White "Stuff" in the oil

Sailariel · March 11th, 2010, 01:16 PM

De-winterized the bike the other day--fresh gas in the tank, warmed up the bike and changed the oil and filter ( I use Rotella-T Synthetic). I took the bike out for a 30mile ride and the bike performed fine without a hiccup. When I got back home, I noticed that my sight glass was white. I waited for the bike to cool down a bit, opened up the oil cap and saw some white paste--a very small amount--in the cap. There were also some droplets that looked like water. I ran my finger around the oil tank and came up with some white paste as well. I let the bike cool off overnight and took an oil sample in a glass jar (about 6oz) The oil was fine and showed no sign of emulsification with water. During the winter the bike was stored with fresh oil and filter in a heated garage. At its coldest the garage would be 50F. Has anyone had that experience? My suspicion would be that it is condensation, and that running the bike at operating temperature for several hours would probably dissipate the moisture. Since the oil sample was totally clean, I would suspect there would be no harm to the engine if I ran it. The other alternative would be to put the bike on the trailer and haul it to the dealer and let them figuere it out. The bike is still under warranty.

smcbride11 · March 11th, 2010, 01:21 PM

I noticed the same thing today... My Jeep has similar symptoms (on the filler cap, obviously there's no sight glass), and I've been told by mechanics that that's just a product of condensation, typically caused by short trips.

I don't know if there's the same cause on the Ninja or not; I'll have to go out and look at the sight glass later once it's cooled down to see if it's still there.

Sailariel · March 11th, 2010, 01:30 PM

Steve, I was told the same thing by a friend who rides a H-D Sportster. His advice was to wait till tomorrow (Friday) when the temp is predicted to hit 50F and ride hard for a couple of hours. That should heat things up enough to get rid of it. If my oil sample would have had white stuff in it, I would have probably needed to take it to the dealer.

divingtigger · March 11th, 2010, 01:33 PM

Not 100% sure but on our vaccum pumps here at work white stuff is usually water in the oil. But that is usually a white milky consistency

Sailariel · March 11th, 2010, 01:44 PM

Rob, Thanks for the Heads Up. I think that it is definitely water. The trick is to find out how it got there. The most probable cause is condensation. If it were a leak in the block--like a blown head gasket, there would be a reduction in performance, white smoke, and a greyish white color to the oil due to anti freeze intrusion. Another place anti freeze can get into the engine would be if the water pump seal failed allowing coolant into the crank case. This does not look like that scenario.

Momaru · March 11th, 2010, 01:51 PM

Alex, I saw the same white stuff in my sight-glass after a couple cold short rides. Also had a little water condensation on the inside of the oil cap. Like you, I'm almost certain it's just the water condensing out of the air that's in the crankcase, which is relatively little. That said, some hard riding and an oil change took care of the 'issue' and I haven't seen it since.

I've had a head gasket/block leak in my truck that mixed antifreeze and oil. It left a dark greenish frothy mess that was definitely alarming.

Sailariel · March 11th, 2010, 01:57 PM

Paul, Thanks. What you describe is exactly the same syndrome my bike is experiencing. I definitely ruled out a head gasket. I remember all too well, when I was younger, and built a street rod. I thought that if high compression was good, higher compression would be better---went a bit overboard milling the head. The head gasket lasted minutes. We learn all the time.

kkim · March 11th, 2010, 02:07 PM

I'm willing to bet it's residual moisture from condensation. As others have said, go ride the bike to fully warm it up and then see if the situation improves. Also, make sure the problem is not a milky white sight glass.

Sailariel · March 11th, 2010, 02:31 PM

Kelly, I think the white stuff might have stuck to the inside of the glass. It is warming up here---wife is gardening, Daffodils are coming up, and the Maple Syroup people are having a super harvest. Saw a few Robins, and the Red wing Blackbirds are back. We are looking at 50F tomorrow. A two hour ride is definitely in the offing. I really hate winters but don`t want to leave Maine because the people here are so nice.

kkim · March 11th, 2010, 02:41 PM

Alex,

There are nice people wherever you go... even in Hawaii.

Enjoy the ride.

09black250 · March 11th, 2010, 04:38 PM

to all of you, YES, it is moisture. All engines trap some residual moisture inside the crankcase while driving. This is definitely seen more on short trips because the engine does not heat up enough to vaporize it. Over time it can cause "sludge" or "gunk" buildup, but generally it is not a problem.

Some words of wisdom on this topic though. Do not just fire up your bike for others to hear you rev it 3 time then shut it down. While they may think its cool to hear it, it does have adverse effects. The majority of engine wear occurs at engine startup. Also, warm the bike sufficiently before taking it on a short trip. This will prolong the life of your engine and will make it a lot easier not going down the road with the choke still on trying to hurry it up.

just my $.02

Sailariel · March 11th, 2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 09black250

to all of you, YES, it is moisture. All engines trap some residual moisture inside the crankcase while driving. This is definitely seen more on short trips because the engine does not heat up enough to vaporize it. Over time it can cause "sludge" or "gunk" buildup, but generally it is not a problem.

Some words of wisdom on this topic though. Do not just fire up your bike for others to hear you rev it 3 time then shut it down. While they may think its cool to hear it, it does have adverse effects. The majority of engine wear occurs at engine startup. Also, warm the bike sufficiently before taking it on a short trip. This will prolong the life of your engine and will make it a lot easier not going down the road with the choke still on trying to hurry it up.

just my $.02

Nate, You are right. I found that this is especially true for diesels--Have a Suburban Turbo Diesel. When I crank that beast up, I plan to drive at least 45min to an hour lest bad things happen. Looks like the Ninja falls in the same category. I change oil and filter every 3000mi.

250rinblack · March 11th, 2010, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailariel

Kelly, I think the white stuff might have stuck to the inside of the glass. It is warming up here---wife is gardening, Daffodils are coming up, and the Maple Syroup people are having a super harvest. Saw a few Robins, and the Red wing Blackbirds are back. We are looking at 50F tomorrow. A two hour ride is definitely in the offing. I really hate winters but don`t want to leave Maine because the people here are so nice.

Damn I want to live where you do! You can hardly tell the change of seasons here

Momaru · March 11th, 2010, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailariel

Kelly, I think the white stuff might have stuck to the inside of the glass.

Mine did too. Extra annoying as I'd literally just cleaned the inside of the glass the previous week, when I'd had the clutch apart.
I got a little creative (or stupid depending on your perspective) to get rid of it. Warmed the bike up very well and left it running when I came to a rest stop. Got off and leaned it over about 30 degrees to the right while supporting it from low down so I could see the oil completely submerge the sight glass. White muck disappeared in seconds and I changed the oil soon as I got home.

Sailariel · March 12th, 2010, 01:45 PM

Paul, I took the bike out for a 130mi ride---ran great, and no more white stuff. Gave me a chance to try out my new 15T sprocket. I like the bike a whole lot better now. Response in first and second gear is more controlled and the difference is felt in 4,5,6. It was a good mod.

OldGuy · March 12th, 2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailariel

Paul, I took the bike out for a 130mi ride---ran great, and no more white stuff. Gave me a chance to try out my new 15T sprocket. I like the bike a whole lot better now. Response in first and second gear is more controlled and the difference is felt in 4,5,6. It was a good mod.

Alex what do you mean by controlled? Like you can go more than 20 feet before you're wound out in first?

Sailariel · March 12th, 2010, 06:10 PM

Don, That is absolutely right. My problem with the original Ninja gearing was first and second gear. When you traverse an intersection, that is the time you are the most vulnerable to a cager turning in front of you. Most intersections are more than 20 feet long. The last thing I need when crossing an intersection is to concentrate on what some cager is about to do AND shift to second. (This old guy is not too good at multi tasking) The 15T sprocket allows you to get through the intersection with plenty of power, then you pop second, and so on. Also at 60mph to 80mph, the bike does not feel "buzzy" You are still in the sweet spot in your power curve and the bike does not "feel" like it is straining---which you really are not. If you want that high pitched scream, you just drop down a gear.

JMcDonald · November 16th, 2010, 06:56 AM

My sight glass looked like that (fogged up) when I spilled coolant into my engine when removing the valve cover. I got most of it out, but some inevitably stayed in their. I just idled the engine for a few minutes and changed it out.

*edit*

Gah I always do this. Start searching for something and end up posting in a thread I forgot was long dead...

CZroe · November 16th, 2010, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

My sight glass looked like that (fogged up) when I spilled coolant into my engine when removing the valve cover. I got most of it out, but some inevitably stayed in their. I just idled the engine for a few minutes and changed it out.

*edit*

Gah I always do this. Start searching for something and end up posting in a thread I forgot was long dead...

There's nothing wrong with that when you have something to add. If new solutions don't show up in the old problem threads, old unsolved questions pollute the search results for new people with the same problems.

Momaru · November 16th, 2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CZroe

There's nothing wrong with that when you have something to add. If new solutions don't show up in the old problem threads, old unsolved questions pollute the search results for new people with the same problems.

Much agreed! Better to add to an existing thread if you've the same issue than to add to the frequently redundant thread topics. Saves time both for people searching and people trying to help, not having to cross-reference older threads where possible solutions may already exist.

That said J, if you haven't done it already, I'd suggest at least one oil change to pull more of the antifreeze residue out of your engine.

JMcDonald · November 16th, 2010, 05:25 PM

Yeah i was actually getting ready to change it to rotella T6 pretty soon, but i havent been getting the fog since the first change so I wasnt too worried about it. I think i am running too low of oil weight, though, which concerns me far more (I was so in the habit of getting 10w30 for cars that I didnt even think about it and have been running that for the last 2 oil changes instead of some form of 40wt.
Posted via Mobile Device

March 11th, 2010, 01:16 PM	#1
Sailariel ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Alex Location: Belfast, ME Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	White "Stuff" in the oil De-winterized the bike the other day--fresh gas in the tank, warmed up the bike and changed the oil and filter ( I use Rotella-T Synthetic). I took the bike out for a 30mile ride and the bike performed fine without a hiccup. When I got back home, I noticed that my sight glass was white. I waited for the bike to cool down a bit, opened up the oil cap and saw some white paste--a very small amount--in the cap. There were also some droplets that looked like water. I ran my finger around the oil tank and came up with some white paste as well. I let the bike cool off overnight and took an oil sample in a glass jar (about 6oz) The oil was fine and showed no sign of emulsification with water. During the winter the bike was stored with fresh oil and filter in a heated garage. At its coldest the garage would be 50F. Has anyone had that experience? My suspicion would be that it is condensation, and that running the bike at operating temperature for several hours would probably dissipate the moisture. Since the oil sample was totally clean, I would suspect there would be no harm to the engine if I ran it. The other alternative would be to put the bike on the trailer and haul it to the dealer and let them figuere it out. The bike is still under warranty.

March 11th, 2010, 01:33 PM	#4
divingtigger Pedal Power Name: Rob Location: Winterpeg (Winnipeg) Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja EX250R Posts: 401	Not 100% sure but on our vaccum pumps here at work white stuff is usually water in the oil. But that is usually a white milky consistency __________________________________________________ Using Pedal Power

March 11th, 2010, 01:51 PM	#6
Momaru ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Paul Location: Roanoke, VA Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.	Alex, I saw the same white stuff in my sight-glass after a couple cold short rides. Also had a little water condensation on the inside of the oil cap. Like you, I'm almost certain it's just the water condensing out of the air that's in the crankcase, which is relatively little. That said, some hard riding and an oil change took care of the 'issue' and I haven't seen it since. I've had a head gasket/block leak in my truck that mixed antifreeze and oil. It left a dark greenish frothy mess that was definitely alarming. __________________________________________________ Proud member of the Blue Army

November 16th, 2010, 06:56 AM	#18
JMcDonald ninjette.org sage Name: J Location: Oklahoma Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Posts: 771	My sight glass looked like that (fogged up) when I spilled coolant into my engine when removing the valve cover. I got most of it out, but some inevitably stayed in their. I just idled the engine for a few minutes and changed it out. edit Gah I always do this. Start searching for something and end up posting in a thread I forgot was long dead... __________________________________________________ Factory Pro Jet Kit, K&N R-0990 Pod Filter, Sportisi VR Black Exhaust, BRT TIS Ignition, White Paint, and 16/41 Sprockets. Soon: Maybe a 37T Rear Sprocket if I get things running like I'd hoped.

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March 11th, 2010, 01:21 PM	#2
smcbride11 ninjette.org member Name: Steve Location: Providence, RI Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '95 BMW K75 Posts: 188	I noticed the same thing today... My Jeep has similar symptoms (on the filler cap, obviously there's no sight glass), and I've been told by mechanics that that's just a product of condensation, typically caused by short trips. I don't know if there's the same cause on the Ninja or not; I'll have to go out and look at the sight glass later once it's cooled down to see if it's still there.

March 11th, 2010, 01:30 PM	#3
Sailariel ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Alex Location: Belfast, ME Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	Steve, I was told the same thing by a friend who rides a H-D Sportster. His advice was to wait till tomorrow (Friday) when the temp is predicted to hit 50F and ride hard for a couple of hours. That should heat things up enough to get rid of it. If my oil sample would have had white stuff in it, I would have probably needed to take it to the dealer.

March 11th, 2010, 01:44 PM	#5
Sailariel ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Alex Location: Belfast, ME Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	Rob, Thanks for the Heads Up. I think that it is definitely water. The trick is to find out how it got there. The most probable cause is condensation. If it were a leak in the block--like a blown head gasket, there would be a reduction in performance, white smoke, and a greyish white color to the oil due to anti freeze intrusion. Another place anti freeze can get into the engine would be if the water pump seal failed allowing coolant into the crank case. This does not look like that scenario.

March 11th, 2010, 01:57 PM	#7
Sailariel ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Alex Location: Belfast, ME Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	Paul, Thanks. What you describe is exactly the same syndrome my bike is experiencing. I definitely ruled out a head gasket. I remember all too well, when I was younger, and built a street rod. I thought that if high compression was good, higher compression would be better---went a bit overboard milling the head. The head gasket lasted minutes. We learn all the time.

March 11th, 2010, 02:07 PM	#8
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	I'm willing to bet it's residual moisture from condensation. As others have said, go ride the bike to fully warm it up and then see if the situation improves. Also, make sure the problem is not a milky white sight glass.

March 11th, 2010, 02:31 PM	#9
Sailariel ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Alex Location: Belfast, ME Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	Kelly, I think the white stuff might have stuck to the inside of the glass. It is warming up here---wife is gardening, Daffodils are coming up, and the Maple Syroup people are having a super harvest. Saw a few Robins, and the Red wing Blackbirds are back. We are looking at 50F tomorrow. A two hour ride is definitely in the offing. I really hate winters but don`t want to leave Maine because the people here are so nice.

March 11th, 2010, 02:41 PM	#10
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	Alex, There are nice people wherever you go... even in Hawaii. Enjoy the ride.

March 11th, 2010, 04:38 PM	#11
09black250 dreams of riding Name: Nate Location: Oakdale, CT Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): none...bank loan... Posts: 12	to all of you, YES, it is moisture. All engines trap some residual moisture inside the crankcase while driving. This is definitely seen more on short trips because the engine does not heat up enough to vaporize it. Over time it can cause "sludge" or "gunk" buildup, but generally it is not a problem. Some words of wisdom on this topic though. Do not just fire up your bike for others to hear you rev it 3 time then shut it down. While they may think its cool to hear it, it does have adverse effects. The majority of engine wear occurs at engine startup. Also, warm the bike sufficiently before taking it on a short trip. This will prolong the life of your engine and will make it a lot easier not going down the road with the choke still on trying to hurry it up. just my $.02

March 12th, 2010, 01:45 PM	#15
Sailariel ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Alex Location: Belfast, ME Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	Paul, I took the bike out for a 130mi ride---ran great, and no more white stuff. Gave me a chance to try out my new 15T sprocket. I like the bike a whole lot better now. Response in first and second gear is more controlled and the difference is felt in 4,5,6. It was a good mod.

March 12th, 2010, 06:10 PM	#17
Sailariel ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Alex Location: Belfast, ME Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	Don, That is absolutely right. My problem with the original Ninja gearing was first and second gear. When you traverse an intersection, that is the time you are the most vulnerable to a cager turning in front of you. Most intersections are more than 20 feet long. The last thing I need when crossing an intersection is to concentrate on what some cager is about to do AND shift to second. (This old guy is not too good at multi tasking) The 15T sprocket allows you to get through the intersection with plenty of power, then you pop second, and so on. Also at 60mph to 80mph, the bike does not feel "buzzy" You are still in the sweet spot in your power curve and the bike does not "feel" like it is straining---which you really are not. If you want that high pitched scream, you just drop down a gear.

November 16th, 2010, 05:25 PM	#21
JMcDonald ninjette.org sage Name: J Location: Oklahoma Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Posts: 771	Yeah i was actually getting ready to change it to rotella T6 pretty soon, but i havent been getting the fog since the first change so I wasnt too worried about it. I think i am running too low of oil weight, though, which concerns me far more (I was so in the habit of getting 10w30 for cars that I didnt even think about it and have been running that for the last 2 oil changes instead of some form of 40wt. Posted via Mobile Device