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Old September 27th, 2011, 02:38 PM   #1
Volnaya
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Need help with body positioning..

Soooo the other day my friend recorded me on our group ride, and for the first time I saw how wrong my cornering is. Need help to improve that...

Anyone?

Here's the video.. sorry for the shaking.

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old September 27th, 2011, 06:17 PM   #2
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Old September 27th, 2011, 06:39 PM   #3
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oh sorry, thanks
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Old September 27th, 2011, 07:01 PM   #4
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You're looking pretty good to me Julia, btw I'm Russian too!
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Old September 27th, 2011, 07:35 PM   #5
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Are you really?

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Old September 27th, 2011, 07:49 PM   #6
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It seems you're comfortable getting unglued from the seat.

I like this article: http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=039&Set=

For sweepers the delayed apex approach isn't really necessary. Just remember outside-inside-outside.

The hardest thing for me in a long sweeper is not getting inside too early. Remember keep your head up and look where you want to be.
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Old September 27th, 2011, 08:10 PM   #7
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While it looks odd, there's nothing really wrong with your positioning. Personally, I like to keep my spine as straight as possible. Try sliding your butt over a little bit.
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Old September 27th, 2011, 08:34 PM   #8
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Are you really?

Привет
Привет, как дела? да, I was born in Печорa (Pechora), a small town about 60 miles from Siberia. My father was in the military and stationed there at the time. I also lived in Ukraine for several years before my family moved to Brooklyn NY. I have distant family in Kiev, Odessa, Moscow etc. Where are you from? How long have you been riding? Приятно познакомиться!
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Old September 27th, 2011, 08:41 PM   #9
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Get your head lower and "kiss your mirrors". While your positioning doesn't look bad, and there is absolutely no need for anyone to ever "hang-off" on the street, you can still benefit from some minor adjustments.

By attempting to "kiss your mirrors" you will put that much more of YOUR weight on the inside of the turn where it belongs, allowing you to minimize your lean, which is what you want. If you pay close attention to your current positioning, you will see that your head actually leans AWAY from the turn, and this causes your shoulder to come back in slightly. This has a negative effect, because while your butt and abdomen are inside the turn, more of your weight is carried in your head and torso.
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Old September 27th, 2011, 08:43 PM   #10
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I mean no disrespect ladies but I don't know what's worse: German or Russian. Both languages simply refuse to make use of properly placed VOWELS!

There should be a limit to the number of consecutive consonants in a word for all languages. lol

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Old September 27th, 2011, 08:59 PM   #11
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Get your head lower and "kiss your mirrors".
+1

while you do that, remember to hold your weight on the outside peg. It helps stand the bike up as well, and really anchors you so you can get your head even closer in to the mirrors and pucker up
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Old September 27th, 2011, 09:00 PM   #12
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*Sigh* now I kinda wish I kept up with my Russian cause I can barely read it nowadays, and can't remember a single meaning LOL.
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Old September 28th, 2011, 03:22 PM   #13
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For that speed and road, I don't see much with your body positioning. Looks like a nice relaxed, controlled ride to me.

I can tell from your legs your right up on the tank though. You want to be sitting about 3-5 inches back from the tank so your outer leg doesn't kick out when your leaning off on the inside. (You doing alot of hook turn techniques?)

Great job! Looks like you had a fun ride.
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Old September 28th, 2011, 04:52 PM   #14
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While it looks odd, there's nothing really wrong with your positioning. Personally, I like to keep my spine as straight as possible. Try sliding your butt over a little bit.

I agree. It's actually more a of a slide to the side than just a lean of your upper body. Keep your body in a straight line. You'll use a LOT of your quadriceps and thigh muscles as you kind of hover over the seat a lot when you're weighting your pegs!
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Old September 28th, 2011, 05:18 PM   #15
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and there is absolutely no need for anyone to ever "hang-off" on the street
there's never a "need" for any body positioning. that doesn't mean you won't benefit from it. if you're comfortable sticking your cheek off, why not? obviously dragging knees is something completely different but a little extra weight off the side to move your angle up can't hurt (well maybe it would hurt your butt or something if you do it weird)

the cheek-sneak is unconscious for me now and has become part of leaning into a turn... especially if road conditions are iffy. i like to use as little lean angle as is needed to keep potential traction higher in case extra traction is needed.

+1 kiss the mirror, elbows toward the tank. brace and weight your outside foot and toe-in on the inside foot for extra clearance.

i'll agree; with the speed/lean angle, body positioning isn't really doing a whole lot for you (maybe only a few degrees of extra lean angle), but if you plan on taking it up a notch there's no sense not practicing what you'll be using.
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Old September 28th, 2011, 06:53 PM   #16
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You aren't carrying enough corner speed to really get worried about hanging off the bike. The little shift to the side is good, keep practicing it and getting more used to it. Try to keep pressure on the bike with the insides of your thighs and focus on your steering inputs, your sight through the corner and your line though the corner. Keep your spine pretty straight and don't kiss your mirror like suggested above, this is wrong. Keep your torso high, this will keep your center of gravity higher and turn the bike easier and with less bike lean. When you get into riding through high speed sweepers and the wind is catching your torso, you'll then use the kiss the mirror form to edge out the race bike in front of you for that podium finish Also, for now, don't worry too much about which foot peg has the more weight on it, you can get to that later

For now, I think you need seat time and getting more comfortable with it. It seems like you were thinking a lot about your positioning and setting up pretty early, before the corners. Just keep going. Get used to it. Get better at it. Have fun!
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Old September 28th, 2011, 08:31 PM   #17
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I mean no disrespect ladies but I don't know what's worse: German or Russian. Both languages simply refuse to make use of properly placed VOWELS!

There should be a limit to the number of consecutive consonants in a word for all languages. lol

Sorry, the language between those two regions is worse still for awkward consonant conglomerations.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 09:18 PM   #18
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Keep your spine pretty straight and don't kiss your mirror like suggested above, this is wrong. Keep your torso high, this will keep your center of gravity higher and turn the bike easier and with less bike lean.
Can you please elaborate, since everything I have read and everyone I have been able to speak to who has track experience says exactly the opposite. The point of "kissing the mirrors" is to put more weight on the inside of the bike to minimize lean angle. I'm also curious on what your thoughts are on mass centralization? A higher center of gravity is only going to help so much, and only then for the initial turn in as I understand it.

Perhaps "kissing the mirrors" is not the right way to describe it. That's how several Rider Coaches on beginnerbikers have described the technique when giving advice. In addition, Keith Code has something he teaches to gain a bit more lean angle and it involves getting your head lower to generate just a bit more lean from the bike while maintaining stability. I forget what the exercise is called, and only read about it on the same forum after a track school discussion. Certainly not necessary for the road, but it has the same principle of more weight on the inside line of the bike to reduce the lean angle of the bike itself.

Finally, everything I have ever read points to "riding twisted" as not good. I have tried to ride like this myself, just for the experience, and the bike definitely felt less stable, and the tires less planted. While I don't think you could define the OP's riding as "twisted", her butt is hanging off the seat inside of center (barely but it is), while her head and torso stay on center.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 03:38 AM   #19
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Can you please elaborate, since everything I have read and everyone I have been able to speak to who has track experience says exactly the opposite. The point of "kissing the mirrors" is to put more weight on the inside of the bike to minimize lean angle. I'm also curious on what your thoughts are on mass centralization? A higher center of gravity is only going to help so much, and only then for the initial turn in as I understand it.

Perhaps "kissing the mirrors" is not the right way to describe it. That's how several Rider Coaches on beginnerbikers have described the technique when giving advice. In addition, Keith Code has something he teaches to gain a bit more lean angle and it involves getting your head lower to generate just a bit more lean from the bike while maintaining stability. I forget what the exercise is called, and only read about it on the same forum after a track school discussion. Certainly not necessary for the road, but it has the same principle of more weight on the inside line of the bike to reduce the lean angle of the bike itself.

Finally, everything I have ever read points to "riding twisted" as not good. I have tried to ride like this myself, just for the experience, and the bike definitely felt less stable, and the tires less planted. While I don't think you could define the OP's riding as "twisted", her butt is hanging off the seat inside of center (barely but it is), while her head and torso stay on center.


Ok dude, I did this just for you. I googled this stuff just so I could give you some internet based information. This is stuff I've known since before we had internet , so I didn't have a source ready

I too have race experience and this thread is not about competition. I agree that she gets a bit kaddywhompus sometimes, but it's not happening the same way on all her turns so I was chalking that up to being new at it, and inconsistant.

Here are some picture with explanations. I'm trying to advise her to be the "rider sitting high" to help her get through the corners with less bike lean. As her speeds pick up, leaning her torso more forward and lower can come.


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Old September 30th, 2011, 05:09 AM   #20
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At low speed you don’t need to move around on the bike so why do it.

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Old September 30th, 2011, 06:22 AM   #21
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At low speed you don’t need to move around on the bike so why do it.

Steve
The simple answer to this is for FUN.

I would also add.... Track or not, most cannot learn & practice a skill at 100% of their riding ability. A slower 80% pace or even less should be preferred.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 06:25 AM   #22
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At low speed you don’t need to move around on the bike so why do it.

Steve
It's called practice. As she gets better, her speed will increase and her form will get better.

Also... your sentence is a bit silly because there are slow corners that can benefit from proper riding form. Imagine that.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 06:51 AM   #23
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In addition, Keith Code has something he teaches to gain a bit more lean angle and it involves getting your head lower to generate just a bit more lean from the bike while maintaining stability. I forget what the exercise is called, and only read about it on the same forum after a track school discussion. Certainly not necessary for the road, but it has the same principle of more weight on the inside line of the bike to reduce the lean angle of the bike itself.
The drill in question here is the hook turn. And it is definitely useful on the street as it can tighten your turn mid corner without introducing instability to the bike. I can see hints of this skill in the OP's video. Think how this can help you in decreasing radius turns.

Link to original page on YouTube.

In my riding experience, when I am followed and perform this technique I get questioned about it at the next rest stop. "Why was your head down, but your bum on the seat?" "What is your secret to rolling through that decreasing radius turn with so much more speed than everyone else?" I have also found that some riders do this and don't even know it. It just happens as they ride at a slightly more than casual pace.

Again, the road and speeds shown in the OP's video do not require such advanced techniques to navigate to the end shinny side up. But the requirements of a FUN ride are different for us all.

Great ride


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Old September 30th, 2011, 08:32 AM   #24
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OMG guys, thank you so much for all the advice! Most of the stuff I know about in theory, but it's way harder to actually practice in on the road lol
rockNroll, thanks for the pictures! It is actually much easier to understand when you can see too.
And everyone who posted here, I really appreciate your help. I've read every post carefully, and derived the essence advice from all of you. (love this forum!)

This is my 6th month riding, and I decided that I'm not going to move on to a bigger bike until I learn how to properly corner on my Leo (yes, that's his name, as in TMNT Once my chicken strips are non-existent and stay that way for a while, I know I have enough experience and confidence to try it on a bigger bike.

Also, I'm hoping to take my ninja to a track someday And cornering skills are useful to have there.

About the speed... all of the corners were done with ~70 as entering and ~75 as existing speeds. And even then sometimes it felt like my tires were skipping :/
For some reason, I can't find non-commuter ninjettes around this area, and I'm forced to ride with bigger bikes. They go around corners waaaaaay faster on those fat tires that they have... So i was looking for a way to keep up, and figured that ninjette's best advantage is flickability Now learning on how to take full advantage of it.

About the weight on the outside foot...i was always doing the opposite, actually. I used my inside foot to push down on the peg, and it helped with the turn. That could be one of my mistakes that you don't see on the video. Another is that 2 months ago I low-sided in a 90deg turn, and now i'm also working on my mental acceptance of the turns. (was terrified to lean for a while)


We (Moto Club at UF) host rides every Sunday, and this week we are hitting up the Ozello trail ( http://www.motorcycleroads.com/75/16...rail-Ride.html ).
If anyone records me, i'll post it here to see how the learning process is going

BTW, if anyone is in the area and would like to join us, you're very welcome to do so. We are heading out from Gainesville, FL, around 10am this Sunday. PM me if you want to come. Should be a fun ride

ps. RaZeDaHeLL, так редко встречаю русских здесь! да еще чтоб и на мотоцикле тоже ездили! жалко, что не во Флориде ..
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Old September 30th, 2011, 09:29 AM   #25
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Don't let those fat tires fool you. I pass 600's/750's with fat tires in the corners all the time. And I get smoked badly on a really, really twisty section of road by a rider on a 1000 (R1).

Most of the time, its the rider not the bike.

Enjoy the Ozello trail ride, looks like a beautiful route. Take us some pics please.

Ride safe!
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Old September 30th, 2011, 12:56 PM   #26
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I agree.. this is why i'm trying to get as good as i can
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Old September 30th, 2011, 01:47 PM   #27
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Thanks for more clarification rock.

Yeah, Chris, I guess the hook turn could be used on the street, but I believe in pacing myself according to the road and condition, and make sure to not be pushing to hard on a new road. Though it is a good skill to have.

Good luck, Julia. This riding thing only gets better the more you do it. I'm about to clean the chain, take it out for a drying run, and then lube it up.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 02:58 PM   #28
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Good luck, Julia. This riding thing only gets better the more you do it. I'm about to clean the chain, take it out for a drying run, and then lube it up.
Thanks! I'm actually doing my chain tomorrow
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Old October 26th, 2011, 05:23 PM   #29
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OMG guys, thank you so much for all the advice! Most of the stuff I know about in theory, but it's way harder to actually practice in on the road lol
rockNroll, thanks for the pictures! It is actually much easier to understand when you can see too.
And everyone who posted here, I really appreciate your help. I've read every post carefully, and derived the essence advice from all of you. (love this forum!)

This is my 6th month riding, and I decided that I'm not going to move on to a bigger bike until I learn how to properly corner on my Leo (yes, that's his name, as in TMNT Once my chicken strips are non-existent and stay that way for a while, I know I have enough experience and confidence to try it on a bigger bike.

Also, I'm hoping to take my ninja to a track someday And cornering skills are useful to have there.

About the speed... all of the corners were done with ~70 as entering and ~75 as existing speeds. And even then sometimes it felt like my tires were skipping :/
For some reason, I can't find non-commuter ninjettes around this area, and I'm forced to ride with bigger bikes. They go around corners waaaaaay faster on those fat tires that they have... So i was looking for a way to keep up, and figured that ninjette's best advantage is flickability Now learning on how to take full advantage of it.

About the weight on the outside foot...i was always doing the opposite, actually. I used my inside foot to push down on the peg, and it helped with the turn. That could be one of my mistakes that you don't see on the video. Another is that 2 months ago I low-sided in a 90deg turn, and now i'm also working on my mental acceptance of the turns. (was terrified to lean for a while)


We (Moto Club at UF) host rides every Sunday, and this week we are hitting up the Ozello trail ( http://www.motorcycleroads.com/75/16...rail-Ride.html ).
If anyone records me, i'll post it here to see how the learning process is going

BTW, if anyone is in the area and would like to join us, you're very welcome to do so. We are heading out from Gainesville, FL, around 10am this Sunday. PM me if you want to come. Should be a fun ride

ps. RaZeDaHeLL, так редко встречаю русских здесь! да еще чтоб и на мотоцикле тоже ездили! жалко, что не во Флориде ..
A ninja can actually go around the corners just as fast the bikes. I smoke plenty of big bikes on track days, but then I get smoked on the straights. It's all about your riding experience and abilities. Plus it is better to practice at a faster pace on the track then on the road. Go little wide on the track you aren't going wide into oncoming traffic. Body position takes time to learn and you have a good start. Start with moving you butt more over and remember to move your upper body as well. Remember we all start somewhere.

me in march

me in june
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Old October 27th, 2011, 03:36 AM   #30
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Old November 4th, 2011, 11:56 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Volnaya View Post

This is my 6th month riding [cut]

all of the corners were done with ~70 as entering and ~75 as existing speeds.
Wow. It looked like you were going fast! I've been riding over a year and I still don't feel comfortable going around big sweepers that fast, alot more comfortable with tighter slower turns. I know how turns like that are boring unless you pick up the speed, but I start getting scared at those speeds! I start getting front fork weirdness but I guess newgen bikes are stiffer... anyways, I'm impressed.

Wouldn't you have to be going much faster in big sweepers like that to really need to get your body down (ala S.P. Rocket photos)?
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