ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R > 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 28th, 2019, 03:27 PM   #1
dodgerdad
ninjette.org guru
 
dodgerdad's Avatar
 
Name: Hector
Location: SoCal
Join Date: Sep 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 272
Question Charging system problem?

I installed my new aftermarket speedo cluster and it works great however shortly after starting the engine the screen goes completely blank (but still backlit). If I turn off the ignition and switch it back on, the cluster comes back to life. Yesterday I decided to check it out.

Wiring is all good with solid solder/shrink-wrap connections. I tested the voltage to the unit and it was only getting 11.56v w/engine off and 10.94v w/engine on. I disconnected the headlight (dual h4 35w headlights) and the power went to 13.28v at idle. Could it be the dual headlight is drawing too much voltage from the charging system? (I have no other accessory/gizmos hooked up.) I relayed the problem to the manufacturer and they agree it's a symptom of insufficient voltage to the unit.

Also, my battery measured 12.74v at idle WITH the headlights and 13.70v withOUT them. I ran the bike at idle for a few minutes and when I turned off the ignition my battery measured 13.30v. 5 minutes later it was at 12.84v and 24 hours later it's at 12.65v.

All these battery numbers are telling me the battery is good but either the stator is not keeping up or the headlights are truly sucking up too much juice. I don't suspect a rectifier problem.

Does this make sense? If so, what's the best way to measure the voltage coming out of the stator?
__________________________________________________
When you see me, it's already too late.
dodgerdad is offline   Reply With Quote




Old October 28th, 2019, 04:55 PM   #2
SibSerge
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Sergey
Location: Ontario, GTA
Join Date: Oct 2019

Motorcycle(s): Ninja ZZR250 (EX250H)

Posts: 213
How old is the battery?
Did you try to boost it from a car and see if you observe the same behaviour? Dis you try to charge it with a charger?

I find 4-5 year old batteries start doing funky stuff so I just replace them when they are that old. 35W light would draw 3amps which is quite a lot fpr a small 6ah battery. You will notice it
SibSerge is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 28th, 2019, 05:58 PM   #3
InvisiBill
EX500 full of EX250 parts
 
InvisiBill's Avatar
 
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012

Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold)

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
You may want to look into a MOSFET R/R upgrade while you're at it. Due to the design differences, they're more efficient, which translates into higher output at idle, steadier output through the whole range, and less waste heat produced (which in turn means more life out of the R/R). The stocker can fail open or closed - one way just doesn't generate enough power, the other way puts out too much and fries your battery.

Most of the Shindengen MOSFET R/Rs have (fairly expensive) Furukawa connectors. You can replace the stock harness connector, buy a PnP adapter, or rig it up with generic female terminals (losing its waterproof seal in the process). Or the FH016 R/R off the '07-'08 ZX6R has wire pigtails instead, so can install any plug you want (e.g. the OEM Ninjette connector).
__________________________________________________

*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. ***
InvisiBill is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 28th, 2019, 06:28 PM   #4
dodgerdad
ninjette.org guru
 
dodgerdad's Avatar
 
Name: Hector
Location: SoCal
Join Date: Sep 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by SibSerge View Post
How old is the battery?
Did you try to boost it from a car and see if you observe the same behaviour? Dis you try to charge it with a charger?

I find 4-5 year old batteries start doing funky stuff so I just replace them when they are that old. 35W light would draw 3amps which is quite a lot fpr a small 6ah battery. You will notice it
My battery had worn down from starting it and shutting off repeatedly so I put it on the charger and charged it 100% before doing the tests above.

The battery is 13 months old.
__________________________________________________
When you see me, it's already too late.
dodgerdad is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 28th, 2019, 07:22 PM   #5
SibSerge
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Sergey
Location: Ontario, GTA
Join Date: Oct 2019

Motorcycle(s): Ninja ZZR250 (EX250H)

Posts: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgerdad View Post
My battery had worn down from starting it and shutting off repeatedly so I put it on the charger and charged it 100% before doing the tests above.

The battery is 13 months old.
That's not old for a battery. the cluster might also be sensitive to fluctuations of the system voltage. Try measuring the voltage when you load is all connected but switch your voltmeter into AC mode. Check how big those fluctuations are. If you have an access to an oscilloscope it's even better. The higher the current draw the higher the fluctuations are. The alternator can keep up with the draw , the rectifier can but the filter might be small for this load.
If you see bulbs flickering then it's an indication the voltage fluctuates. The bulbs in general do not care , you just see it as a flicker, with higher RPMs and thus the frequency of the flicker your eye will not even register it. But if the cluster contains electronics it could be a big deal.
This can be addressed by adding a polarity sensitive capacitor in proximity to the cluster. It will be able to maintain the voltage level needed for the cluster unit.
SibSerge is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 28th, 2019, 08:07 PM   #6
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
What's the battery voltage with everything on as usual, and you rev the engine to something like 3,000-4,000 rpm?
Triple Jim is online now   Reply With Quote


Old October 31st, 2019, 03:25 PM   #7
dodgerdad
ninjette.org guru
 
dodgerdad's Avatar
 
Name: Hector
Location: SoCal
Join Date: Sep 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by SibSerge View Post
That's not old for a battery. the cluster might also be sensitive to fluctuations of the system voltage. Try measuring the voltage when you load is all connected but switch your voltmeter into AC mode. Check how big those fluctuations are. If you have an access to an oscilloscope it's even better. The higher the current draw the higher the fluctuations are. The alternator can keep up with the draw , the rectifier can but the filter might be small for this load.
If you see bulbs flickering then it's an indication the voltage fluctuates. The bulbs in general do not care , you just see it as a flicker, with higher RPMs and thus the frequency of the flicker your eye will not even register it. But if the cluster contains electronics it could be a big deal.
This can be addressed by adding a polarity sensitive capacitor in proximity to the cluster. It will be able to maintain the voltage level needed for the cluster unit.
I have the battery at full charge and installed an voltage capacitor/filter and it seems to have cleared up the problem (with no headlights connected). I cycled it on and off many times and no failure. Voltage going to cluster is at 13.13v.

Thanks for your input!
__________________________________________________
When you see me, it's already too late.
dodgerdad is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 31st, 2019, 03:26 PM   #8
dodgerdad
ninjette.org guru
 
dodgerdad's Avatar
 
Name: Hector
Location: SoCal
Join Date: Sep 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
What's the battery voltage with everything on as usual, and you rev the engine to something like 3,000-4,000 rpm?
It's around 13.84v at 4k (no headlights).
__________________________________________________
When you see me, it's already too late.
dodgerdad is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 31st, 2019, 03:30 PM   #9
dodgerdad
ninjette.org guru
 
dodgerdad's Avatar
 
Name: Hector
Location: SoCal
Join Date: Sep 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 272
Final numbers & question

So with my battery charged up it measures:

12.54v with dual headlights on (and seems to run a bit rough)
13.90v with no headlights
13.89 with stock (single) headlight

My questions is, does my charging system appear to be healthy? If so, I'll likely replace my dual headlight set-up with a single.
__________________________________________________
When you see me, it's already too late.
dodgerdad is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 31st, 2019, 04:11 PM   #10
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Yeah, system doesn’t have much overhead in stock trim. Even with more efficient RR, stator’s output is still limited.

To reduce load, go to Philips X-treme Ultinon bulb. It’s only one designed to replace filament bulb in reflector assembly without causing glare into oncoming traffic’s eyes.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 31st, 2019, 06:32 PM   #11
dodgerdad
ninjette.org guru
 
dodgerdad's Avatar
 
Name: Hector
Location: SoCal
Join Date: Sep 2018

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Yeah, system doesn’t have much overhead in stock trim. Even with more efficient RR, stator’s output is still limited.

To reduce load, go to Philips X-treme Ultinon bulb. It’s only one designed to replace filament bulb in reflector assembly without causing glare into oncoming traffic’s eyes.
Hadn't heard of them, looked them up and they are steep! I think I'm gonna take the bike out for a test ride (headlights disconnected) then if all goes well I'll just shop for a single headlight assembly.
__________________________________________________
When you see me, it's already too late.
dodgerdad is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 31st, 2019, 08:46 PM   #12
SibSerge
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Sergey
Location: Ontario, GTA
Join Date: Oct 2019

Motorcycle(s): Ninja ZZR250 (EX250H)

Posts: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgerdad View Post
I have the battery at full charge and installed an voltage capacitor/filter and it seems to have cleared up the problem (with no headlights connected). I cycled it on and off many times and no failure. Voltage going to cluster is at 13.13v.

Thanks for your input!
I am glad it worked!
SibSerge is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Charging system inspection after battery died TylerLew89 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 4 July 5th, 2016 06:34 PM
Ninja Charging System fits my GS1000!! kxpower? The Ex-Ninjetters Lair 3 March 16th, 2016 06:42 PM
Intermittent charging system failure ugh!!! kxpower? 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 10 October 8th, 2014 06:18 AM
Charging Problem Nstoltz 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 7 May 19th, 2012 01:06 PM
alternator/battery/charging related problem mrkyo 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 6 May 2nd, 2010 05:41 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:54 PM.


Website uptime monitoring Host-tracker.com
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are © Copyright 2022 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.