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Old December 18th, 2017, 04:54 PM   #1
jspringston1
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Turn Signal Issues

Hello everyone I just joined the forum and will probably do the introduction to me later. I'm not the best at navigating through forums so I hope I put this in the correct place.

I currently have a 2000 Ninja 250 that I picked up probably around 6 months ago or so. I'm in the process of turning it into a cafe racer and during the process I went to go hook up my tail and turn signals when I came across the issue of no power to the turn signal circuit. This is what I've checked so far:

I checked the fuse
I have tested the flasher using a power source and a test light (Which I then replaced it)
I have checked the wiring going to the flasher with a multimeter (this is when I realized that I didn't have any power)
I then proceeded to check different components with the multimeter, No power to the switch and no power to the fuse at the box.
I then proceeded to follow the wires back and haven't found anything out of the ordinary and I've been checking everything I could think of to no avail. I've been looking at wiring diagrams for the past day or so and just checking over everything. I'm hoping its just something simple at which i'm just overlooking. Any help would be appreciated, this isn't a crucial part to my build just yet but i'm almost done with it and this issue is bothering me.

Thanks for any input.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 05:11 PM   #2
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When you checked fuses, did you just eyeball it? Or did you actually remove it and measure resistance across the legs? What was the resistance you measured?
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Old December 18th, 2017, 05:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspringston1 View Post
I then proceeded to check different components with the multimeter, No power to the switch and no power to the fuse at the box.
I then proceeded to follow the wires back and haven't found anything out of the ordinary and I've been checking everything I could think of to no avail. I've been looking at wiring diagrams for the past day or so and just checking over everything.
If nothing is out of ordinary, you should have power going into ignition switch and power going to fuse 1? You said both no and yes to those circuits having power. Which is it?

In troubleshooting these circuits, it’s best to make a finite-state table. These are on/off states at each components and junction:

Ignition OFF / ON
Fuse-1 inlet. ____/____
Fuse-1 outlet ___/____
turn-relay in ___/____
turn-relay out ___/____
turn-switch in ____/____

Every single junction and component of turn-signals should have a 0v or +12v state depending upon ignition switch Off or On.

Fill in the table and post it here and we can spot the problem immediately. Also add junctions & components not listed, bulb resistance, power to ign switch, etc.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 05:36 PM   #4
jspringston1
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I didn't check resistance across the fuse legs themselves, when I pulled the fuse to look at it I saw that it looked good and so I checked power where the fuse pushes into the box and I got anywhere from 0-.02 volts
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Old December 18th, 2017, 05:38 PM   #5
jspringston1
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Alright thank you, i'm going to go out and write these down. But which one is technically fuse 1? Newb question.. sorry.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 05:46 PM   #6
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It should be labeled “1” or “turn” near it.

Look underneath for wht/green and red/green wires going into it.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 06:02 PM   #7
jspringston1
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Okay so i did the measurements in volts ( I hope thats what I was supposed to do).
Fuse 1 inlet: 0.01v/0.00
Fuse 1 Outlet: 0.01v/0.00
Turn-relay in: 0.02v/0.00v
Turn-relay out: 0.02v/0.00v
Turn-switch in: 0.00v/0.00v
ON/OFF
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Old December 18th, 2017, 06:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspringston1 View Post
Okay so i did the measurements in volts ( I hope thats what I was supposed to do).
Fuse 1 inlet: 0.01v/0.00
Fuse 1 Outlet: 0.01v/0.00
Turn-relay in: 0.02v/0.00v
Turn-relay out: 0.02v/0.00v
Turn-switch in: 0.00v/0.00v
ON/OFF
You may have more problems upstream. Should have full battery-power to those circuits when ign switch is ON.

1. Measure power at battery, what volts do you get?

Also measure resistance of main 30-amp fuse by starter relay. Also measure resistance of all other fuses. To test fuses:

1. Remove fuse from fuse box
2. Set multimeter to lowest resistance range, typically 0-2000 ohms
3. Touch test probes together and note resistance number. This is a calibration offset that should be subtracted from actual resistance readings
4. Touch one test-probe to one leg of fuse, touch other test-probe to other leg of fuse. Write down resistance reading
5. Subtract calibration offset in step-3 from measured resistance of fuse in step-4

What is this final resistance number for fuse-1? Repeat for all other fuses
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Old December 18th, 2017, 07:13 PM   #9
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Okay, I will do that all tomorrow. I really appreciate it guys. Thanks
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Old December 20th, 2017, 11:27 AM   #10
jspringston1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
You may have more problems upstream. Should have full battery-power to those circuits when ign switch is ON.

1. Measure power at battery, what volts do you get?

Also measure resistance of main 30-amp fuse by starter relay. Also measure resistance of all other fuses. To test fuses:

1. Remove fuse from fuse box
2. Set multimeter to lowest resistance range, typically 0-2000 ohms
3. Touch test probes together and note resistance number. This is a calibration offset that should be subtracted from actual resistance readings
4. Touch one test-probe to one leg of fuse, touch other test-probe to other leg of fuse. Write down resistance reading
5. Subtract calibration offset in step-3 from measured resistance of fuse in step-4

What is this final resistance number for fuse-1? Repeat for all other fuses
Okay I finally had time to go back out and test this on my bike. Sorry I had a busy day yesterday.

My battery was operating at full power, a little over 12v
All of the fuses (Main fuse on the starter relay and all the fuses in the fuse box) balanced out to 0.00 after subtracting the calibration offset.
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Old December 20th, 2017, 06:21 PM   #11
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Ok, let’s move downstream from battery and test things along way.

1. Pull 30a main fuse out of stater solenoid. Measure voltage at each fuse-leg terminal. What do you get?

2. Plug 30a main fuse back in

3. Measure voltage of white wire at ignition switch

4. Measure voltage of white/black wire at ignition switch
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Old December 21st, 2017, 11:36 AM   #12
jspringston1
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I haven't done those tests yet but I just realized something (although I don't see how it would make the fuse not have any power) but I don't have front turn signals yet. Could that cause my no power issues? I know if there's not enough draw on the circuit it won't trip the flasher but i would still think that I would at least have power at the fuse box.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 12:15 PM   #13
jspringston1
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What is this final resistance number for fuse-1? Repeat for all other fuses[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
Ok, let’s move downstream from battery and test things along way.

1. Pull 30a main fuse out of stater solenoid. Measure voltage at each fuse-leg terminal. What do you get?

2. Plug 30a main fuse back in

3. Measure voltage of white wire at ignition switch

4. Measure voltage of white/black wire at ignition switch
Okay so I did the tests:

Main fuse leg terminals: One read 13.3v and the other read 0.03v
White wire at ignition: 12.8v
White/Black Wire at ignition: 12.8v

Now while I was measuring those wires I tested them all and all of them but the grey wire read 12.8, the grey wire read 10v. Not sure if thats supposed to be that or not.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 02:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspringston1 View Post
I haven't done those tests yet but I just realized something (although I don't see how it would make the fuse not have any power) but I don't have front turn signals yet. Could that cause my no power issues? I know if there's not enough draw on the circuit it won't trip the flasher but i would still think that I would at least have power at the fuse box.
Even without being connected to bulbs, there should still be power going to fuses and flasher relay
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Old December 24th, 2017, 09:59 AM   #15
jspringston1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
Even without being connected to bulbs, there should still be power going to fuses and flasher relay
That's what I figured. Im just really confused at this point.
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Old December 24th, 2017, 03:10 PM   #16
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The Grey wire should read less than 12v it has a resistor in it. Has to be there for the bike to start.
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Old December 24th, 2017, 07:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
The Grey wire should read less than 12v it has a resistor in it. Has to be there for the bike to start.
Oh okay cool, didnt know that, thanks! Learn something new every day
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Old December 24th, 2017, 07:33 PM   #18
jspringston1
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If all else fails maybe I could run an power wire with an inline fuse to the side of the relay that goes to the fuse box because im thinking maybe its the fuse box. In the end bypassing the fuse box so that could possibly be a test for it. Not sure if what I wrote makes sense though. Im not good at putting my thoughts into words.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 05:54 AM   #19
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You're welcome. The resistor on the Grey wire threw me for a loop when i bought an eBay ignition and couldn't figure out why I didn't have spark at the coils. No resistor, no spark.

What you said make sense to me as a test at least but I'm not the best with electrical issues..
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Old December 25th, 2017, 12:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspringston1 View Post
Okay so I did the tests:

Main fuse leg terminals: One read 13.3v and the other read 0.03v
White wire at ignition: 12.8v
White/Black Wire at ignition: 12.8v

Now while I was measuring those wires I tested them all and all of them but the grey wire read 12.8, the grey wire read 10v. Not sure if thats supposed to be that or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jspringston1 View Post
Okay so i did the measurements in volts ( I hope thats what I was supposed to do).
Fuse 1 inlet: 0.01v/0.00
Fuse 1 Outlet: 0.01v/0.00
Turn-relay in: 0.02v/0.00v
Turn-relay out: 0.02v/0.00v
Turn-switch in: 0.00v/0.00v
ON/OFF
You found the problem!! The white/green wire going out of ignition-switch powers fuse-1 and flasher-relay. Since you measured it with battery power leaving ignition-switch, but zero power at fuse-1 input, problem is with white/green wire in between. Fuse box is fine since power disappears before reaching fusebox.

Trace every millimeter of white/green wire from ignition-switch to fusebox. Use hook-probe or sewing needle to poke through insulation of wire every 3cm or so and measure voltage. At some point, you will find power at one spot, and no power 3cm downstream. Inspect wire segment in between; could be break in wire internally, or insulation may be exposed and inner wire shorted.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 12:38 PM   #21
jspringston1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
You found the problem!! The white/green wire going out of ignition-switch powers fuse-1 and flasher-relay. Since you measured it with battery power leaving ignition-switch, but zero power at fuse-1 input, problem is with white/green wire in between. Fuse box is fine since power disappears before reaching fusebox.

Trace every millimeter of white/green wire from ignition-switch to fusebox. Use hook-probe or sewing needle to poke through insulation of wire every 3cm or so and measure voltage. At some point, you will find power at one spot, and no power 3cm downstream. Inspect wire segment in between; could be break in wire internally, or insulation may be exposed and inner wire shorted.
Awesome man, will do!
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Old December 25th, 2017, 01:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
Trace every millimeter of white/green wire from ignition-switch to fusebox. Use hook-probe or sewing needle to poke through insulation of wire every 3cm or so and measure voltage.
Or as a test, run another piece of wire from the ignition switch to fuse 1 and verify that the problem is solved. Then you have the option of installing that wire permanently by taping it neatly to the wire bundle that contains the original wire, rather than possibly having to unwrap a big piece of the harness to get to that wire.
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Old December 25th, 2017, 01:46 PM   #23
jspringston1
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Well guys, I appreciate the help! So turns out the green and white wire was severed about 3 inches from the ignition switch. If I had the correct wire diagram I probably would have traced that wire! The diagram I downloaded didn't even have a green and white. Thanks a lot everyone!
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