Rebuilding Questions

[eulark]

Got my parts in yesterday and got them installed. Went to finally take it home after a few test runs back and forth near the house. Got a few miles and it started to cut out on me. It would start up for a minute, then it would. It idles perfect forever. So I tried again. I repeated this process about ten times before making it back to my parent’s place.

From what the mechanic I spoke with said, it sounds like the ignition coils are going bad. So off to find some now. The issue is that when they are heating up, I guess they stop working. Carbs are good, although they are running a little rich I think, but like I said it idles fine, and revs all the way to the limiter fine, I can ride and accelerate fine, until things heat up and then it starts cutting out and then it cuts off. Plugs are good by the way and the CPU ecm whatever thingy is good. Carbs are clean and put together correctly. So, coil seem to be the culprits.

Now I have no idea how to identify if it is one or both. Any idea on how to test them?

[eulark]

Also, I noticed after installing the new air filter, that it was running pretty richly. I'm guessing that I oiled it a little too much. How does one know when there is enough oil?

[n4mwd]

They come pre-oiled.

The thing with coils is that they don't know the difference between fast idle and hard acceleration. All they know is how often they spark. If its the coils, and say, you see a problem at 4K RPM, you'll see it 4K RPM regardless of which gear you are in. The difference is that it might be more noticeable during hard acceleration than at idle because a missed power stoke there is more noticeable.

One other thing about the coils is that because there are two of them, its unusual for them to strand you. Usually, if one goes bad, you can still limp home on one cylinder.

Contrary to my previous belief, I have been told that the wires on the coils are replaceable. I have never done it, but I am told its possible.

[eulark]

The air filter I got was bone dry. :/

And the it wasnt so much the missed powerstroke, although there was that. And the missed powerstroke occurred at any RPM. It really seemed like they were just going bad the both of them. It may have something to do with the previous ingiter computer thingy shorting out from water. Either way, I get the coils today so I’ll test it tomorrow and see what happens.

[n4mwd]

Used coils are a crap shoot. Sometimes they are better than your old ones and sometimes they are not. Lets hope you got two good ones. If they don't work right, maybe investigate the removability of the wire. It might be possible to exchange it for a newer/better wire.

[rickthefix]

doubt coils will fix it.
an old saying:
if you think its ignition, it will be fuel related and if you think it's fuel, it will be ignition.

[eulark]

Originally Posted by rickthefix

doubt coils will fix it.
an old saying:
if you think its ignition, it will be fuel related and if you think it's fuel, it will be ignition.

Funny enough, you are correct sir. It was something very simple and easily overlooked. I never even installed the coils.

As i was taking off the side covers to look at something else first, I noticed that when I routed the breather hose for the tank, it got snagged on something and that resulted in it getting pinched. It allowed enough air to start the bike and ride a little ways, but eventually it would cause the gas to no longer flow. As i would sit waiting on the bike to start again, I guess it slowly got the air it needed. Then I would ride and start it all over again.

So yes. It was a fuel issue. After that, I took the bike 25 miles on a dry rotting front tire to the shop to replace that 10 year old stocker with a pirelli demon and followed that up with a 40 mile ride with some friend. Seems like it is all working fairly well.

Only think I'm left fretting over is the CCT. There is a lot of rattling coming from the head on the right side (throttle side). I say a lot, but it isnt much so i dont think it is an immediate need, but I've reset the CCT five times now. I know it is installed correctly. I also know that the chain is good. I measured it before installing and the length was good. When I hit about 500 miles on this rebuild, I'm going to check the valves and rockers, and I'll go ahead and check the chain again then.

I've already reached out to that guy who makes manual tensioners so I may take the hit on that and see if that works for me. Anyone have experience with those?

[eulark]

Got the manual tensioner in today. The rattling is just getting on my nerves at this point. So plan is to check clearances again, probably tighten them down some. I know the rocker arms were set on the loose end of the spectrum for sure because I did not want to have to go back in for a while. Alas, twas not the case. So valve clearance and tensioner are on the block. Once, that's good and clear, up will go a video of it all running, and I'll be sending @n4mwd a case of his favorite beer.

[n4mwd]

I don't recommend the manual tensioners because it is too easy to crank them too far and damage the engine. If something is making a ticking sound, you need to test to make sure isn't just the clutch basket.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Sit on the bike, put in 1st, front brake on, slowly add light load by letting off clutch. If the ticking sound goes away, its the clutch basket. The video shows what is going on in there.

[eulark]

The noise I'm working with right now if definitely coming from the valve train. There may be a noise coming from the clutch basket area, but I can't really tell over the rattle in the valve train area. Once I get that taken care of, I can look into the clutch basket.

If it is the clutch basket, whats the sort of future issues with it? I know I have a spare one I think. Ima look now.

[eulark]

Yep, I definitely have a good one in my parts box. So, I guess after the valve stuff, if there is still a ticking noise too, I can work with that.

I know I read that the valve train will be fairly noisy if the rockers are set to the loose end of the spec. How noisy is that?

[n4mwd]

Pretty much all clutch baskets for the pregen do that. Its a design flaw. The newgens don't have the problem. Its a simple test so you should do it just to see what is going on.

Again, too much pressure on that manual tensioner and the hinge pin will break and you'll have to do a complete engine rebuild and replace the lower case with a new one.