Greenaero's Ninja Hypermiling project

[sendler]

I don't know what it would take to get it registered in the USA but a Canadian CBR125R would be an unbeatable fuel economy competition machine for the Vetter Challanges.
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[greenaero]

Scott, Interesting about the CBR125R,a concern would be if it had enough power to keep up the pace at the more demanding Vetter Challenges( Bonneville and to a lesser extent Hollister ). Around 20 horsepower seems to be about the lower limit to what is needed. I'll have to check out the specsbut that may be worthy of serious consideration. Thanks!

[sendler]

A fully streamlined CBR125R with longer gearing would keep up. Barely if it is not too hilly. Even though it has only 14hp. But wouldn't be as fast when loaded down for a cross country trip.
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Yours and Alan's pregen Ninjas are doing astonishing numbers so I don't know if a CBR250R would ever do much better even if the low revving, fuel injected, single, should be better on paper.

[greenaero]

It looks like the CBR125 tops out at about 92 mph so in theory it should fast enough. It would be somewhat of a challenge to get my hands so one. So, if I can find an acceptable CBR250R I may jump ship to the Honda camp. 200 mpg is calling....

[sendler]

A stock CBR125R is 14 hp and is lucky to hit 70 mph but would be better with longer gearing and streamlining. As long as you are not fully loaded up hill. A streamlined CBR250R should theoretically be much more fuel efficient than a Ninja250 but 150 mpgUS is hard to beat.

[Somchai]

Hey Vic and Scott,
I know it's a different story, but did you ever think about hybrid?

[sendler]

It would be possible I suppose. But as Craig says " Don't make it more trouble than it is worth". Hybrids only really help in stop and go scenarios. Though it would tend to make a CBR125R more comfortable at holding speed up some of the shorter hills.

[greenaero]

@Somchai, I haven't considered hybrids but have thought about an electric moto. They are still pretty expensive and I try to limit my budget so that my hypermiling actually saves money. Terry Hershner has won a Vetter Challenge ( Bonneville 2014) on his streamlined Zero. But I was still able to beat him when I won at the 2014 San Luis Obispo Challenge. Looking at what Terry has done with his Zero I see the potential to do better but it would take a lot of $$$ and a steep learning curve for me to be competitive with an electric moto.
At this point I am still inclined to keep working on getting a gasoline powered moto into the winner's circle. Also since the Challenges are won by lowest cost of fuel to go the distance, the current low cost of gasoline favors conventional ICE powered motos.

My latest mods have been trying to design some additional panels to smooth the air flow past my helmet and shoulders. I made some folding flaps on the windscreen but had problems with them lifting as I hit freeway speeds. Also they it hard to check my mirrors and gauges. Back to the drawing board.

I had to work on the tail bodywork as it was sagging down and causing some drag on the rear tire. I removed it and made some different mounting struts so that the top the front bulkhead of the tailsection is better supported by the rear of the frame. I tested it briefly yesterday and it seems to be big improvement.

[greenaero]

After some reflection I've decided it's time to move on to a new moto for next year's competitions. My '99 Ninjette has done some incredible things( 3 Overall Vetter Fuel Economy Challenge wins, 5 conventional fuel class wins, a best performance of 235 mpg/0.9 cents per mile) during the past 6 years but standing still is falling behind in competition. When I first started competing I thought winning was improbable with my low budget effort but through hard work and perserverence I broke through the barriers.
I have removed all the bodywork and returned the moto to its stock gearing. It's a shame there is not a market yet for streamlined motos. It will be bittersweet to sell it. But I will continue on with the Vetter fiberglass nose on my next streamliner.
I won't be leaving the Ninjette fold totally as I will continue on with my 2005 partially streamlined Ninjette with the aerotrunk.

[DannoXYZ]

Nice work! Your mods gave some ideas for my race-bike. More aero is also faster for same power!

My wife's CB125T gets 100mpg and it's not even faired!

I think converting to EFI will give you big improvements. You can do lean-burn at cruising 16:1 AFR or so.

["A"]

So solar electric assist bicycle next?

[greenaero]

Originally Posted by "A"

So solar electric assist bicycle next?

Actually I'm very interested in electric assisted bikes. Unfortunately they currently wouldn't work for the Vetter Challenge ( not fast enough; ability to go 70 mph into a 30 mph headwind). I do think they have awesome potential for urban/suburban transportation.

Originally Posted by JacRyann

Nice work! Your mods gave some ideas for my race-bike. More aero is also faster for same power!

My wife's CB125T gets 100mpg and it's not even faired!

I think converting to EFI will give you big improvements. You can do lean-burn at cruising 16:1 AFR or so.

thanks! I'm glad you found the incredible advantage of reducing aerodynamic drag on your moto. I had thought about streamlining a 125cc moto but they are just short of the power needed for Vetter Challenges with sustained high speed sections. I am very excited about working with EFI to get better fuel economy.

[DannoXYZ]

One thing that really helps MPGs on autos is EGR. With many under cruising, up to 40-50% of intake is exhaust. This reduces pumping-losses due to intake-manifold vacuum (less difference between pre-throttle vs. post-throttle pressures). Pistons don't have to fight mostly-closed throttle on their intake-stroke. Power to generate this vacuum comes from other pistons on power-stroke.

[greenaero]

I sold the 1999 Ninjette last Sunday to a young woman who will be starting motorcycling. She was from Sacramento so we decided to meet halfway so I got to ride it for about 40 miles the final time on a beautiful day here in NorCal. Since I restored the gearing to the stock 14/45 configuration, I enjoyed the brisk acceleration but was dismayed by the screaming amount of rpms needed to cruise the collider zones of Hwys 580, 280, and 5. Still it ran beautifully as it always has over my last 6 years of ownership. I wish I was rich enough to put it in a museum but I need the funds to move on to my next project. This was a great moto and I will always have fond memories of it.

[CaliGrrl]

Nice to know it's going to a good home and someone who will appreciate her!

["A"]

Originally Posted by greenaero

I enjoyed the brisk acceleration but was dismayed by the screaming amount of rpms needed to cruise the collider zones of Hwys 580, 280, and 5.

Screaming amount of rpm is what pre-gen Ninja 250 engine is meant to perform at.

If you want an engine for low fuel consumption with high output at low rpm.. Ninja 250 engine probably was not he ideal one to start with.
I'd think something like a 250 single engine with good amount of lowend torque and CVT trans.

[jkv45]

What's the next project Vic?

CBR250R based?

[greenaero]

Originally Posted by CaliGrrl

Nice to know it's going to a good home and someone who will appreciate her!

Yes, I referred her to our forum, hopefully she will join.

Originally Posted by "A"

Screaming amount of rpm is what pre-gen Ninja 250 engine is meant to perform at.

If you want an engine for low fuel consumption with high output at low rpm.. Ninja 250 engine probably was not he ideal one to start with.
I'd think something like a 250 single engine with good amount of lowend torque and CVT trans.

Agreed, the Ninjette has performed great despite its design. I will be switching to a fuel-injected single cylinder. I'm not sure if CVT is more efficient than traditional manual chain drive.

Originally Posted by jkv45

What's the next project Vic?

CBR250R based?

Hi Jay, Yes, I'll be looking at some CBR250Rs tomorrow. I also found a CBR150R but it is carbureted so I will pass on it.

["A"]

Originally Posted by greenaero

Agreed, the Ninjette has performed great despite its design. I will be switching to a fuel-injected single cylinder. I'm not sure if CVT is more efficient than traditional manual chain drive.

Yes, chain drive actually has a lot more friction vs CVT, or certain type of CVT.
Belt-drive CVT is lighter, depending on the optimal speed you need during the competition, you can likely built your own CVT drum top accommodate the optimal speed and have the single engine reving at 3-4k rpm or whereever the torque peak is. Likely even use an air/oil-cooled engine to lighter your vehicle even more.

["A"]

Interesting article with human-powered vehicle speed records..

World Human Powered Speed Challenge

[greenaero]

Originally Posted by "A"

Interesting article with human-powered vehicle speed records..

World Human Powered Speed Challenge

Great stuff! I was going to go check this out but unfortunately wasn't able to make the trip to Battle Mountain NV.

Now that I'm without a fully streamlined moto, I have started the baseline testing for my next project. Alan Smith and I rode our test loop yesterday ( Livermore CA to Patterson ), he on his modified KLR650 and me on my stock 2011 Honda CBR250R. He got 80mpg for a best on this moto and I got 88mpg.