Let's talk about cops....

[USMCEvan]

I recognize that not all police are outstanding citizens, and some tend to get power hungry and even corrupt. On the other hand, they are still just people doing a job, a very dangerous job at that. So why do some people tend to think it's ok or even "cool" to hate ALL cops and call them all "pigs" and treat them as villains? The way I see it, most of them signed on to do a job to serve their community and protect people, while putting their lives on the line every time they put on that blue uniform and walk around with a giant target on their backs. Some go astray, but most are just good people doing an unpopular job.

How is it any different than calling a person a racial slur? Except that people don't get to choose their skin color the way cops choose to go into that line of work.

If you don't like cops, don't put yourself in their line of sight. Makes sense, right? Don't hate the person whose job is to enforce the rules you're breaking.



Anyways, I guess I'm just frustrated about all the haterade going on towards cops and I'm interested in hearing some other perspectives (preferably while remaining at least respectful even if you don't like them).

[Heed]

Like you said, a lot of cops are bad ones. Why people call them 'Pigs' is beyond me - I don't know what that originated from. But most people who hate police have a reason and it's probably because they're out of line doing something they shouldn't.

There really isn't much reason to hate them if they do their job properly. If they don't; that's another story. But I think that if you play your cards right, you shouldn't even have a conflict with a cop.


Sometimes, though, the law itself can get a little silly or corrupt.

I mean, if you're doing 5mph over the limit and you get a ticket, what should you be upset about? Yourself? The law? Definitely not the guy whose job it is to write the ticket and make a quota. He doesn't make up the rules.

It's a relief that there are people out there who especially want to become officers considering the crappy risk/pay ratio.

[rusninja]

I dont mind police but most i just lose respect to some of them not all. Because i know not all are total donkeys but i hate when i see them just sitting trying to clock speeds and give out tickets because really theyre job is to patrol and keep things safe, Because there is more than just vehicles breaking laws and usually when theres a problem the police are rarly there.(Till after a while)

[rusninja]

Originally Posted by Heed

There really isn't much reason to hate them if they do their job properly. If they don't; that's another story. But I think that if you play your cards right, you shouldn't even have a conflict with a cop.


Sometimes, though, the law itself can get a little silly or corrupt.

I mean, if you're doing 5mph over the limit and you get a ticket, what should you be upset about? Yourself? The law? Definitely not the guy whose job it is to write the ticket and make a quota. He doesn't make up the rules.

Lol a whole bunch of police speed way over 5-10 mph even when it seems theres no emergency. :S

[Heed]

Originally Posted by rusninja

Lol a whole bunch of police speed way over 5-10 mph even when it seems theres no emergency. :S

Perks of being a cop. Although I have heard of cops pulling over other cops. Maybe not for speeding, though.

[rusninja]

I dont think its a perk just less likely car to get pulled over. :P I dont think police have magical driving powers if they can drive fast for no reason and not trust me driving fast i dont trust them. XD

[Jiggles]

If there weren't any cops patroling the highways (CHP, California Highway Patrol, all they do is highways, duh) then there would be a bunch of assholes riding around at 90mph. For example, I have a 30 mile commute to work and there are generally no cops on the highway so I drive like an asshole going 90mph (I don't go 95mph because thats full throttle ) Yes I do this everyday, no I've never gotten a ticket, and I continue to do it because of the lack of enforcement.

As far as cops becoming power hungry stupid idiots who barely passed high school, well I think people are taking Harold and Kumar movies a little to seriously. SJPD in particular requires all applicants to have 40 units of semester college or 60 units of quarters college, approx. 1.5 yrs of higher education.

I for one have never met a cop who seemed like a power hungry, stupid asshole and I've met quite a few of them. Now, I was never on the opposing side of the cops so maybe thats why my views are skewed in their favor. Any time I've called up an emergency call they have responded quickly. Any time I've made a non-emergency call, they took there sweet ass time, but then again it was a non-emergency.

I've never seen a cop be unjust, I've seen some be lazy but nothing that would warrant the hatred that so many hold against them.

[Heed]

Originally Posted by rusninja

I dont think its a perk just less likely car to get pulled over. :P I dont think police have magical driving powers if they can drive fast for no reason and not trust me driving fast i dont trust them. XD

wtf did i just read

[FrugalNinja250]

My best friend is a cop. Nevertheless, my personal experiences have led me to distrust and disbelieve them as a group. As a group they've been caught in lie after lie, abuse after abuse, and have proven to have the lowest conviction rate for the crimes they commit of any class or group in this nation. Many cops behave in a manner that would result in an arrest of non-officers on a regular basis, including but not limited to their driving. By law, cops are exempt from most traffic laws when on duty, but it's become apparent to me that they've confused their immunity from the laws of the land with immunity from the laws of physics.

As to the "why treat the good cops bad just because of the bad cops they work with" argument, it's simple in my book. If the so-called good cops can't or won't police their own ranks and work to encourage a high standard of behavior within their community, then they're just as culpable as the bad cops. Police are expected to behave to high standards, period. If they can't, or won't, or are unwilling/unable to promote that within their community, then they shouldn't be cops at all in the first place.

And I'm not interested in discussing how this relates to my friendship with my best friend. Really.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

As a group they've been caught in lie after lie, abuse after abuse,

proof?

[kyrider]

Nothing better than a good cop and nothing worse than a bad one. Same goes for women.

I have friends who are police officers and then again I had a relative who let the job go to his head and ended up in the federal pen. I think it does take a certain type of personality but they are people just like you and me.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by kyrider

Nothing better than a good cop and nothing worse than a bad one. Same goes for women.

I have friends who are police officers and then again I had a relative who let the job go to his head and ended up in the federal pen. I think it does take a certain type of personality but they are people just like you and me.

It's like saying I hate all waiters because one crapped in your soup

[kyrider]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

It's like saying I hate all waiters because one crapped in your soup

I was not saying that by no means. I meant to say most are good people.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

It's like saying I hate all waiters because one crapped in your soup

I think if a waiter actually crapped in my soup, I'd probably hate all waiters for a good long while.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

proof?

Here's one example:

Beginning on December 31, 2001, the local ABC-affiliate, WFAA, began broadcasting a series of investigative reports alleging that hundreds of pounds of cocaine and methamphetamine seized by undercover officers of the DPD Narcotics Division during 2001 were actually not illegal substances. The subsequent "fake drug" scandal led to dismissal of over 80 drug cases by the Dallas County District Attorney's office, multiple investigations, the indictment of three current or former DPD narcotics officers, the release of defendants (many whom were falsely accused Mexican immigrants) who had pleaded guilty to cases where later investigation revealed no illegal drugs were involved and the prosecution of multiple informants that had been used to make cases that were subsequently dismissed.In 2003, Dallas City Manager fired Dallas Police Chief Terrell Bolton, due in part for his Department's lack of oversight of the Narcotics Dept. officers involved in these fake drug arrests. He sued the City of Dallas over that firing but his case was dismissed with prejudice in 2005. Many of the 25 victims of the false arrests and wrongful prosecution won Federal Civil Rights Violations lawsuit settlements and actual jury case awards against the City of Dallas. One attorney who sued the city on behalf of what was a large percentage of Mexican immigrants who spoke little english, said, "the total cost could climb to as much as $8 million once all 25 cases are resolved." On May 5, 2008 former Narcotics Division detective Mark Delapaz began serving a five-year sentence for making false statements in an application for a search warrant related to the scandal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Police_Department

Find the rest yourself, I'm not doing all the work for you.

Edit to add:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

It's like saying I hate all waiters because one crapped in your soup

So, do you hate all Muslims because of the actions of a handful of them on September 11, 2001?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

So, do you hate all Muslims because of the actions of a handful of them on September 11, 2001?

No I hate asians because of pearl harbor

[USMCEvan]

I think frugalninja may be confusing the popularized minority for the mass majority. We never hear about the good cops because they are just doing the right thing (that and the media knows that telling happy stories doesn't sell as well as telling about corruption and whatnot). Just like how INCORRECT stereotypes are made for Asians being brilliant, Africans being criminals and Hispanics being lazy, so do they also create the stereotype of cops being power hungry. Sure, SOME people fit into those stereotypes (cops included) but how often do you hear about those who DON'T fit into them? More people fit outside the stereotype than in it. But they aren't the publicized ones, are they?

I'm just saying.... some doesn't equal most. Just the loud minority who doesn't blend in like the silent majority.

[reaubideux]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

As to the "why treat the good cops bad just because of the bad cops they work with" argument, it's simple in my book. If the so-called good cops can't or won't police their own ranks and work to encourage a high standard of behavior within their community, then they're just as culpable as the bad cops. Police are expected to behave to high standards, period. If they can't, or won't, or are unwilling/unable to promote that within their community, then they shouldn't be cops at all in the first place.

One thing to consider though is the risk involved with being a good cop who tries to police within his/her own ranks, maybe they try to just say something to the bad cop behind closed doors or they go a step further and actually turn that bad cop in. Sure, that's one bad cop that was busted but the good cop just got labelled as a snitch. Just like bikers, soldiers, etc., cops are part of a brotherhood which invokes a lot of trust amongst its members, to break that trust could have repercussions. Not saying that they'll go all cliche Hollywood and set the good cop up to get killed by some gang or something, but maybe they'll just be dicks to the good cop or otherwise make your work environment that much more stressful. Maybe they actually do worse that I'm just not aware of, I don't know. Bottom line, I wouldn't want to piss off the group of people to whom I entrust my life every day.

That being said, I still actually agree with you that it's harder to respect the good cops when they can't or won't police their own ranks, although I do see the flip side to maybe why they choose not to do so.

As for the overall hatred against cops, I blame the media for the most part. Nothing gets page hits, viewership, and papers sold like a juicy story about the corruption of those in authority. You'll hear the "good cop saves lives" stories too, but it doesn't stir up controversy and viewership like "bad cop" stories can. It's that old adage: bad news travels faster than good news.

Obviously, personal experience comprises the majority of one's opinion of cops. People need to realize that their personal demeanor and attitude play a big part in how cops treat them. Yeah, it sucks getting a speeding ticket but the cop has to treat you as a potential murderer so the more pleasant - despite the unpleasant nature of the interaction - you are to the cop the more respectful he or she may be to you which can play into whether or not you get let go without the ticket. Of course, with some cops it just doesn't matter. They're on a power-trip, or generally hate their jobs, or whatever and take it out on the public. I've found, in my personal experience, that state patrol is almost always polite and courteous and locals and county cops are pretty much always dicks despite any attempts at showing respect. The former will always get a handshake and "stay safe, have a good day" from me, the latter... they can take a flying leap.

I have a few friends who are or were cops so I've gotten to hear both sides. A close friend (and neighbor) is an active cop and some of the stories he's told me have had me questioning the lapses in his judgement and of those with whom he works. I think the only thing he's admitted to that really had me walking away in disgust was letting someone go for speeding, w/no insurance (required in MO), and on a revoked license for DUI convictions. He just didn't want to deal with it b/c he was having a bad day so he let the guy go.

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by USMCEvan

but how often do you hear about those who DON'T fit into them?

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't expect or care to hear/see stories about cops that simply do the job expected. Let's not kid ourselves, being a cop means you should be a person of high moral character and nothing less. If you do something that breaches the public trust, I expect it to make news and for you to be rightfully criticised. On the flip side, cops that go out of their way or beyond the call of duty for the public good also probably deserve more positive attention and praise as this is the type of behaviour we as a society need to positively reinforce.

I also don't agree with people or media that go on a witch hunt just looking for cops who slip up. News reporting should be unbiased but of course, we know this is not always the case.

[USMCEvan]

Originally Posted by Boom King

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't expect or care to hear/see stories about cops that simply do the job expected. Let's not kid ourselves, being a cop means you should be a person of high moral character and nothing less. If you do something that breaches the public trust, I expect it to make news and for you to be rightfully criticised. On the flip side, cops that go out of their way or beyond the call of duty for the public good also probably deserve more positive attention and praise as this is the type of behaviour we as a society need to positively reinforce.

I also don't agree with people or media that go on a witch hunt just looking for cops who slip up. News reporting should be unbiased but of course, we know this is not always the case.

I totally agree with you. They are expected to do the right thing and so it shouldn't be widely publicized when they help a little girl get her cat out of a tree or something like that. It's when they screw up that they get attention. Their job is like glass - when it's functioning properly, it goes unseen, but when something goes wrong, only then is it visible.

I think, perhaps, the psych eval should be a little bit more in depth during the hiring process, to help detect personality traits that would raise flags for things like a tendency towards gambling, bribery, corruption, etc.

[jonthechron]

Do you hate all Green Ninjas because they are faster than you?

[USMCEvan]

Originally Posted by jonthechron

Do you hate all Green Ninjas because they are faster than you?

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

No I hate asians because of pearl harbor

[massacremasses]

One time I was patted down, searched and my car was searched 2 houses down from my gf (now wife) parents house. It was embarrassing but pretty funny. I still to this day have no idea why he searched me or my car. He was alright, kinda douchey though. Then this other SDPD cop pulled me over, made fun of my car, told me I probably sped all the time, and was the biggest douche ever, then he gave me ticket for my tint, that was purple because it was old and ******... smh...

I dont hate cops I hate those two because they were douche bags. Ive gotten pulled over before, the cop sounds like a total douche, I open my mouth (I am always respectful at first because they dont know me, Im a nice guy) and BOOOOM all the sudden their demeanor changes COMPLETELY. They start joking with me, tell me what I did wrong, and to be careful and are nice guys. I love cops like that. Im not dangerous, Im not some punk kid, Im a nice guy, and so are the majority of cops but there are those dicks everywhere too. There are assholes in this world everywhere. Some just happen to be cops...

[kyrider]

Like they say in the Hood!

Guns don't kill people, Police do.

(insert disclaimer here)

[CC Cowboy]

Politicians and Police are in the club and above the law. Accept it and move on.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by USMCEvan

I think frugalninja may be confusing the popularized minority for the mass majority.

I'm pretty sure I'm not confusing anything on this issue. My opinions and thoughts were formed (and continue to be reinforced) by both direct experience and in-depth research, and continued observation of current events.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by reaubideux

One thing to consider though is the risk involved with being a good cop who tries to police within his/her own ranks, maybe they try to just say something to the bad cop behind closed doors or they go a step further and actually turn that bad cop in.

This is very true. A year or two back there was a low-speed police chase of a motorcycle in Dallas. The rider was cornered and one cop ran into the back of the bike, knocking it and the rider down. The cops rushed out of their car and proceeded to beat the living hell out of the rider, who sustained major injuries. During the beating, which was caught on police dash cameras, one of the 22 cops present reached into his patrol car and manually rotated his camera away from the beating. They also filed falsified police reports.

Fortunately, other cop cameras caught the beating, and more importantly, after a few weeks one of the cops present made an anonymous report to internal affairs to look into the issue. IA had been ignoring the rider's requests to investigate his beating, but the anonymous cop's report was enough to get the ball moving. It looks like at least four officers will be suffering the consequences of tampering with evidence. IIRC, the rider sustained a traumatic head injury among all of his. I don't know what kind of care he received or continues to receive.

If it wasn't for the actions of one brave cop, one good cop, who in fear of his or her fellow officers had to act anonymously, these bad cops would have gone unpunished for this act of violence against a citizen as they presumably have before. The fact that this cop had to act anonymously is a clear definition of the problem at the core of the police service. If police have to be afraid of each other, in what possible way can we citizens not be afraid of them?

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by Boom King

I also don't agree with people or media that go on a witch hunt just looking for cops who slip up. News reporting should be unbiased but of course, we know this is not always the case.

The stories that make it the national news desk are generally pretty severe examples of problems on the force. The events depicted are generally not the first offense, and frequently journalistic investigation yields many previous infractions and negative reports in the background of the officers being reported on. My thought is, why does it take dozens or hundreds of previous problems on the part of an officer before the "big one" that makes the news? In other words, it has to be pretty bad for the news to notice it, and until the news does, these bad officers continue to hold their jobs and continue their abuse, unstopped by either their leadership or their fellow officers.

Like drunk drivers of the past who had numerous drunk driving offenses on their record before the final "big one" that killed a family and finally got the drunk taken off the road, bad officers are allowed to continue being bad officers until they do the "big one" of murdering someone in cold blood, or planting fake drugs, etc, before they're removed. That's the problem, in a nutshell. Asking reporters to look the other way is most definitely *not* the answer.

Let me ask a question: Would you want some entity looking for "slip ups" on the part of your surgeon? Your airline pilot? Your pharmacist?

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Asking reporters to look the other way is most definitely *not* the answer.

Let me ask a question: Would you want some entity looking for "slip ups" on the part of your surgeon? Your airline pilot? Your pharmacist?

A bit of a straw man here.

I guess I should reinforce what I had already said in my prior post. I'm not asking reporters to turn a blind eye to unjust cops. In fact, I said quite the opposite. Police that fail at keeping the public trust deserve to be reported in the media. This stuff shouldn't be swept under a rug or kept behind the "blue wall" of secrecy.

As for an entity looking for slip ups, I agree with entities that exist to investigate accused police corruption, etc. in a fair, thorough and unbiased manner. What I said I don't agree with are biased media that go on a "witch hunt" and hold all police automatically guilty at the first accusation without assessing and reporting all the facts. Subsequently, these same people seem to paint all cops with the same brush.

[BlackNinja]

Originally Posted by USMCEvan

I recognize that not all police are outstanding citizens, and some tend to get power hungry and even corrupt. On the other hand, they are still just people doing a job, a very dangerous job at that. So why do some people tend to think it's ok or even "cool" to hate ALL cops and call them all "pigs" and treat them as villains? The way I see it, most of them signed on to do a job to serve their community and protect people, while putting their lives on the line every time they put on that blue uniform and walk around with a giant target on their backs. Some go astray, but most are just good people doing an unpopular job.

How is it any different than calling a person a racial slur? Except that people don't get to choose their skin color the way cops choose to go into that line of work.

If you don't like cops, don't put yourself in their line of sight. Makes sense, right? Don't hate the person whose job is to enforce the rules you're breaking.



Anyways, I guess I'm just frustrated about all the haterade going on towards cops and I'm interested in hearing some other perspectives (preferably while remaining at least respectful even if you don't like them).

Your post screams like a fresh boot straight from the MP school house that hasn't been in the fleet long enough to rate a GWAT.

Just sayin'.

[Nemesis]

[NDspd]

I know many cops and swat team members and most are very close friends to me. I have run into some very uncaring, disrespectful, &^%$ headed priks that literally pull me over for nothing. But, even with those few unforgettable experiences I still waive or flash the peace sign. Sometimes I get a waive back, and others get me a really stern look.

I understand the service they are doing and *&^% they have to go through. But, some really have a burr up their (*&. All in all, have a smile on your face, or if you are wearing a helmet, give them a little wave.

[USMCEvan]

Originally Posted by BlackNinja

Your post screams like a fresh boot straight from the MP school house that hasn't been in the fleet long enough to rate a GWAT.

Just sayin'.

5 years active duty, 2 tours in Iraq, promoted to Sgt after 3 yrs and 10 months, not meritoriously but thanks to lots of hard work, high PFT and range scores.

Your post reeks of terminal Lance grunt with an inflated ego from being an 03xx and no future in the real world.

If you have a problem with me or just want to measure penises, fine, but don't crap on a perfectly good conversation. It was all civil and mature until you arrived. PM if you've got a problem.

[USMCEvan]

By the way, it's a gwOt - Global War On Terrorism. Any seasoned Marine knows that.

[USMCEvan]

Originally Posted by NDspd

I know many cops and swat team members and most are very close friends to me. I have run into some very uncaring, disrespectful, &^%$ headed priks that literally pull me over for nothing. But, even with those few unforgettable experiences I still waive or flash the peace sign. Sometimes I get a waive back, and others get me a really stern look.

I understand the service they are doing and *&^% they have to go through. But, some really have a burr up their (*&. All in all, have a smile on your face, or if you are wearing a helmet, give them a little wave.

I always try to wave when I'm riding - I even waved to one LAPD officer who pulled me over right after cuz I didn't realize I was speeding (oops). Even so he was still really cool and we talked about his police issue BMW for ten minutes after the ticketand he asked me to ride safe cuz "we lose too many of you guys on bikes after coming homefrom combat, we can't have that." Really nice guy.


Although yeah there are a few with attitudes. Who knows, maybe just havin a bad day when we meet them. :-/

[USMCEvan]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

I'm pretty sure I'm not confusing anything on this issue. My opinions and thoughts were formed (and continue to be reinforced) by both direct experience and in-depth research, and continued observation of current events.

Oh awesome! Finally we've got some real evidence and actual research! Would you be willing to share your research with us? And was it based on statistical numbers or interviews or some other method? I'd love to see the actual scientific ecodence behind the balance of good cops and bad cops. Thanks man!

[alex.s]

my brother is a sheriff, and i've known plenty of police/deputies. 90% of them are respectful intelligent kind individuals who do great services to their communities for little reward. 8% of them are douche bags with a power complex, but generally only resort to writing dick tickets. 2% of them are dangerous psychos with guns.

heres the deal with cops, if you are doing something retarded, then they are going to stop you. dont do retarded stuff, cops are fine with you. 9 times out of 10 if you get stopped by a cop you can talk your way out of it if you are happy and courteous. or if you are a girl, if you cry and talk about how daddy will sell the bike if she gets another ticket... good ol' sexism.

[NDspd]

Originally Posted by USMCEvan

I always try to wave when I'm riding - I even waved to one LAPD officer who pulled me over right after cuz I didn't realize I was speeding (oops). Even so he was still really cool and we talked about his police issue BMW for ten minutes after the ticketand he asked me to ride safe cuz "we lose too many of you guys on bikes after coming homefrom combat, we can't have that." Really nice guy.


Although yeah there are a few with attitudes. Who knows, maybe just havin a bad day when we meet them. :-/

Hahaha...too funny, they can be cool guys, but every once in a while you hit that rotten egg.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by USMCEvan

Oh awesome! Finally we've got some real evidence and actual research! Would you be willing to share your research with us? And was it based on statistical numbers or interviews or some other method? I'd love to see the actual scientific ecodence behind the balance of good cops and bad cops. Thanks man!

Your plainly obvious sarcasm makes me believe you're just angling for an attack and having already formed an inflexible opinion you have no interest in anything I can post outside of finding more points to go after.

Plonk...