What is it about small bikes we love?

[Apex]

I'm addicted to small bikes. I love my little 250. I let a friend take mine for a quick spin and he loved the 250 too (the guy that let me ride his R6).

He said the riding position was good and he also loved my exhaust.

For some reason, since I did get the 250, I've been infatuated with small bikes. I'd love to get my hands on a 125. It could be in a small twin or single cylinder format, but that ride would be awesome. I think it would be a fun machine. It would be really easy to master. If it was a street fighter, it would make for a fun track day machine too (albeit slow!). Hell it would be an awesome commuter for close trips.

Then again I do remember the guy who took a Rukus around the US. The 125 would be much more bearable.

When oh when will we get more 125's and 250's out here in the states? We are missing all of the cool bikes. Sure the 1000's are fast and fun as hell, but I think it would be great to have a small bike where all you need is one tank of gas for a track day...where tires and mods are inexpensive, even maintenance.

Am I just dreaming or could an increase in the number of available small bikes in the future for us all?

I want one!

Link to original page on YouTube.

[sombo]

I hate to say it, but keep dreaming.

The sad truth is that while you and many of us here love the smaller bikes and don't see the reason for the monsters on the street. Is that the larger part of the American market is still obsessed with the "bigger is better" mentality. Now, while we are starting to see a change in that trend in the car industry, it will still be quite some time before we MIGHT see it in the motorcycle industry.

I would love to see just as much competition in the small bikes as there is in the large bikes. Now if we could just convince the rest of the market and show that want of small bike competition to the manufacturers.

[Apex]

Lets all get together and make a custom 250.

That would be awesome.

[Daeldren]

We have motorcycles out there right now that are "specialized" for specific riding styles and conditions, you want to tour you need a Goldwing or similair hefty touring bike, Sport bike you need a race replica with all kinds of electronic gadgets.

The thing that attracts me to the smaller bikes is their simplicity, they are just motorcycles.

Used to be the old dogs would ride 500cc BSA's all over the country, sure it sucked sometimes but that was a real bike. You could pick up a Harley Knucklehead for $500 and ride the piss out of it, do some home made mods to suit your style. Not anymore though unless you get a "beginner bike" which somehow implies that its to be used for a year and tossed away so you can get yourself a monster that weighs 600lbs.

[Flashmonkey]

The smaller bikes make you feel like a superhero...even when you aren't.

Believe me folks...there are days where I miss my 250. There are also days when I lust for a 1000, though.

[Apex]

Amen Kenneth!

This is true...people have forgotten what it was like to really ride a motorcycle. Steve McQueen had it right back then. He knew what being a motorcyclist was like.

I don't need LCD screens, top flight front forks, shift lights, etc...I just need something that is bloody fun. I guess that is why I like the bikes I do. Simplicity, just as you stated. Don't get me wrong, I love the ZX10 (and similar motorcycles). It has its place...but for a real ride, I do prefer something simple, something cheap and something inexpensive to own and repair.

For instance, I love my Ford Mustang. I love the 2011 model too. I absolutely refuse to pay $40K for a new GT! All I can think about is "what happened to the poor mans sports car?" I miss my old fox body mustangs. I don't think I could ever pay 40k for a car. Heck I have a hard time paying 20 for one, even though I could afford it.

I'd like a 125cc single that I can tear apart and put back together in a day...where I can work on it on the side of the road if need be. A bike where I don't need 200 different tools to be able to do everything on it.

I guess I'm just cheap, but I know I'd enjoy a true 125 with a 6-spd transmission. Streetfighter would be preferable IMHO due to less plastics. 15hp is welcome too.

I like the MadAss, but 8hp is a little low IMHO. I'd put premium in it to squeeze out some more HP.

Wish some other manufactures would listen to us...

[KURT]

Can't understand why Honda doesn't sell the CBR125 here? (Or why they don't sell a sport bike here, smaller than 600 cc's) I can drive to Canada, and buy them all day.

I hope the Kymco Quannon sells well. That may open the door to better small sport bikes. But I fear they may have a rough time of it.

[spooph]

Apex, you nailed. Why are smaller bikes so cool? Because they are fun, and they are no hassle. But as Daeldren said, look at the market....

You want an old-skool bike you can just ride and have fun with? Get a Harley. Might have more flash than it used it to, but it's still 60's technology, and it still produces the same amount of horsepower.... OK, maybe not, but it definitely hasn't improved to warrant the 6000x price increase....

Anyways, off my Harley-bashing box.... You can get a Royal Enfield. Perfectly good "New" bike, that's reasonably cheap, and old-skool. With the added benefit of fuel injection. To many this might just be a feature, but I can tell you from somebody who can cross from 5,000 to 10,000 feet in a day, fuel injection rocks! So, Kawi, take the ZX-2R from 1998, put fuel injection on it, and sell it for $6,000 here in the States. I don't know who else would buy it, but I would....

OK, let's look at low-tech. KLX-250SF (?) - the super moto version of the 250 dirt bike.... That's your answer right there Apex.... OK, not so cool-looking as the Duke 125, but it satisfies all your other criteria.... And I'm sure you can purdy it up.... I think in a place like NYC, Detroit, or San Diego a little naked, super-moto style bike would be fun as hell. But get out into the plains covering the majority of the country, and it would just suck. Unless you can find a dirt-route to your work.... OK, those are really polar statements, but you get what I mean, right?

Today I rode a friends SV650. My 250 feels like a toy. Don't get me wrong, I love my 250, and will probably not sell it in favor of say a 600 or 1K, but I might get one of those in addition to it...

I think what it comes down to is just to continue doing what you all have been doing on this site since it's inception. Enjoy the little bike. Maybe the culture will turn and be more small-bike receptive, but for now, I think we are the minority, and thus, must deal.

Besides, you want a really cool bike that's a kick in the pants, build one. You get to choose the technology..... I don't mean to knock your discussion, or the points, but this is the way I see the situation. If I'm wrong, please rectify me.

[tapdiggy]

Originally Posted by Apex

...I don't need LCD screens...

Let's not go crazy. Every bike should have an LCD on it, even just a Casio wristwatch strapped to a handlebar.

[highpsiguy]

I think Honda had it right when they were selling the little ct-70 and 90s. The xl based street/trail bikes were a BLAST. They had 70cc, 125cc and 250cc. Some are still around at fairly decent prices.

I think one reason I enjoy the little Ninja 250 because its so simple.

[TygaUSA.com]

Hopefully Honda will bring the new CBR 250 here...I think it will actually sell well. I have always loved small displacement bikes, it is a shame they do not make a modern 400cc sportbike!

[Apex]

Originally Posted by spooph

Apex, you nailed. Why are smaller bikes so cool? Because they are fun, and they are no hassle. But as Daeldren said, look at the market....

You can get a Royal Enfield. Perfectly good "New" bike, that's reasonably cheap, and old-skool. With the added benefit of fuel injection. To many this might just be a feature, but I can tell you from somebody who can cross from 5,000 to 10,000 feet in a day, fuel injection rocks! So, Kawi, take the ZX-2R from 1998, put fuel injection on it, and sell it for $6,000 here in the States. I don't know who else would buy it, but I would....

OK, let's look at low-tech. KLX-250SF (?) - the super moto version of the 250 dirt bike.... That's your answer right there Apex.... OK, not so cool-looking as the Duke 125, but it satisfies all your other criteria.... And I'm sure you can purdy it up.... I think in a place like NYC, Detroit, or San Diego a little naked, super-moto style bike would be fun as hell. But get out into the plains covering the majority of the country, and it would just suck. Unless you can find a dirt-route to your work.... OK, those are really polar statements, but you get what I mean, right?

Today I rode a friends SV650. My 250 feels like a toy. Don't get me wrong, I love my 250, and will probably not sell it in favor of say a 600 or 1K, but I might get one of those in addition to it...

I think what it comes down to is just to continue doing what you all have been doing on this site since it's inception. Enjoy the little bike. Maybe the culture will turn and be more small-bike receptive, but for now, I think we are the minority, and thus, must deal.

Besides, you want a really cool bike that's a kick in the pants, build one. You get to choose the technology..... I don't mean to knock your discussion, or the points, but this is the way I see the situation. If I'm wrong, please rectify me.

I like the concept of the 250SF, but the price tag is what kills me. I mean it is a single...how hard would it to throw a SINGLE fuel injector on that? I'm quite sure the fuel map would be the easiest thing to ever create for a bike and they could keep the price where it is (and due to a more controllable fuel system, a little more HP). I don't know. I mean the 250SF does have 20hp and only weighs 300-310 fully fueled. It would be a nice contender.

I like the SM look, but I'd really like a quality, 125-250, streetfighter. I just think that would be awesome. I also know of a go-kart track near me where a 125 would be at home.

Maybe I can talk my wife into the MadAss...then again maybe not. I mean it is only 2700 MSRP. That wouldn't be too much...only 1k more than the 250 was used (including TTL). I don't know, that 4-speed just really sucks...I could definitely deal with a 5-spd, preferably 6. The Sachs MadAss would be a 100% toy...since it couldn't do any real commuting with 8hp (max speed of around 60mph).

I know about the Enfield. Those things are nice. I could own one, but I think I'd like a bike where I could be an idiot on it. Not idiot as in squid, but idiot as in rev it to the sky, lean it over, flick it left and right and smile like a kid in a candy store. I think the best definition would be a happy idiot. It would be light enough to get the front wheel off the ground too. Maybe have a nice torque-y first gear that can help pop that front wheel off the ground, then a good and linear gearbox the rest of the way. The MadAss is a great concept. I'm all for it, just needs a little fine tuning (more hp and more gears). But the weight is nice at a claimed 209lbs. They say some mods on the MadAss can get you near 70-75mph without opening the engine...but then you lose the awesome fuel range.


I could build one, but the custom route gets really expensive. Mass production keeps the cost down. So that would be the cheaper route to go. Too bad importing a ride is such a PITA. I'll sit back and wait patiently. I just like the small bikes, they have so much more character.

[FrugalNinja250]

Reasons I chose the Ninja 250 as my first bike:

Lightweight and easy to pick up after dropping it.
Relatively inexpensive to buy and own.
Easy to maintain! (pre-'08).
Good support community.
Low power reduces opportunities for stupidity.
Looks!

Edit to add: My favorite part is saving fuel. I don't even bother looking at fuel prices anymore. Even including gear and maintenance/repairs I'm coming out ahead of driving my car. So in a way, I'm getting paid to ride for fun!

So far I've been very happy. I wish the bike was fuel injected (for reliability and reduced maintenance, as well as cold-weather starting and ridability). The only downside is that the last few years in my market the speculators and flippers got involved and have driven prices much higher for parts and bikes. Hopefully at some point they'll move on and poison some other market.

[Apex]

Link to original page on YouTube.

This is AWESOME!

[Flashmonkey]

Not sure why everyone's down on carburetors? FI requires you to plug crap into other crap.

Carbs broken? Bike running funny? Too rich/lean? Where's my screwdriver?

[spooph]

That Madass looks like a kick in the pants Apex! I think I want one. Right after I get a Briton Bee with a 110 from a CT110....

I don't think you'd ever need more than 4 gears....

[Apex]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

Not sure why everyone's down on carburetors? FI requires you to plug crap into other crap.

Carbs broken? Bike running funny? Too rich/lean? Where's my screwdriver?

I don't think carbs suck. I prefer carbs myself, but perfectly tweaking an EFI map can bring out hidden HP.

[Havok]

I love my 250 because it does everything I ask it to and more.

For commuting it is perfect, fast enough and nimble enough to get around all traffic and at 60 mpg it pretty much owns.

Sport riding, hell yea it corners so well and is so light can easily hold it's own on twisties, sure the bigger bikes are faster on straights but is going 100 mph in a straight line considered sport riding?

Cost, yea at 3-4 k for a new/slightly used one price per performance is higher then any bike out there.

Resale value when I go to sell it I can pretty much get what I paid for it is there any otter bike that holds value like the 250's? I doubt it.

For these reasons the 250 is the perfect bike for me, it's not a perfect bike but perfect for me

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by highpsiguy

I think Honda had it right when they were selling the little ct-70 and 90s. The xl based street/trail bikes were a BLAST. They had 70cc, 125cc and 250cc. Some are still around at fairly decent prices.

I think one reason I enjoy the little Ninja 250 because its so simple.

Friend just took a '74 XL125 in on a trade towards a scooter. Throws me back to being 10 years old an drooping over those things.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

Not sure why everyone's down on carburetors? FI requires you to plug crap into other crap.

Carbs broken? Bike running funny? Too rich/lean? Where's my screwdriver?

Experience. On my car, when I modified the engine by stroking/boring/camming/porting I was able to do tuning with a laptop and some software, burned a new chip, and was done. Mainly because of the O2 sensor, that's key to tuning to me. Trying to guess mixture issues by reading plugs (which only really works at WOT) and by how it feels when driving requires a high level of talent and experience which I never was able to master. With software it's easy. The tools are vastly different (bits instead of bits, so to speak) but in a way it's simpler to tune with software than with a screwdriver.

[zilaniz]

You should check out the yamaha wr250x 6 speed fuel injected single that redlines at around 12k...thats pretty nuts for a supermoto.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by zilaniz

You should check out the yamaha wr250x 6 speed fuel injected single that redlines at around 12k...thats pretty nuts for a supermoto.

I ride with a guy who has one. He has an FMF pipe on it which sounds great, and he flies on the thing on the backroads.

[spooph]

Apex, what are those videos of? Of like a Japanese licensing test? I wanna start practicing stuff like that on my 250.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Experience. On my car, when I modified the engine by stroking/boring/camming/porting I was able to do tuning with a laptop and some software, burned a new chip, and was done. Mainly because of the O2 sensor, that's key to tuning to me. Trying to guess mixture issues by reading plugs (which only really works at WOT) and by how it feels when driving requires a high level of talent and experience which I never was able to master. With software it's easy. The tools are vastly different (bits instead of bits, so to speak) but in a way it's simpler to tune with software than with a screwdriver.

Well that's a level of fine tuning that may or may not be required for most people. And not everyone tooting for an FI'd ninjette is saavy on fuel map adjustments and tuning sans dyno. And let's face it, if I have to pull out a damn laptop to fix my bike, I'd probably end up punching the hell outta something haha.

I'm more of the "WTF... it's a goddamn street bike...why the crap do I need to tune this crap for? Just work you stupid SOB...." while I bludgeon the carburetor with a rubber mallet. I do see the benefit of living without a choke, though. That part sucks....but still. The day I ride an FI'd bike is the day I get all fancy and what-not.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by Apex

This is AWESOME!

That IS awesome! I can totally see that thing kicking butt in the winter time. Their website says they'll be launching in Canada soon. Woohoo!

[Apex]

Originally Posted by spooph

Apex, what are those videos of? Of like a Japanese licensing test? I wanna start practicing stuff like that on my 250.

Not really. It is motorcycle gymkhana.

Here is a You Tube link

[Apex]

This is pretty cool, a tiny kid on a tiny bike

Link to original page on YouTube.

[sombo]

You know, maybe it's the simplicity (added to just how sexy I think they look) that helps draw me to the ZZR600. It's carbed, has an analog dash, and is mostly just a point and go type of bike that can still keep up with the newer 600's. I WILL get one eventually.

[Apex]

Anyone stateside ever hear about the Kymco Quannon 150?



Moto-USA Review

[Sailariel]

The reason we see so few 125 and 250 cc machines introduced in the US is that the motorcycle magazines devote 99% of the magazines to big bikes. In 08, when gas was $4.00 a gallon, the Ninjette was the darling of the press. As soon as gas prices went down, you saw Ninjettes in the used section at the dealerships. I started with a 1956 NSU Special Max in 1958. It was a single cylinder OHC 250--well ahead of its time. I kept the bike till 1985. Had lots of larger displacement bikes in between. I came back to a 250 in 08 and am happy with my choice.

[Apex]

Well that makes sense. I mean people "need a reason" to buy certain things these days. They have to be able to justify the reason of the purchase.

Like many people on here, we got the ninja because it is cheap. Cheap to own, maintain, modify, etc. It is good old cheap fun (not that there is anything wrong with that).

Just like people buy the hybrids because "they are less of an environmental impact". Yeah right. Tell me that when those batteries die. Honestly though, my whole thought process on the big bike craze is why buy a bike that can do a sub 10-second quarter mile and can top out at 200mph? For a daily commute, honestly, nobody really needs anything over a 500 (unless you ride a 900# cruiser, 750 for them ).

I've even been suckered into it when I was looking at the ZX10. A lot of power, and it did look good. On the down side there was higher insurance, monthly payments (though it would have been very low); more $$ for mods, maintenance and gas too. The more I thought about it the less sense it made. I even told my wife I was glad she was so against the idea of me getting that bike (even though she would have let me if I really did want it). She was shocked too.

I'm all for the smaller bikes. The KLR 650, KLX 250, Ninja 250, CBR 125, Sachs MadAss 125, Royal Enfield, etc...they all make sense. They are sippers when it comes to gas but still fun to cruise around on. Ok ok, I know the 125 could not partake in the game of the American highways, but you can't say that bike wouldn't be fun. A 125 with 17" wheels...slap some nice rubber on there and take it to the track. That would be a blast.

I don't know why but I have turned into a person that wants to be able to have fun, not spend my cash away on luxuries. I have no vehicle payments other than insurance, maintenance and gas. I guess, being around the racing environment, I've seen tons of people spending everything they have to keep their race car in good condition. A motor blows and they are putting in extra hours to come up with spare cash. I like the fact that if something were to happen to my bike, I could have it replaced with another for the same cost that some friends put into just the motor. I don't know, maybe I'm just getting old, or getting smarter. Hang on, many would say the two go hand in hand.

Either way, I'm all about having fun these days. Part of that is knowing I have a very nice buffer in the bank. I like being frugal.

What is frugal?
fru·gal – adjective
1. economical in use or expenditure; prudently saving or sparing; not wasteful

Yup that is me these days, but not to an extreme. I'm doing what I can to keep myself from spending money. I go for bicycle rides on my days off, clean the house, etc. I keep myself occupied on cheap entertainment. My ninja is cheap entertainment.

Ok, I'm done ranting about being cheap...carry on!

[bob138]

I wish the USA would adopt the same rules overseas with tiered licenses. It would solve two problems. Squids would have to start on small displacement bikes and would have a better shot at learning properly and it would make for a better market for small displacement bikes due to the need.

Personally I did the MSF course, then started on a 07 ex250. After a year I went up to a 99 gsxr750. Then I bought a 91 ex500 for $400 for a streetfighter project. I had so much more fun on the 500 that I sold the 750 and after lowsiding the 500 I bought an 09 250 with crash damage so I had a running bike again.

I'm glad I got the 750, it showed me that I don't need it. Though eventually I will have a Buell XB9SX

So now I'm doing a full teardown and rebuild of the 500 while modifying the 250 to look like a Z1000 and I couldn't be happier.

I have two awesome bikes that I paid about $2100 for total hehe. Can't beat that.

Here's the build for the 250 http://www.customfighters.com/forums...ad.php?t=36237

Bob

[Zombiphone]

Speaking of small bikes being fun, I recently met a guy who races in M1GP on a little Honda NSR 50. It's awesome because he's like a big, tough looking guy who races the hell out of this itty bitty bike on a cart track. It looks incredibly entertaining though (and speaking of the awesome money saving properties of small bikes, cart track days and NIGHTS- they put the track under flood lights and have endurance races on a normal basis apparently- are MUCH cheaper than a normal trackday). He also rides a 1000, but he seems a bit more into the little 50.

I was initially planning to pick up a 600rr or an SV650 after I get a dirt bike, but I'm thinking I want to pick up one of those little 50cc beasts first before I get a faster big track bike and see what those are like (Still getting a bigger track bike eventually, but it's now probably another year down the order). It'll be great referring to my 250 as my big bike for a while

So yeah- Good cheap[er] fun. Since I'm not trying to ride competitively, small bikes currently fulfill my wants and needs perfectly. Really though, at the end of the day, I just really love bikes, period. They all serve different purposes, and currently the small ones are serving mine by being affordable on my budget yet still fantastically fun and, above all, a superb learning tool