Weird neutral issue and shifting feels "loose?"

[jesse]

Hey guys,

I just bought a 2010 250 and have been loving it. I've had a few weird things happen and wanted to get peoples take on it.

1) every now and again, I just can't get the bike to hit neutral (and thus it won't start).

2) I've noticed while riding that sometimes when I shift, the gears feel like they are clunking into place rather than it being smooth.. almost like something is loose. Not sure how else to describe it.

3) sometimes the tach deosn't come to life until I've been riding for a good few minutes or so. What's that all about?

[DannoXYZ]

Tach needle can have stiction. Tap face to shake it loose.

For shifting:

1. make sure clutch cable is adjusted so engagement-zone is about 50% along lever travel. Tighten cable to move it towards end. Loosen cable to move it towards bar.

2. put bike in 1st or neutral when you park it. It has "Positive Neutral Finder" feature where it will only go into neutral from 1st while at standstill. So when it's in 1st, just yank up as hard as you can and it'll only go into neutral, not 2nd.

3. make sure shift-rod is adjusted so little arms at each end are at 90-degrees



And bang shifts smartly, like smacking magazine home in AK-47.

[Triple Jim]

You may be able to observe what leads up to the clunky shifts. For example, if you're going 50 mph and coasting to a stop sign, and you try to get back into first gear while you're still going 35, you're going to hear quite a clunk as the dogs engage and force the gears to suddenly make a big change in speed. In this example, waiting until you're down to 10 or 15 mph will allow you to get into first without the clunking.

See if you can tell what events lead up to the clunky shifts and let us know.

[jesse]

Hey Danno,

Thanks for the info! I'm afraid I'm a little too new to moto anatomy to totally follow and need a little nudge.

Which cable are you referring to? How do I know what the engagement zone is? I tried googling this and came up short.

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by jesse

Hey Danno,

Thanks for the info! I'm afraid I'm a little too new to moto anatomy to totally follow and need a little nudge.

Which cable are you referring to? How do I know what the engagement zone is? I tried googling this and came up short.

Clutch cable

[Bob KellyIII]

Adjusting the clutch isn't hard there are the cable adjusters on the clutch lever
(on the handle bars) and the ones at the other end of the cable on the engine' clutch lever.... for fine tuning you never touch the adjustments on the engine end of the clutch cable just the ones on the handle bars...
if you start the engine you can adjust WHERE the clutch enguages ( starts pulling the bike forward) by adjusting the clutch cable adjustment points
both on the handle bars and on the engine they both adjust the cable length
.....
I like my clutch to be completely free no pull at all from the engine when the clutch lever is pulled to the handle bar.... that usually means that about half way released with the clutch lever it will start pulling hard.
....
you want to adjust the clutch lever to where there is about 1/8" of movement before the cable tightens and starts moving the clutch..... that way you will not be burning up the clutch because the clutch cable is too tight.... that is critical but from there you can place the point of Engagement about anywhere on the clutch handle's throw just by adjusting the cable a bit.... well, within reason because the cable having to have some slack in it puts the engagement at a certain point.... that is where I leave it ! as long as there is a 1/8" slack in the clutch cable minimum of 1/16" max of 3/16" your good to go.... that adjustment can be done usually right on the handlebars... but you can take it too far....
too little slack at the lever will allow the clutch to slip and ware out the clutch prematurely !
too much slack and the clutch will not disengage properly which sounds like your problem.
.... so tinker with it and see if the shifting is better...
Adjust the clutch lever to where there is 1/8" slack in the cable before the cable starts pulling.... it's easy to feel
....
hope that helps we were all new at one time... there is no such thing as a stupid question when it comes to motorcycles !
.....
Bob.....

[Shafer]

What engine oil are you using?

[Bob KellyIII]

Good call Jay ! I didn't think to ask that and that does matter !
unknown to many engine oil will cause poor shifting but the oil in question has to be a really poor one.... back when I was a kid I got a 2 gal can of cheap motor oil and put it in the Honda 50cc.... it started having problems shifting
and the clutch was grabby and the engine just sounded noisy I drained out that oil and put in Valvoline and all those problems went away. quality oil is essential in motorcycles !
.....
Bob...

[Shafer]

Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII

Good call Jay ! I didn't think to ask that and that does matter !
unknown to many engine oil will cause poor shifting but the oil in question has to be a really poor one.... back when I was a kid I got a 2 gal can of cheap motor oil and put it in the Honda 50cc.... it started having problems shifting
and the clutch was grabby and the engine just sounded noisy I drained out that oil and put in Valvoline and all those problems went away. quality oil is essential in motorcycles !
.....
Bob...

Definitely don't want to start an oil war....

But from my personal experience of using Rotella t6 5w-40 on long hot rides the oil seems to fall apart and I experience notchy shifting and lot of from 1st to 2nd faults neutrals.

Normally I would not speak badly about Rotella but I can back up my statement because I have 2 07 pregens and the second bike starts doing the same behavior within minutes of mine.

Here's where I cut my own head off...

I've switched both bikes over to Mobil 4T 10w-40 and issues have disappeared and the engine and valve train is almost silent.

Just my opinion, let's focus on the issue and not turn this into another oil thread.

[Bob KellyIII]

Originally Posted by Shafer

Definitely don't want to start an oil war....

But from my personal experience of using Rotella t6 5w-40 on long hot rides the oil seems to fall apart and I experience notchy shifting and lot of from 1st to 2nd faults neutrals.

Normally I would not speak badly about Rotella but I can back up my statement because I have 2 07 pregens and the second bike starts doing the same behavior within minutes of mine.

Here's where I cut my own head off...

I've switched both bikes over to Mobil 4T 10w-40 and issues have disappeared and the engine and valve train is almost silent.

Just my opinion, let's focus on the issue and not turn this into another oil thread.

I would switch now to Valvoline 20W60 racing oil simply to "fill in the gap"
that the Thin oil caused.... 5w is just way too thin ....the recomended 10W40
is border line in my opinion... that's why I run 20W60 in the old triumph thicker oil is the way to go I've proven that with over 400k miles on a Toyota tercel by changing to progressively thicker oil as the miles stack on....
....
but yah everyone has oil favorites.... to me it's not the brand it's the viscosity that is important.... a new bike needs at least 10w to start out with
after 5000 miles to 10,000 miles you can to up a notch to thicker oil
but not much.... 25k to 50k is a better place tor 20w all the old bikes ran on 30W.... and their bearings were made for that tolerance putting 10W in a transmition that the bearings are made for 30w oil is a mistake in my mind
they haven't changed the tolerances in how roller bearings have been made
at least to my knowledge ! and there fore as soon as the piston and rings and valves have developed some ware it is time to go to thicker oil !
.... the Manufacturers know what they are doing.... they recommend a specific oil for a reason.... but ware changes things...bigger gaps open up quickly.
and need thicker oil to help the parts slide better... but if you go too thick
it will not get into the tight places like valve guides ! and they will seize.
so restraint is needed....
multigrade oil is designed to be thin when cold and as it heats up it gets thicker.... this is a good thing but that component burns out of the oil after 5,000 miles and the oil becomes the lower component of the measurement
say 10w40 becomes straight 10w .... so when Hot the engine has only 10w in it not the thicker 40w.... so changing the oil every 2,000 miles on a new bike is essential.. on a older bike every 4,000 is sufficient.
.... how do I know this.... I don't ! it's all guess work, so take it with a grain of salt .... but it is what I do, and have been doing most of my life and it works for me....
.....
Usually a Loose sounding or noisy engine when running is a great candidate for thicker oil.... I sware by 20w60 Valvoline racing oil it has never let me down !
....
Bob..

[DannoXYZ]

There's difference between how multi-viscosity range is achieved:

mineral dino oil - starts as 10w oil and viscosity thickeners are added to stretch it to 40w at higher temps. When it breaks down, it becomes 10w at operating temps

synthetic oil - starts as 40w and viscosity thinners are added to make it 10w at cold temps. When it breaks down, it remains 40w at operating temps

[Bob KellyIII]

Ahhh that is the reason so many people sware by synthetic oils I am sure.... when it brakes down it gets thicker ! .... that is nice to know ~! thanks Danno ~!
.....
Bob....

[superkain]

try changing to a new kind of oil. these ninja transmissions have a reputation for popping out of certain gears. ride clean, and use a different oil. might help