Interest in 2nd GB for Ecotrons EFI kit

[choneofakind]

Hey guys,

I'm trying to gauge interest in a second group buy for the fuel injection kit made by ecotrons. I know there was some interest left over from the last GB, so this is just a feeler to see who might be interested in a new GB.

As you know, there is a new throttle body with this kit that has had good reviews on performance. I've also heard rumors that there's a new fuel tap in the works, but that is unconfirmed until Matt emails me back.

I'm pretty sure we'll only need 3 people to get 15% off, again, this is unconfirmed until Matt emails me back. FWIW, the last GB was expecting 3 members, and received 10, many with good results and testimonials.

People I see potential interest in based off previous posts:
@Spork
@trixter
@DJK
@Flipflash
@Jiggles ( once you get better)

[choneofakind]

Update:

Matt replied to my initial email. It is too early from ecotron's standpoint to do another GB. He would prefer to have complete results with the new TB's before we do another round of GB's


However, this is still a valid thread for judging interest. If you're interested in buying this product at a (potentially) reduced price, let us know in this thread.

[Palero]

Do you have a link to the new TB development? I'm curious as the man with the blue ninja from Florida had reservations about the original throttle body.

[choneofakind]

here's the new TB:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...&postcount=107

and there's great reviews from both @EMSRacer07 and @setasai

[Palero]

Nice to see the TB evolving!

Question: I looked through the threads.
Does this new revision address the fuel pooling issue others were talking about?

[Jiggles]

You mean with the MAP sensor? Yes

[setasai]

As an update. The new throttlebody addresses all previous issues, including the fuel pooling into the MAP sensor. Actually, that was solved a while back but the new design definitely kept that improvement.

The ONLY and LAST thing we are working on right now is there is a flat spot in the 2k-3krpm range. Matt sent me a new CAL file this morning and I dont want to be too optimistic but I think we're getting very close to fixing it.

[EthioKnight]

I have been interested in the kit from the get-go...I just got a bit discouraged by the fact that it had some kinks that needed addressing, which apparently have been improved. If by the time the GB gets underway, the "last" issue has been resolved, you can put me down as a definite buyer. tnx to those that worked hard to perfect the kit so that lazy mofos like moi can enjoy it cheers.

[Terminal]

To prevent marital discord (she's jealous her bike isn't running for the season yet) I purchased a Gen2 kit outright last weekend and just received it yesterday.

I'll try to keep a running thread in the pre-gen tech forum as I progress with the install, hopefully it will help people make decisions for a new GB.

I have high hopes from unpacking everything, the new TB is aligned as perfectly as I can measure and the fuel rail looks very sturdy and compact. About the only thing missing is the fuel tap gasket for pre-gens which I can pick up for <$6 online.

[dubojr1]

Would someone like to post up the benefits of this upgrade again for those that don't know and so the cost vs. benefit can be weighed out.

Thanks!

[EsrTek]

As a spectator that doesn't have time to read every posts, I would just search here for the last GB drama bomb..
Personally I thought the majority had more failures installing that, then there where success stories??
Left a bad impression, from what I did see, about the Ecotrons EFI kit.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Terminal

I'll try to keep a running thread in the pre-gen tech forum as I progress with the install, hopefully it will help people make decisions for a new GB.

Please keep a step by step picture documentary of the install if you can. It will help get more pre-gen members aware of the installation process if there is a step-by step guide that doesn't only take the new-gen into account.

I asked you a question in a more relevant thread about the gasket. Check your mentions please sir.

[choneofakind]

There were some difficulties originally. It has gone under revision since then. The MAP sensor gas issues have been fixed, the TB's have been fixed, Matt has worked with those who buy this kit to make sure that they get their setup working correctly. Improvements have been made and as far as I'm concerned, from my chats with other members who are using this kit, it is reliable enough for my bike.

The only "bad" case of this is because there were major modifications made before even attempting to install the kit. Matt did offer to buy back the kit for the price of all the parts that were not modified. However, that is not a matter for this thread and is readily available for anyone who wants to sort through it more in other threads to learn more about it for themselves.

Cost vs Benefits:

• Kit has the ability to tune mixture for consistent performance with any intake/exhaust setup/air temp/elevation - no rejetting needed
• "eco-mode": bike learns what fuel table is needed as it runs, keeps the bike at a safe AFR
• "rich-mode": bike runs at a more rich AFR for performance. Does not "learn" in this mode, but uses the tables that were found during eco-mode use, and makes them richer for performance (think 0-60 runs, track days, or just a fun day in the twisties)
• Higher torque output
• Quicker throttle response
• Fuel cut-off during deceleration - increases gas mileage in comparison to a comparable bike that is carbureted
• No choke upon start-up, press and start - rpms stable, throttle won't kill it (personally, this is a noob concern because choke is easy to use and my bike is tuned properly with carbs, but hey, it's still a benefit I guess)
• Cost is $600 + cost to get the O2 sensors installed in your headers.

Anyone who has this kit, please correct me if I'm wrong in any aspect of my above list. I want to make sure I'm giving out correct information!

[jnninja250r]

I'd be interested in a gb when it happens again. It would be a good winter project.

[DJK]

I actually went ahead and bought my own too, I'm using the OEM throttle body

[Jono]

Mmmhm. Not worth 600+ dollars to me.

[choneofakind]

Well, I just ordered the kit. Jono, I'll do my best to make you as peanut butter as possible when I finally get it running by getting 65 mpg with a full exhaust and no airbox. not to mention the ability to tune it without taking the tank off and consistent performance, no matter if it's 30 degrees F or 95 degrees F outside. I've heard nothing but good things from people that I've talked to.

In my mind, it's my toy. I have a good pair of jobs this summer and workstudy in the fall. I want to make it into what I want it to be because I'm keeping it for a long time.

[DJK]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

In my mind, it's my toy. I have a good pair of jobs this summer and workstudy in the fall. I want to make it into what I want it to be because I'm keeping it for a long time.

this.
I'm going to have this bike for a very very long time, even when I upgrade, so it is worth it to me

[Jono]

@choneofakind Well I hope it all works out for the best and you enjoy it. But for me, it wouldn't be worth it. It cost half as much as my bike is worth. Haha.

I hope you make a build thread!

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Well, I just ordered the kit. Jono, I'll do my best to make you as peanut butter as possible when I finally get it running by getting 65 mpg with a full exhaust and no airbox. not to mention the ability to tune it without taking the tank off and consistent performance, no matter if it's 30 degrees F or 95 degrees F outside. I've heard nothing but good things from people that I've talked to.

In my mind, it's my toy. I have a good pair of jobs this summer and workstudy in the fall. I want to make it into what I want it to be because I'm keeping it for a long time.

If that mpg is achieved by someone with a new gen with full exhaust and no air box.... then I'm in. Will the setup work with a non-program BRT also?

Looks like the calculation I came up with filling up once per week currently, it would still take 3 years to recoup the investment. As of right now I have zero intent in ever selling this bike. Investment could very well be worth it.

[GlassAnkles]

so this updated kit is ready to buy....but not ready for a group buy?

im lost, you can order it on his website with the new TBies

[Jiggles]

I think he wants to perfect everything before doing a group buy

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

If that mpg is achieved by someone with a new gen with full exhaust and no air box.... then I'm in. Will the setup work with a non-program BRT also?

Looks like the calculation I came up with filling up once per week currently, it would still take 3 years to recoup the investment. As of right now I have zero intent in ever selling this bike. Investment could very well be worth it.

That number is on a pre-gen with no airbox and a full exhaust. Not sure about the numbers with a newgen or compatibility with a BRT. You might be able to replicate those mpg numbers because typically newgens and pregens use the same jetting when they have the airbox removed and a full exhaust system. As far as I know, the ECU with the efi kit also has control over spark, so you could replicate the BRT with the efi kit. Not 100% sure on that. @setasai am I right here?

I have no interest in making my money back just making the bike into what I want it to be since I plan to keep it till the end. I want it to keep the fun, sporty, yet economical nature we all love, and I see this kit as a way to improve all those aspects at the same time.

Originally Posted by GlassAnkles

so this updated kit is ready to buy....but not ready for a group buy?

im lost, you can order it on his website with the new TBies

He wants to get everything perfected and get parts in stock before he does another GB. This is just an interest thread as a heads-up for when the next one happens. That way, we can just like the new GB thread (when it happens) in this thread, and we have interested buyers to make the new GB go faster. No one likes GB's that drag on for months looking for that last person to get the discount.

[setasai]

Yea. The ECU takes the place of the CDI as well. In the calibration software you can modify the ignition angle and fuel mixture settings. It's a little complicated but I dont see why it cant be done.

[GlassAnkles]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

He wants to get everything perfected and get parts in stock before he does another GB. This is just an interest thread as a heads-up for when the next one happens. That way, we can just like the new GB thread (when it happens) in this thread, and we have interested buyers to make the new GB go faster. No one likes GB's that drag on for months looking for that last person to get the discount.

cool, i might be on the list in a few weeks. I already totaled up the upgades i want to do to it....billet bosch fuel regulator holder, all AN fittings with braided line, etc...

[mustang5.0]

whats the total cost ?

[lc86]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

There were some difficulties originally. It has gone under revision since then. The MAP sensor gas issues have been fixed, the TB's have been fixed, Matt has worked with those who buy this kit to make sure that they get their setup working correctly. Improvements have been made and as far as I'm concerned, from my chats with other members who are using this kit, it is reliable enough for my bike.

The only "bad" case of this is because there were major modifications made before even attempting to install the kit. Matt did offer to buy back the kit for the price of all the parts that were not modified. However, that is not a matter for this thread and is readily available for anyone who wants to sort through it more in other threads to learn more about it for themselves.

Cost vs Benefits:

• Kit has the ability to tune mixture for consistent performance with any intake/exhaust setup/air temp/elevation - no rejetting needed
• "eco-mode": bike learns what fuel table is needed as it runs, keeps the bike at a safe AFR
• "rich-mode": bike runs at a more rich AFR for performance. Does not "learn" in this mode, but uses the tables that were found during eco-mode use, and makes them richer for performance (think 0-60 runs, track days, or just a fun day in the twisties)
• Higher torque output
• Quicker throttle response
• Fuel cut-off during deceleration - increases gas mileage in comparison to a comparable bike that is carbureted
• No choke upon start-up, press and start - rpms stable, throttle won't kill it (personally, this is a noob concern because choke is easy to use and my bike is tuned properly with carbs, but hey, it's still a benefit I guess)
• Cost is $600 + cost to get the O2 sensors installed in your headers.

Anyone who has this kit, please correct me if I'm wrong in any aspect of my above list. I want to make sure I'm giving out correct information!

I wrote up a step by step install (newgen) with the original install kit using a OEM TB, if the redesigned TB is any good my walkthrough would be adequate for installing the new base kit. http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ht=efi+install

I haven't been riding as much lately since I dislocated my shoulder, but I actually just got back on last week and I still love the EFI much more than I do the carburetor. Its just easier, I can jump on it and go no matter what the temp is and the throttle response is much better than before. The short of it is that it has been running great since I have installed it, never a problem, even after I lowsided my bike. Since I installed it I did install KN filter pods and I upgraded the exhaust to a Sportisi VRX Titanium full system and it has done a good job adjusting to the changes.

The real reason I am posting this though is that since I upgraded my exhaust I no longer have use for my original oem exhaust header with the O2 bungs installed, so I figure that I will offer it to someone who decides to take the plunge and has no convenient way of getting them installed for the price of shipping. I'd rather it go to someone who has no real way of getting it done though, not someone who is just too lazy to. For my new exhaust I used these http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ms_ohs_product and I took it to a local muffler shop, they charged $25 bucks. Here is a pic of the stock header just for reference...

[GlassAnkles]

Originally Posted by mustang5.0

whats the total cost ?

i think the last group buy was 25% off do you guys think it will be that much this time?

[choneofakind]

The cost will depend on how many buyers we get. I'm pretty sure the last one only needed 3 buyers to get 15% off. Based on the interest in this thread, that shouldn't be hard at all to get.

The kit starts at $599 and goes down from there based on how many GB members we get. Remember though, there has been a lot of work on the kit, and there are now more parts included in it. We might need higher numbers to get the same discounts as the last GB got.

[NathanUc]

I'm interested as long as it's ready for use out of the box. All these little workarounds put me off for the first group buy. I'm strictly in it for performance and correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears carbs are still out performing these FI kits on heavily modified bikes.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by NathanUc

I'm interested as long as it's ready for use out of the box. All these little workarounds put me off for the first group buy. I'm strictly in it for performance and correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears carbs are still out performing these FI kits on heavily modified bikes.

These are out of the box installs. The software has no more flaws. And Tbs are a ton better than the first ones. I am not sure about the high performance but maybe at the top end bc they just dump fuel. But everywhere else no way carbs come close to efi. No more dips, hickups, or nada. I hated my carbs so im probably bias lol

[choneofakind]

I like my carbs. They're simple to work on and they make sense to me. But the thing is, they just aren't consistent between different temperatures, and with the intake/exhaust mods I want to do, the mileage takes a huge hit. It think those 2 things are worth 1 less hp at the top end...

[choneofakind]

Ok guys, Matt is ready for a second GB, however I already purchased a kit, and do not have enough access to internet at the time being (or time on my hands, starting 2 jobs. Ugh.) or else I would head it up. Basically, if you're interested in heading up a GB, contact Matt at ecotrons@gmail.com to get the dish on how it will work, what makes it easiest for him, etc.

Basically, The GB prices stay same for 2nd GB: 15% off for 3 kits; 20% for 5. I'm not sure if there is enough interest for 10 kits at the moment, but if we can positively get 10 people (or more) in on the new kit, the person heading up the GB can work the details out with Matt if the situation arises.

Matt says all the bugs are fixed, and the updated kit is ready to go. As you know, this includes the new TB's and software, along with the updates made up to this point.

If someone steps up to the plate with this one, all those interested in a GB price can get what they want, and it's a win-win. Remember, once you commit, you commit. We don't need people backing out on a product that is as expensive as this one. That makes the whole forum look bad.

[Palero]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Basically, The GB prices stay same for 2nd GB: 15% off for 3 kits; 20% for 5.

Who is ready to pony up the cash?

(and where did the list of folks go!?!?)

MSRP $599
15% off is $509.15
20% off is $479.20

[dubojr1]

So the kit will come with EVERYTHING needed including the bungs? All that will have to been done is have the bungs welded on? Also which o2 sensor's come with it? Are they wide band?

[triptronix]

I'm wondering the same thing, only the header will need to be modified for the O2 sensors, the tank does not need to be drilled for the fuel return anymore (non Cali bike)?

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by triptronix

I'm wondering the same thing, only the header will need to be modified for the O2 sensors, the tank does not need to be drilled for the fuel return anymore (non Cali bike)?

Yes. Kit comes with everything including a new fuel tap that has two lines. There is no shutoff on the new tap so keep that in mind.

Several of us have put on quick release fittings so that we can remove the tank without draining it.

[dubojr1]

Is there a link or website where the kit and its contents can be looked over? Must the DIY be followed or is there a detailed instruction package that comes with it?

[dubojr1]

Answered my own questions.

Kit: http://www.ecotrons.com/Kawasaki_Nin...c_EFI_kit.html

Manual: http://www.ecotrons.com/files/Ninja2...anual-v2_1.pdf

[dubojr1]

So what about the throttle body? Is their version working good now or is the OEM one still need to be purchased?