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Old July 1st, 2017, 10:02 PM   #1
Yakaru
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Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012

Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R)

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MOTM - Jun '16
Trackday @ The Ridge: July 1 2017

Went in for another round... Just over a week before I see @Misti and I hope to have myself in decent shape so she can make something of my time!

Had 7 sessions, with some interesting occurrences:
Session 1: Followed J, one my new 'pit buddies', to help her analyze her habits and give advice. I focused on wide view -- generally a good starter but interesting and valuable to do while tailing. Don't let myself get sucked into what J's doing, but analyze the whole situation.

Session 2-4: Gave some advice to J and went over some bike theory. Under the 'one thing at a time' mantra we went out and I would demo the improvement to her to start the session and then we swapped by having her pass me on the straight towards the end. We worked on turning points, reference points, and line analysis. I also spent some time working on my own throttle control and body position a little. I love teaching, and by the end of session 4 J was a completely different rider. She even dragged knee for the first time while following me (which means my student beat me to the punch, as I still haven't!) and then did it again later in the day.

Session 5-6: I went through my old CSS notes from last year and decided I wanted to work on 'looking early' for my 3 step. This started to feel more natural and I was definitely glad I spent more time on it.

Session 7: After 6 one of the local riders gave some advice on body positioning to J and I. It sounded a bit different than I'd heard before and seemed worth at least trying to see how it felt compared to what I'd been doing. I don't want to try describing it [badly] here, but I may try to if/when I do a BP update next week. I decided to back my pace /way/ down for the session since it was different enough to take a lot of my budget. I definitely see what he was getting at but I also feel really off my game using it -- more than once my line went wonky in a way I wasn't expecting, usually wide; which made me glad I was giving myself the margin. I scribbled some notes down to talk with CSS next week; BP was already on my hit list but this gives me more questions.

Interesting lessons:

* I love teaching. I knew this already, but seeing the improvement of my "student" as the day went on was one of the most amazing track experiences I've had.
* leading a slower rider on a track is an interesting challenge. I don't have coms or mirrors so I have to sort of infer the right pace. Stack the vast difference in bikes and it gets even harder (I'm on my rev-limited S1000, J's on a 600cc sport bike).
* Working on relaxing. I'm getting okay, I think, at not carrying weight in my arms but my thighs/hip-flexors are definitely feeling the burn -- don't know if that's good or a sign I'm fighting things too much.

Next week I'll be at the Ridge with California Superbike on Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. There may also be a 'bonus' track day to top it off at the end but my body may not have it in me after 4 days of focused school. I'm really hoping I have gotten myself in a good position to improve.
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Old July 7th, 2017, 09:03 AM   #2
Misti
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Name: Misti
Location: Vancouver, BC
Join Date: Oct 2010

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Posts: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
Went in for another round... Just over a week before I see @Misti and I hope to have myself in decent shape so she can make something of my time!

Had 7 sessions, with some interesting occurrences:
Session 1: Followed J, one my new 'pit buddies', to help her analyze her habits and give advice. I focused on wide view -- generally a good starter but interesting and valuable to do while tailing. Don't let myself get sucked into what J's doing, but analyze the whole situation.

Session 2-4: Gave some advice to J and went over some bike theory. Under the 'one thing at a time' mantra we went out and I would demo the improvement to her to start the session and then we swapped by having her pass me on the straight towards the end. We worked on turning points, reference points, and line analysis. I also spent some time working on my own throttle control and body position a little. I love teaching, and by the end of session 4 J was a completely different rider. She even dragged knee for the first time while following me (which means my student beat me to the punch, as I still haven't!) and then did it again later in the day.

Session 5-6: I went through my old CSS notes from last year and decided I wanted to work on 'looking early' for my 3 step. This started to feel more natural and I was definitely glad I spent more time on it.

Session 7: After 6 one of the local riders gave some advice on body positioning to J and I. It sounded a bit different than I'd heard before and seemed worth at least trying to see how it felt compared to what I'd been doing. I don't want to try describing it [badly] here, but I may try to if/when I do a BP update next week. I decided to back my pace /way/ down for the session since it was different enough to take a lot of my budget. I definitely see what he was getting at but I also feel really off my game using it -- more than once my line went wonky in a way I wasn't expecting, usually wide; which made me glad I was giving myself the margin. I scribbled some notes down to talk with CSS next week; BP was already on my hit list but this gives me more questions.

Interesting lessons:

* I love teaching. I knew this already, but seeing the improvement of my "student" as the day went on was one of the most amazing track experiences I've had.
* leading a slower rider on a track is an interesting challenge. I don't have coms or mirrors so I have to sort of infer the right pace. Stack the vast difference in bikes and it gets even harder (I'm on my rev-limited S1000, J's on a 600cc sport bike).
* Working on relaxing. I'm getting okay, I think, at not carrying weight in my arms but my thighs/hip-flexors are definitely feeling the burn -- don't know if that's good or a sign I'm fighting things too much.

Next week I'll be at the Ridge with California Superbike on Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. There may also be a 'bonus' track day to top it off at the end but my body may not have it in me after 4 days of focused school. I'm really hoping I have gotten myself in a good position to improve.
Nice write up! Glad you are taking the time to work on specific things and get yourself ready as well as taking good notes. Also love your experience of leading your friend and realizing how rewarding it is to see someone improve!! That's why I love my job so much!!

I'm curious to know what body position suggestions you were trying and a little bit more about how that affected your riding. Why don't we discuss here before you hit the track?

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Old July 8th, 2017, 07:52 AM   #3
Yakaru
The Violet Vixen
 
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Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012

Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R)

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misti View Post
Nice write up! Glad you are taking the time to work on specific things and get yourself ready as well as taking good notes. Also love your experience of leading your friend and realizing how rewarding it is to see someone improve!! That's why I love my job so much!!

I'm curious to know what body position suggestions you were trying and a little bit more about how that affected your riding. Why don't we discuss here before you hit the track?

Thanks Misti

This is the closest Youtube I could find to his advice. Now first off, this youtube has a lot of things wrong with it, but it does have the points I was trying in it too.

Link to original page on YouTube.

The main two differences from what I experimented with were:

1. "Kiss your elbow" -- this seems way more exaggerated than I've been trying; I go out more (or rather, try to) than "kiss the mirrors" but I try to stay in more alignment with the bike than Kiss the elbow.

2. Arm up. I tend to let my inside arm sort of 'fall into place' (not completely limp but very relaxed) and lay my outside arm across the tank. I was advised to actively keep my inside arm 'up'. This definitely feels like it pulls me off the bike more when I take position, but holding it there through the turn feels awkward and my arm got a bit tired pretty quickly, which made me tense and messed up my lines pretty bad.

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Old July 8th, 2017, 10:14 AM   #4
cbinker
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Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
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Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build

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MOTM - Sep '15
one thing to consider about body position: It evolves with Unregistered. You have to go with is right for you at the moment. If you are getting tight muscles (quads or calves) then you are no longer being efficient on the motorcycle. Ive done a fast lap in an uncomfortable position, but thats all it was is 1 lap and then everything was tight.
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Old July 22nd, 2017, 08:01 PM   #5
Misti
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Name: Misti
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posts: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
Thanks Misti

This is the closest Youtube I could find to his advice. Now first off, this youtube has a lot of things wrong with it, but it does have the points I was trying in it too.

Link to original page on YouTube.

The main two differences from what I experimented with were:

1. "Kiss your elbow" -- this seems way more exaggerated than I've been trying; I go out more (or rather, try to) than "kiss the mirrors" but I try to stay in more alignment with the bike than Kiss the elbow.

2. Arm up. I tend to let my inside arm sort of 'fall into place' (not completely limp but very relaxed) and lay my outside arm across the tank. I was advised to actively keep my inside arm 'up'. This definitely feels like it pulls me off the bike more when I take position, but holding it there through the turn feels awkward and my arm got a bit tired pretty quickly, which made me tense and messed up my lines pretty bad.

OMG I'm sorry I can't even watch this video there are so many points i disagree with. Remember when I made you and Paul hold out your hands? Remember what I did? Next time I'm going to do the same thing for wasting 7 minutes of your time watching this when you already have the fundamentals from all the CSS classes you take!!

Your body position has evolved so much and so well over the course of your time at the school. It has been something that has been difficult for you to undue (you had some bad habits) but you have progressed and this latest school was the best I had seen it. There were still things to work on (as you found out with the suggestion LYLE gave you on the last day) but there were more important things I wanted to focus on first.

So, you mention trying to kiss your elbow and that to me is just too much work and movement. when you watch me ride, or any of the coaches at the school the thing is that we don't move around on the bike very much. This guy in the video is telling people to basically stand up and huck your body over to the side WAY far. Imagine doing that all day and how tired you'd be after the first session, not to mention how unnecessary that is. He doesn't mention anything about having a stable lower body in order to remain connected to the motorcycle so you'd end up using your arms to hold the bars and drag yourself across.....if you try and kiss your elbow you end up too low and then all you have to do is move over farther when you switch directions. It's TOO MUCH WORK. It's silly (not to mention the fact that he thinks the throttle makes the bike run wide) ugh. seriously. Just get your head over to the inside of the bike as if you were kissing your hand or the mirror, not the freekin ground....

2. Arm up? again, no. Inside arm relaxed, elbow pointed to the ground, "jazz hands" on the bars. Less work, no tension...you know this stuff.

Just continue to work on stabilizing your lower body, knee to knee and hip flick to get you across the bike quickly. Setting up early and pinching the tank with your knees. As LYLE said, point your hips into the turn, you've progressed so much.

and stop watching silly youtube videos

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Old July 22nd, 2017, 08:17 PM   #6
Yakaru
The Violet Vixen
 
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Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012

Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R)

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '16
LOL Thanks Misti

No, this video was HORRIBLE I agree (and apologize for your time being spent on it!) -- I only found it trying to find anyone else suggesting what I was advised at the track (which I already found suspicious) and this is what I came upon. The awkwardness with which I rode when experimenting with it and the fact that every other piece of it was something I already knew was wrong mostly cemented in my head that it wasn't the way to go. The tiny gain of getting farther down with "elbow up" didn't make up for the incredible awkwardness.

Your help/advice on keeping my hipflick/knee-to-knee from disrupting the bike combined with Lyle helping me figure out that I needed to 'arc' my hips around a bit into the corner did more for my BP than any track rider advice has ever approached -- and that's just from last week!

I won't deny I've had (and have) bad habits and such, but it's why I'm glad I started my track with school instead of just doing track days.
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Old July 22nd, 2017, 08:23 PM   #7
Misti
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Name: Misti
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posts: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
LOL Thanks Misti

No, this video was HORRIBLE I agree (and apologize for your time being spent on it!) -- I only found it trying to find anyone else suggesting what I was advised at the track (which I already found suspicious) and this is what I came upon. The awkwardness with which I rode when experimenting with it and the fact that every other piece of it was something I already knew was wrong mostly cemented in my head that it wasn't the way to go. The tiny gain of getting farther down with "elbow up" didn't make up for the incredible awkwardness.

Your help/advice on keeping my hipflick/knee-to-knee from disrupting the bike combined with Lyle helping me figure out that I needed to 'arc' my hips around a bit into the corner did more for my BP than any track rider advice has ever approached -- and that's just from last week!

I won't deny I've had (and have) bad habits and such, but it's why I'm glad I started my track with school instead of just doing track days.
Hahaha. Cool. I don't have to slap your hand (again) after all

Well done on the last series of schools. In case you didn't get the full emphasis when I told you (I was kinda tired). You did a GREAT JOB and your riding was WAY WAY WAY better than anything i'd seen from you before and you have the lap times to prove it.
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Old July 22nd, 2017, 08:24 PM   #8
Yakaru
The Violet Vixen
 
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Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012

Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R)

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misti View Post
Hahaha. Cool. I don't have to slap your hand (again) after all

Well done on the last series of schools. In case you didn't get the full emphasis when I told you (I was kinda tired). You did a GREAT JOB and your riding was WAY WAY WAY better than anything i'd seen from you before and you have the lap times to prove it.
Just means I have to step up that much more when I see you next year! I was super proud of how I was doing until I did my sketchy pass. My shame knows no bounds!
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Old July 22nd, 2017, 08:31 PM   #9
Misti
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Name: Misti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
Just means I have to step up that much more when I see you next year! I was super proud of how I was doing until I did my sketchy pass. My shame knows no bounds!
Meh, we all make sketchy passes sometimes by accident, myself included. Point is that it was only ONE in a host of really well planned and executed and super safe passes. All good. We kind of EXPECT students to make sketchy passes hence the reason we have the mirrors on, not only to watch our students and gauge leading distance but to be able to get out of the way if we see a sketchy pass on the horizon

All good, you rocked out there!
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