New UK drug laws

[Ninjinsky]

UK riders need to be aware of the new roadside drug testing laws.
Sounds reasonable until you see the very low threshold and the fact that no impairment needs to be proven. They can now take you to the station for testing for the full spectrum of drugs even if nothing is found at the roadside and you were driving fine.
Okay I don't use drugs (apart from zantac ) but I am concerned about the civil liberty implications over here.
They weasel word "over legal limits" as if to imply they are catching "blitzed" drivers but of course the 'legal limit' for pot, cocaine etc is anything over zero.
As the cliche goes "There are two reasons for everything the government does the one given and the real one.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/561...in-UK-Tomorrow

[ninjamunky85]

Wow! That's some scary stuff. It pretty much allows the cops to pull anyone over, without cause, and to then test them for illegal drugs without any suspicion or consent... That's crazy!!! I mean they can kind of already do that here with seat belt laws, but this seems to be taking it to a new level

I'm sure there are those who will say, "don't do anything illegal, and you'll have nothing to worry about". That kind of invasion of privacy would have me worried though because you have to wonder what's next?.. If they're going to start drug testing you in your car, why not on the street when walking around, or at your house?

Let's be honest, it's not about keeping people safe, it's about power and money. Just like the drunk driving laws we have in the U.S.. Now I obviously don't condone driving drunk, but I know people who can drive better drunk than some people drive sober. How about we just have a crack down on BAD DRIVERS!!!

Driving while you're on the phone, or doing your makeup, or shaving, or eating a big mac or whatever can be just as dangerous as driving drunk. But if you get pulled over for being all over the road because you were texting you don't go to jail, get your car impounded, and pay thousands of $$$ in fines.

Rant over

BTW I've never been pulled over for driving under the influence of anything, but I know more than a few people that have.

[liberpolly]

Every test has plenty of false positives, especially if the legal limit is zero.

Here in US, they do it so they can confiscate your property, and now you have to prove that you are not guilty - it's called "civil forfeiture". Do they have anything similar in UK? That could explain draconian laws like this.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by liberpolly

Every test has plenty of false positives, especially if the legal limit is zero.

Here in US, they do it so they can confiscate your property, and now you have to prove that you are not guilty - it's called "civil forfeiture". Do they have anything similar in UK? That could explain draconian laws like this.

Any positive roadside test needs a second positive test at an independent lab.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

I'm sure there are those who will say, "don't do anything illegal, and you'll have nothing to worry about". That kind of invasion of privacy would have me worried though because you have to wonder what's next?.. If they're going to start drug testing you in your car, why not on the street when walking around, or at your house?

This is a typical libertarian argument, that everything is a slippery slope. They will test you in your home or walking around when 30,000 people a year get killed in homes and walking around.
A staggering number of people are on multiple prescription meds that impair driving and just drive anyway. A good portion of the caps lock BAD DRIVERS are stoned drivers.
Freedom is great and all, but those killed by stoned drivers are no longer free.
Ignoring drug use while driving is just freedumb.

There was a common sleep aid used a few years ago that had a side -effect of users uncontrollably turning into oncoming traffic. Same thing with anti-anxiety meds.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/03...erous-driving/

This will never happen in the US, because Americans pop pills for everything: getting to sleep, waking up, anxiety, depression, ED, diet, pain, and they over dose and mix drugs dangerously.

These facts are downright scary:

http://www.drugabuse.gov/related-top...use-in-america

Enough to take the bus.

[akima]

Thanks for the heads up Paul.

I wish more of humanity cared about their freedom as much as I do. I'm not that old, but already I find myself becoming jaded by the attitudes of the people around me.

The small number of people who create and enforce these laws only get away with it because so many "adults" behave and think more like children. They seemingly, willingly submit to the whims and desires of those that rule over them often because they have been promised "security". Sometimes they submit, just because doing as they are told is easier in the moment than thinking for yourself, standing up for yourself and taking responsibility for yourself.

Please people... wake the f**k up!

These people already have a surveillance system more powerful than the Stazi had, they already take approximately half of what we produce and there are now more laws, licenses and regulations in the UK than a single person could possibly learn about in a life time.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by akima

and there are now more laws, licenses and regulations in the UK than a single person could possibly learn about in a life time.

I have always said...

"I break at least one law every day that I didn't even know about, without even leaving my house." - csmith12

[alex.s]

simple solution; don't get pulled over :P

or as they put it in new york;

"buy a dirt bike"

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by akima

Please people... wake the f**k up!

A very large portion of Americans have been saying that for some time now. It falls on deaf ears here.

Reminds me of a few other things that are said from time to time.
Give them an inch, and they will take a mile.
Without limits and challenge, governments will never stop inventing new ways to take your money, freedoms, rights and anything else of value.

[FreelancerMG]

Originally Posted by akima

Thanks for the heads up Paul.

I wish more of humanity cared about their freedom as much as I do. I'm not that old, but already I find myself becoming jaded by the attitudes of the people around me.

The small number of people who create and enforce these laws only get away with it because so many "adults" behave and think more like children. They seemingly, willingly submit to the whims and desires of those that rule over them often because they have been promised "security". Sometimes they submit, just because doing as they are told is easier in the moment than thinking for yourself, standing up for yourself and taking responsibility for yourself.

Please people... wake the f**k up!

These people already have a surveillance system more powerful than the Stazi had, they already take approximately half of what we produce and there are now more laws, licenses and regulations in the UK than a single person could possibly learn about in a life time.

This is also interesting to note of what scares me about a parliamentary democracy(or in this case a constitutional monarchy.) Is how fast some laws that potentially intrude on personal freedoms can pass with what seems to be very little deliberation and becomes nearly impossible to amend out in the future. I heard of this only a couple months ago and they've already passed it. Worst of all, the average joe had little to no say in it at all. One of the good things about our slow and inefficient government is that deliberation on measures and especially ratifying law is a very slow process with many steps for failure and at least the illusion of popular vote. Politics generally drags its feet in the U.S. which gives people a chance to study up on the projected laws and measures and attempt to put up a strong position against it. Along with the potential of a judicial review and challenges in the future if need be.

Although a slipper slope argument is a fallacy, it can also be argued that there is precedence of similar laws being pushed beyond presumed reasonable limits everywhere. Even here in the States.

[liberpolly]

Originally Posted by Bubba

Any positive roadside test needs a second positive test at an independent lab.

By which time you're already detained, your vehicle searched for anything, and you've probably violates some obscure law or another, just like anyone in UK or US. And the independent lab tests still can have false positives if the threshold is zero.

[liberpolly]

Originally Posted by FreelancerMG

This is also interesting to note of what scares me about a parliamentary democracy(or in this case a constitutional monarchy.)

UK doesn't have a constitution. This is why they can pass any crazy law and have it stick.

(edit) agree with the rest of your post though.

[liberpolly]

And for us in USA: http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies...felonies+a+day