November 30th, 2017, 03:38 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Jacob
Location: Puyallup, WA
Join Date: Jul 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: 8
|
Idle issues with Ecotrons EFI kit
Hi all,
Google, previous threads, and Ecotrons documentation have all failed me in trying to figure this out. I've got a 2007 with the older-style Ecotrons EFI kit installed. I've recently replumbed everything to make sure fuel delivery is as it should be. It starts right up, runs great (at least enough for me, I haven't gotten anywhere near tuning it yet), but the idle fluctuates and surges. Idle sits at around 1000-1100 when cold, a bit low, but the bike doesn't die or stall. When it finally starts warming up, once it hits a certain temp, it starts to oscillate between 1000 and 1600 or so. Riding is normal, haven't had a problem, but the idle fluctuates no matter what when warmed. The Ecotrons tuning manual says to check the intake, I don't see anywhere it could be leaking. The idle speed in EcoCAL is set to 1500. No error codes are being thrown. The gas is new, 93 octane. I don't understand enough in EcoCAL to be able to check anything else. Thanks in advance! |
|
November 30th, 2017, 03:39 PM | #2 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
|
If your valves are out of adjustment, you can end up chasing fuel problems endlessly. Are you sure they're in spec?
|
|
November 30th, 2017, 03:55 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
|
Yeah rule out the mechanical first as that's easier and often the culprit.
1. measure vacuum after throttle-plate with warmed-up engine. What is vacuum? 2. check seals on throttle-shaft where it enters throttle-bodies, spray dye on outside and see if anything gets into throttle-body. 3. what is fuel-pressure at idle? This is tied to intake vacuum. 4. what is MAP-sensor output voltage at warmed-up idle? 5. Or are you using throttle-position only for load? Alpha-N? Blending range? 6. what is TPS-sensor output voltage at warmed-up idle? 6. AFR at idle? What is it? 7. test by disconnecting O2-sensor, what happens? Ecotrons is trying to do too much and relying too much on old technology. Their auto-tune "feature" causes way more trouble than it's worth. Turn it off. Upload your settings file somewhere and let's take a look at it. Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; November 30th, 2017 at 05:23 PM. |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
November 30th, 2017, 05:30 PM | #4 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Jacob
Location: Puyallup, WA
Join Date: Jul 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: 8
|
You guys are awesome, thanks for giving me a place to start, I'll take a peek tonight.
Not sure about the valves, I've only had the bike for about 100 miles (got it running after the weather turned to crap), but I'll crack it open and see what I can find. |
|
December 2nd, 2017, 12:24 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
|
I had issues with the "learning" closed loop mode because the O2 sensors would require TONS of power that the tiny electrical overhead of the ninja wouldn't provide. I found it was easy to get it in open loop mode and tune the fueling table. Got it running well and didn't have to worry about the power usage issue.
Closed loop left me with a bike that was unable to start a couple times because it didn't have enough voltage to meet the voltage permissive with just short rides. In those cases I'd jump it with a bigger battery and it ran beautifully! The lower charging of idle might be part of your problem if you're using power faster than it can be recharged. The 2008-2012 bikes have more charging capacity, it may be worth your time to do some research on swapping stators with a newer bike to gain some electrical overhead. Or just tune it on open loop mode. |
|
December 2nd, 2017, 07:07 PM | #6 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
|
Huh??? Narrowband O2-sensors are passive devices. They self-generate 0-1v signal in tiny 1.5ma range. Even ones with heaters (which Ecotrons doesn’t use) require only 15-24w depending upon controller.
There’s also a difference between closed-loop feedback versus closed-loop “learning” or “auto-tune”. I suspect it’s this auto-tune feature that’s changed idle-fuel map into an unstable state. Turning off that feature and use simple closed-loop running off map without adjustments will be much more stable. Unplugging O2-sensor is simple troubleshooting step. Even better is to monitor its output signal with oscilloscope to see what it’s actually sending to the ECU. |
|
December 3rd, 2017, 07:28 AM | #7 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
|
They had heaters on the models that were in my kit. They drained battery.
|
|
December 13th, 2017, 06:52 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Jacob
Location: Puyallup, WA
Join Date: Jul 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: 8
|
Apologies for the delay, here is what I've got: a recording in EcoCAL of a good 20-30 seconds of it sitting at idle, warmed up, oscillating + the current settings I have loaded on it. The file is pretty much exactly what EcoTrons gave me to flash it to. Hopefully I've recorded the right measurements:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CJ...NDrCaADxSrg99R The previous owner or whoever installed the kit never put the O2 sensors on the bike, I've just been running it in rich mode this entire time. I have eventual plans to put them on, but without any emissions or anything to worry about, I just haven't as the bike has been making power fine. |
|
December 13th, 2017, 07:06 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Jacob
Location: Puyallup, WA
Join Date: Jul 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: 8
|
There are no O2 sensors on the bike. They're in a bag on my shelf, they've never been installed.
|
|
December 13th, 2017, 07:08 PM | #10 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
|
Sorry, didnt fully read your post. Ok, no O2-sensors. It is used to adjust AFR at idle and partial-throttle to fine-tune mixtures.
Measure the intake-vacuum after throttle-butterflies. Is this the kit you got? The "Small Engine Fuel Injection Kit – 35cc to 300cc" ? |
|
December 13th, 2017, 07:13 PM | #11 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
|
Test the TPS, how many terminals are on it? Two or three?
|
|
December 19th, 2017, 06:26 PM | #12 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Jacob
Location: Puyallup, WA
Join Date: Jul 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: 8
|
This is the kit I have: http://www.ecotrons.com/products/kaw...injection_kit/
I'll test the other things when I get some time again. |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
ECOTRONS EFI Kit Question | patriots21 | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 20 | October 3rd, 2015 09:19 AM |
My Experience with the EcoTrons EFI kit | lolibater | 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 106 | February 19th, 2015 10:14 AM |
Interest in 2nd GB for Ecotrons EFI kit | choneofakind | Motorcycle-related | 54 | June 11th, 2012 04:04 PM |
|
|