can this racket be coming from the chain? And if so, who makes a good replacement chain? Something good and strong.

It's a 2009 with 10,ooo miles. HARD miles. With a fat guy. And a lot of it with a fat guy AND camping gear.


EDIT: I can't get it to make the sound Decelerating at all. coasting, braking, or compression braking. Which makes me wonder if it's chain related at all. Oh, and rods. Could I be losing a rod?

[alex.s]

chain

[Seattle_Chris]

YAY! I know you know your stuff, so I'm gonna run with that!

[alex.s]

take a photo of it, i want a good laugh. you can tell if its the chain by looking at it. are the teeth straight? or are they curved like shark teeth? is the chain smooth and proper tensioned? or is it partially stretched and the tension gets tighter and softer. does it have any stuck links? rust on the outside isn't horrible... the orings and the bearing inside that matters.. rust on the outside can be an indicator of the condition on the inside though.

[DaBlue1]

Does your chain Look like this?
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/attac...3&d=1361386423

Post up a pic and a video of the sound your bike is making.
Also check the condition/level of your oil. Try not to lug the engine in lower rpms (especially under load), it make it's power better @ higher rpms. That's why it's knocking. You need to keep your rpms up to avoid lower oil pressure and mechanical strain on the engine.

[Seattle_Chris]

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...8535457?cfem=1

I think that will take you to an album that I'm uploading. I'm at work, so just rolled the back a foot or two between pics.

It seems a tad loose, and I THINK it may tension a tiny bit. Like 1/8th of an inch or so. It can almost reach the swingarm. Probably would touch with a tad more oomph.

[mlj2093]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Does your chain Look like this?
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/attac...3&d=1361386423

That Chain looks familiar.

IMO your chain looks fairly tight and clean.

[Seattle_Chris]

Yeah Dablue, I get that you SHOULDN'T lug it. But this isn't a normal noise. The previous 10k miles went by without it. It's one of those WTF is that noises.

I'll TRY to get sound of it on the way home, but other noises are gonna make it a pain. May have to break out the zoom h4n and mic. and rig it up semi-propper to get a good reflection of the noise.

EDIT: not to mention that starting off with ME on it, is always lugging.

[DaBlue1]

Looking at your chain there appears to be a couple of spots that look like rust, but may be a leaky seal. If it is a leaky seal those links may actually be tight and causing your chain to be too tight in that section. In other words your chain may be too loose in one section and too tight in another.

A chain that is kinked may make the bike feel/sound like it's choppy/ surging/ pulsing/ or as you describe it "lugging".

What you can do is measure your chain tension at several different sections on the chain. If you put the bike on a rear stand and turn the rear wheel, you should not run into much resistance or the chain drop or raise up too much.


http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/moto...mc_chains.html

[Seattle_Chris]

Ok, nobody is jumping to THATS A CRANK or anything, and chains are fairly cheap and DIY even for ME! So I'll just grab a new chain and see how that goes. Is there a favorite chain amongst the hordes?

Oh, and I'm uploading a video of the inside of my jacket pocket. At 3 mins in you can kinda hear it. I'll edit this with a link when it's up.

EDIT: if it IS the chain, why doesn't it make the noise at all times?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by Seattle_Chris

...Ok, nobody is jumping to THATS A CRANK or anything

...if it IS the chain, why doesn't it make the noise at all times?

Not so fast....That's why you need to check your oil. The tell tale sign of bearing damage will be brassy looking metal shavings in the oil. If you can't hear it at idle or the sound is convoluted with other noise, this is the other way to rule it out.

After a certain speed there is less torque on the chain so it doesn't make noise or sound like it's surging or choppy. The noise is going to be more noticeable with torque on the chain. Heavy weight and lugging the engine exacerbates the problem.

[alex.s]

put it on a rear stand in neutral, spin the rear wheel by hand. does it go bang bang pop bang snap? does it sound smooth? keep it on the rear stand and turn it on. rev it. still smooth? ok. put it in gear on the rear stand and use the engine to get the wheel going. still smooth?

caution: don't cut your fingers off

[DaBlue1]

This Ninja actually had bad bearings. Hopefully yours sounds nothing like it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OgBeCttHCw

Attached you'll see the metal shaving from the damage.

[Seattle_Chris]

Here's the video. Just skip to 3 mins in. It's the sound that doesn't sound like it belongs. Like someones banging the camera around or something. That's it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FCQtbGH6C4

Up on a stand it doesn't happen. It has to be under actual load. I just went out and verified. It sounds pretty chainy/rattley though. This is my only ninja though, so I'm not sure what normal is. Only other bike is a shaft drive ural.

And it started in the fall, right before I packed it up for winter, and I did a oil change at the same time as I do every year. Nothing stood out as being weird. All those shaving would surely have made me do a OMFGWTF!!!.

Could the rear wheel being out of alignment contribute to this? I did the string alignment thing last summer, and it LOOKS good.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by Seattle_Chris

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...8535457?cfem=1

....It seems a tad loose, and I THINK it may tension a tiny bit. Like 1/8th of an inch or so. It can almost reach the swingarm. Probably would touch with a tad more oomph.

Check your chain tension again in several spots. Make it closer to 1.0 inches

Originally Posted by Seattle_Chris

....And it started in the fall, right before I packed it up for winter, and I did a oil change at the same time as I do every year. Nothing stood out as being weird.

What type of oil do you use?
Looking at the front sprocket I see a little bare metal. Is that the stock sprocket? What condition is that front sprocket in?
This question may sound funny....but how much do you weigh and what is your rear shock set too?

[Seattle_Chris]

Sorry for the long pause there. The weekend was CRAZY busy.

I weight a tad over 300. Yeah, gotta look a fool, but I loves me some zoom zoom.

I use Rotella T. Forget the weight, but it's what's recommended here. Usually change it twice a year. Once when breaking out the bike for proper use, and once shortly before packing it in for the winter.

I believe both pre's are set to four, because I couldn't get them any higher.

I think the sprockets look fine, but I don't know what I'm looking at. A few people that have seen those pics think the chain is stretching because of where the metal is showing on 'em. Not sharks teeth YET though.

Totally original chain and sprockets. It's been my first bike, and MOST of the miles are HARD miles. WAY overloaded, road tripping! I'm just gonna order up a chain/sprocket set and see how that goes.

[alex.s]

do you really wear that hello kitty helmet? its pretty dope. i'd definitely wave to that helmet.

[Seattle_Chris]

LOL, no, if I had it, I probably would though. But most of my helmets are black/grey/camo and very matte.

[alex.s]

i think you should put a hello kitty on your helmet anyway.

[broilmebk]

Were you able to solve this problem?

[red5]

I bet it was opportunity.