December 8th, 2010, 11:51 PM | #81 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Domagoj
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
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But that is why in europe small city cars which have small engines and mpg same as the ninjette exist. You could buy a VW Lupo 3L which made over 70mpg almost 10 years ago. There was a topgear UK episode in which Clarkson made 50mpg with V8 audi. Religious zealots? :P Now thats really paranoid isnt it? There are religious zealots in every religion and i doubt they will stop throwing bombs at innocent people because they have electric engines instead of combustion engines. Thats why they are religious and not anti-petrol zealots Nevermind the joke, but seriously, if you want to do something you are going to do it one way or another. If you dont want the gasoline someone else is going to buy it, and they will still get the money they need. That is assuming that terrorist organizations are being funded by mid east governments, which i doubt. I was unfortunate enough to spend this summer in Abu Dhabi, and you would be surpirsed at how much of the stuff there is actually american! Those guys dont want you dead. |
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December 9th, 2010, 08:13 AM | #82 | ||
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Frugal
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW)
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Just thought I'd post the actual meaning. WRT to what I wrote, much of the money floating around in the middle east, and 100% of our interests and presence there, is due to oil. Nothing else but that. If nobody bought oil from there, they'd still be a backwater with nomads and camels. Though great culture and science came from that region in the past (the mathematical concept of zero was invented there, for instance) once the fundamental/conservative Islamics became dominant and the governments stopped being secular the area went to hell. But with us buying oil from there trillions of dollars have flowed into the region, and like with any river of money the fundamentalists/conservatives have tapped into it to further their own goals, using whatever methods (including terrorism) they can. The hundreds of thousands of dollars Osama bin Ladin spent to run the operation that brought down the World Trade Center came from his family's construction business, which was in turn fueled by the money flowing into the middle east for the most part from oil sales to the US. To some extent, the money I and everyone else here spent on gasoline up to September 11, 2001 paid for that act of terrorism. No delusion, no fantasy, no sense of persecution false or otherwise. Just plain old facts easy enough for anyone to independently verify, if they choose to. I can tell something to someone, but I surely can't understand it for them. But I digress... This thread is about the Brammo, a really cool bike that I'd buy if I could afford to. Let's keep it about that. |
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December 9th, 2010, 10:11 AM | #83 | |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
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December 9th, 2010, 11:09 AM | #84 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Frugal
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW)
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http://www.forbes.com/2001/09/14/0914ladenmoney.html Disowned or not, he was, and may still be, quite wealthy, and that wealth came nearly directly from oil. |
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December 9th, 2010, 11:34 AM | #85 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
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If folks believe that trying to use a little less gas on their morning commute is going to do a whit to combat global terrorism, more power to them. Any incentive to do a good deed, no matter how unlikely or unsubstantiated, is reason enough to do it as long as someone believes it. And everything else being equal, conservation of just about anything is a greater good than lack of conservation.
Of course a couple key points should at least be digested if someone wants to know how much of an effect their actions are likely to have: - it should be understood that OPEC oil is further down the list of US imports than anyone believes - a good portion of the oil imports have nothing to do with transportation - even if there was a more direct link to US transportation usage and mideast imports, and we somehow stopped purchasing a single barrel as of tomorrow, that region can sell all they want all day long to growing economies like India and China. Most would agree the US security situation long-term bodes better for us having a better trade and diplomatic relationship with that portion of the world than future superpower rivals would aspire to. In those terms, terrorism is a nit.
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December 9th, 2010, 03:24 PM | #86 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Frugal
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No matter, principles are what counts... |
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December 9th, 2010, 04:05 PM | #87 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Dan
Location: JerZ
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 05 Ninjette Posts: 131
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Oh my god, where did the thread go? I read the first post and now the last few.
Anyway I'm definitely interested in these however after reading the specs, the tech is not proprietary manufacturers out there already so I'll wait just a little bit to see better design/cheaper price. |
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December 9th, 2010, 05:08 PM | #88 | |
Wartown, USA
Name: Bryan
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R SE, 2007 Ninja 650R, and assorted other bikes Posts: A lot.
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The batteries are only good for so many charging cycles, and at the usage that thing is likely to see....im guessing 5 years tops before you are doing a complete overhaul at half the price of the bike. Unfortunatly, the motors, whether coreless or brushless, they too wear out after a couple of years too. Just not worth it at all. A ninja 250R is still a much better value. Longer distances, you can "recharge" it in seconds at a gas pump, and it will last much longer. |
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December 10th, 2010, 09:44 AM | #89 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Frugal
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In any case, the Brammo is the first production EV bike I've seen that I'd buy if I had the money. Plenty of people have no problem making $15K purchases (look at all the new cars, trucks, and large bikes on the road today) so it's not strictly a money issue. And, for many riders the Brammo would make a perfect daily commutor; I know it would for me. Here's hoping that Brammo is able to overcome the obstacles of technology and personality to succeed. It's only through volume sales that prices will go down in a new market, so the more that buy now the quicker the technology will become more affordable for me. |
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December 10th, 2010, 11:43 AM | #90 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
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If you're referring to me Frugal, you're way off base (I'm not sure if I'm in that group, but just in case). I tend to find EV cheerleaders and EV bashers equally off-base on their stated reasons for buying or not buying, and I fully agree with your point that people will buy what they want for whatever reasons they want. That's the way it is, it's the way it should be, and there's absolutely no problem with that.
Anyone else ascribing why someone else should be considering them, or even worse, why someone needs to be considering them if they only had more information, is where the train goes off the rails for me. I enjoyed this recent article in our news section here about a tremendously capable electric racebike, with plans to compete not only with similarly-powered machines, but head-to-head with conventional literbikes, at least at a club racing level. Looks like a fun project! For what it's worth, I also thoroughly enjoyed watching the e-bike race held at Laguna during the MotoGP weekend this past summer, with the MotoCzysz bike passing its much faster competitor in the final straight to take the win by only a few lengths. (link)
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December 10th, 2010, 12:13 PM | #91 |
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December 10th, 2010, 06:24 PM | #92 | |
ninjette.org addict
Name: Jimmy
Location: SoCal
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December 12th, 2010, 11:42 PM | #93 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: Indianapolis
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December 13th, 2010, 12:06 AM | #94 |
Humble Observer
Name: Truong
Location: Augusta, Maine
Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Yamaha XT250 Posts: 612
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I like to have the option of working on my bike's powerplant easily. Batteries, electronic controllers, and electric motors prevent that.
Interesting look to the machine, but a more conventional styling would be better. I get that is a new paradigm in motorcycling, but a form change to reflect the new direction is unnecessary. Edgy doesn't equate to unique or better. The next bit is a little rant-ish, I say this up front: Who is gonna step up and figure out an E-bike for the masses; something close to what Honda did with the Cub? Instead of designing boutique battery racers for well-funded track junkies, someone build a realistic, everyman sort of buzz-along. If Brammo and Motoczsyzch (was I even close on the spelling?) want to tap the guys who would buy a Desmosedici, I think I'll keep an eye on Zero and their promising dual purpose whizzer.
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Everything I post is "IN MY HONEST OPINION". Why is "Parking Lot Enduro" not a thing? |
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December 13th, 2010, 11:18 AM | #95 | ||||
ninjette.org member
Name: Bill
Location: Palm Bay, FL
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 82 XV750, 99 DR200SE, 04 DR200SE, 08 DR200SE, 95 EX250 Posts: 71
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I’m interested to see after reading more of this thread, that what is usually cited as the number one reason people will shun electric vehicles – limited range – doesn’t seem to be prevalent in the discussion.
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I'd be up for changing out the bearings on an electric motor over changing the timing chain or camshaft bearings on a gas engine any day of the week - it's faster and easier to do. Gas motorcycles are just a lot more complicated than electrics: Code:
Typical Electric Typical Gas *Batteries (maintenance Free) *Battery (flooded lead-acid) *Electric Motor *Electric Motor (starter) *12v Headlight/Signals *12v Headlight/Signals *High voltage motor controller *High voltage ignition controller *Chain drive *Chain Drive *Battery Charger / Monitor *Carburetor or FI and vacuum circuits *Brakes *Brakes *Tires/Wheels/Bearings *Tires/Wheels/Bearings *Electronic circuits for FI if FI equipped *Fuel Tank, filters and petcocks *Engine Coolant circulating pump *Thermostat control *Radiator and electric fan system *Oil pump, filtration and sump *Oil level/pressure sensing circuits *Fuel/exhaust valves in engine *Timing chains to operate valves *Multi-speed transmission gearing *Clutch mechanism Quote:
For prismatic LiFePO4 cells, you're talking about 3,000 to 5,000 cycles. So on a bike with 40 mile range, they're going to be seeing end of life around 160,000 miles. To be fair in comparison, internal combustion motorcycles rarely are used to over 100,000 miles without being considered worn out, and people usually don't consider the cost of engine replacement in their cost per mile either. The Ninja 250 engine lifespan is typically 50K to 60K miles. I would expect the cost of 3 new engines is more than a new pack of batteries for a similar sized electric. Used engines would of course be cheaper, but so would used batteries - though they are far less common yet. Quote:
None of the above are reasons that people need to give up their gassers and jump on electrics, I'm just sharing what I believe is a balanced perspective. My motivation for going electric was purely that it looked like a fun challenge and project to undertake. I'm looking forward to riding a bike that is unique, and for sure converting a motorcycle to electric power is less expensive and difficult (at least from my point of view) than a car, and more rewarding, since I prefer riding over driving. My choice of a Ninja 250 for the conversion hinged finding one at a bargain price, and because it's been in production so long, there's both a market for the gas related parts I've stripped off to help fund the conversion and easy availability of any used parts I might need. Last futzed with by billmi; December 13th, 2010 at 12:25 PM. |
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December 14th, 2010, 05:09 AM | #96 |
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Name: rock
Location: greenville, south carolina
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): black Posts: A lot.
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When EV's become more appealing to car/bike enthusiasts, the money will increase for the manufacturers, the technology will will rise at a faster rate and the costs to the end user will go down. Coz hey, if Alex gets that titanium housed capacitor for added boost on accel... imna have to get the one in carbon fiber that has even more juice storage soz I can wup up on him down at the local strip while looking even more badazz
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