ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R > 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 7th, 2013, 09:26 AM   #1
jackliu239
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R

Posts: 81
High handle bar vibration, hard to get into high RPM, is this normal?

I don't know if this is normal for pregen Ninja 250 or not, I notice that it is really easy to get to RPM from 1k to 7k, but from 7K and up, it is much harder and slower to increase the RPM especially at higher gears of 4 and above. Sometime when I am at 6k RPM, at 5th gear, no matter even if I twist the throttle all the way to max, the RPM at most will increase to 7k, but not anything more, as a result the fastest I have ever gone I think is 60mph, I have not yet take this on freeway yet.

I'm just curious am I doing it wrong? Because I always change gears at around 7k, never above 8k. And when I change a gear up from 7k for example, the RPM usually goes 1.5k lower, after I repeat the step all the way from 1st gear to 4th or 5th I'm mostly at 7k RPM and no matter how much more gas I give it, the RPM seems to be stuck at 7k, and my speed rarely exceeds 55mph.

Also another thing that I notices that after the engine is at 7k and above, the handle bar produces a LOT of vibration to the point that it actually numbs my hand.

Any expert advice is appreciated, I'm just wondering what am I doing wrong here.
jackliu239 is offline   Reply With Quote




Old September 7th, 2013, 09:33 AM   #2
Motofool
Daily Ninjette rider
 
Motofool's Avatar
 
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
It seems that your engine has no sufficient torque.

The reasons could be many.

You may be able to find some local Ninjette member willing to check your problem first hand.
__________________________________________________
Motofool
.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
"Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí
Motofool is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 7th, 2013, 10:37 AM   #3
csmith12
The Corner Whisperer
 
csmith12's Avatar
 
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track)

Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
What is the gearing?
Any mods?
Does it seem to run ok?
Airbox clear?
Any exhaust leaks?
csmith12 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 7th, 2013, 11:11 AM   #4
alex.s
wat
 
alex.s's Avatar
 
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009

Motorcycle(s): wat

Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
edit: nevermind. i re-read the op. its a clogged intake
__________________________________________________
alex.s is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 7th, 2013, 11:12 AM   #5
FvnnyL3tt3r1ng
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
FvnnyL3tt3r1ng's Avatar
 
Name: Justin
Location: Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
The reasons could be many.
How many miles?

Any info on the last carb cleaning?

Stock? Upgrades/mods?
__________________________________________________
Mods: Offset clutch pressure plate
FvnnyL3tt3r1ng is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 7th, 2013, 01:12 PM   #6
jackliu239
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R

Posts: 81
Just passed 300 miles, did a full tune up at 97 miles, took the carb apart, and cleaned the jets, and I recently cleaned the air filter and re oil it, as result of this I feel performance and warm up improved much.

Bike have No mods, all stock, no fluid leaking from exhaust or anywhere as far as I see.

After I made the original post, I took it out for a ride, this time I tried to shift at 8-10K from 1st gear, to 2nd to 3rd. And I see much faster acceleration, it is very easy to take it to 50mph, but at 4th gears and above the acceleration/RPM slows down quite a bit. It actually seems not possible to take it to 8k RPM at 5th gear or above. The fastest I can go is 62mph today, and it took me about a quarter miles to achieve this speed, and this is up shifting at RPM of 8-9k or more, but when I shifted to 5th gear, no matter how much throttle I give it, it refuse to go to 8k and above.

I have never ridden another motorcycle before, so I can't compare, but besides this problem everything else feels great, the bike is responsive, all thing seems to be in good functional state.
jackliu239 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 7th, 2013, 02:17 PM   #7
Motofool
Daily Ninjette rider
 
Motofool's Avatar
 
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackliu239 View Post
...........The fastest I can go is 62mph today, and it took me about a quarter miles to achieve this speed, and this is up shifting at RPM of 8-9k or more, but when I shifted to 5th gear, no matter how much throttle I give it, it refuse to go to 8k and above............
Your engine is producing half of the power it can.
After some minutes of riding, touch both cylinders and see if one is cold: if so, that one is not firing or having combustion.

You did not mention adjustment of valves:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_..._the_valves%3F

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Service_Schedule

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Trouble...roubleshooting

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/My_engi...running_poorly

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_..._the_floats%3F

If valves and level of carbs' float and fuel supply are OK and spark plugs are new and air filter is clear and cooling system is OK and choke is closing all the way and chain is properly lubricated and brakes release completely, next I would verify compression and leaks.

http://www.dansmc.com/compression_test.htm

http://www.dansmc.com/leakdown.htm

Yes, ..... many things to check, ....hope you can find the culprit.
__________________________________________________
Motofool
.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
"Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí
Motofool is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 7th, 2013, 09:56 PM   #8
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Sounds like this thread - http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147395

My reply would be the same here as it was there (#19).

Basically - you are bogging the engine - downshift.
jkv45 is offline   Reply With Quote


0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old September 7th, 2013, 10:09 PM   #9
alex.s
wat
 
alex.s's Avatar
 
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009

Motorcycle(s): wat

Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
After some minutes of riding, touch both cylinders and see if one is cold:
i will usually put liquid on the headers to see if it fizzles or not. if i'm stuck on the side of the road i've been known to spit on the headers to see if they're both firing.

i don't like burns
__________________________________________________
alex.s is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 7th, 2013, 10:49 PM   #10
jackliu239
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R

Posts: 81
Ok thanks guys, I'm going out there tomorrow to do some new experiments.

I also notice something when riding at 4th gear at high RPM today (about 8k) I sometimes feel like the engine is not giving consistent power, like the power would would switch on and off very fast, and this made me shake slightly forward and back on my seat, but this only happen about once or twice per ride and never last more than 10 seconds or so. I notice that this happen usually during the first 15 minutes of start up, but after I been riding for half hours or more it would never happen again.
jackliu239 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 8th, 2013, 07:25 AM   #11
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackliu239 View Post
Ok thanks guys, I'm going out there tomorrow to do some new experiments.

I also notice something when riding at 4th gear at high RPM today (about 8k) I sometimes feel like the engine is not giving consistent power, like the power would would switch on and off very fast, and this made me shake slightly forward and back on my seat, but this only happen about once or twice per ride and never last more than 10 seconds or so. I notice that this happen usually during the first 15 minutes of start up, but after I been riding for half hours or more it would never happen again.
You may also be running lean in the midrange, which is common. That will cause surging. To cure that, search around for the procedure to shim the needles in the carbs.

Make sure the gas is fresh 87 octane. You could add 1 oz per gal of a strong intake cleaner like Techron Concentrate to the next tank and see if you get any improvement.

I don't think there is any serious problem.
jkv45 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 8th, 2013, 09:24 AM   #12
jackliu239
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R

Posts: 81
Just got back from riding, and I think the problem is getting worse.

When going uphill the engine power flickers every 1 seconds or so, as a result, I feel like the G force is shifting back and forward, this problem occurs as well as during the first 15 minutes of flat ground riding, but after 15 minutes the engine won't flick on flat ground, but still flicks going up hill.

I also hear this sound when the RPM is high, it is like.... click click click in very high vibrations coming from the engine sometimes, as if there is a metal bit stuck inside somewhere. The problem is sometimes I hear the sound and sometimes I don't, I know this is not normal. I think maybe there is metal piece inside the oil, the bike have 350 miles so far and still in break in period, and I changed oil when it was 100 miles. I think there might be metal pieces in the oil, I will change it tomorrow to see if the problem goes away.

Also when I let go of the handle bar, it start to wobble very fast. Maybe wheel is out of alignment?
jackliu239 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 8th, 2013, 09:33 AM   #13
Motofool
Daily Ninjette rider
 
Motofool's Avatar
 
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackliu239 View Post
.........I think there might be metal pieces in the oil, I will change it tomorrow to see if the problem goes away.
Was one cylinder colder than the other one?
(Hope you did wear your gloves for touching them).

Try not starting the crazy and endless process of guessing.
We have shown you a method of discarding possible causes and changing the oil is not there.

If you have metal in the oil, it will not pass the filter and there is no way you could hear.
What you describe is either one cylinder missing firing intermittently or marginal fuel supply or valves too closed or autoignition (it sounds like loose metal when you open the throttle at low speeds).

Besides the previous advices, check that the connections to both spark coils are solidly attached.
__________________________________________________
Motofool
.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
"Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí
Motofool is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 8th, 2013, 10:08 AM   #14
FvnnyL3tt3r1ng
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
FvnnyL3tt3r1ng's Avatar
 
Name: Justin
Location: Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001

Posts: A lot.
I only put 87 octane in my tank once and the engine knocked under decel. I read in the owners manual 91 minimum so I've always used 93....
__________________________________________________
Mods: Offset clutch pressure plate
FvnnyL3tt3r1ng is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 8th, 2013, 10:10 AM   #15
jackliu239
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R

Posts: 81
Cylinder is this white metal thing that I circled right? If so, both lift and right side seems to be of equal temperature.

Also I only put 91 octane in the tank.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG20130908100551707.jpg (108.5 KB, 10 views)
jackliu239 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 8th, 2013, 10:21 AM   #16
Motofool
Daily Ninjette rider
 
Motofool's Avatar
 
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackliu239 View Post
Cylinder is this white metal thing that I circled right? If so, both lift and right side seems to be of equal temperature.

Also I only put 91 octane in the tank.
Those are the bowls of the carburetors.

Again, you may be able to find some local Ninjette member willing to check your problem first hand.
Where are you located at?

These are the cylinders' heads, where the combustion happens and heat is generated:

__________________________________________________
Motofool
.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
"Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí
Motofool is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 8th, 2013, 11:41 AM   #17
Panda
not an actual panda
 
Name: dan
Location: philadelphia
Join Date: Aug 2012

Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250, 2009 CBR600RR (Sold)

Posts: A lot.
Couldn't he spit on the exhaust? Each cylinder vents into a separate header right?
Panda is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 8th, 2013, 11:53 AM   #18
Motofool
Daily Ninjette rider
 
Motofool's Avatar
 
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panda View Post
Couldn't he spit on the exhaust? Each cylinder vents into a separate header right?
Yes, same thing, this is a pre-gen.

I believe that the OP has a complicate problem or group of problems and little experience to troubleshoot it effectively.

The only way to do it is testing and eliminating possibilities systematically.

I have insisted on the misfiring because the engine is exceptionally weak while not fully bogging or dying, although I may be wrong and other important factors as carburetor, electrical, valves or compression may be making some contribution.

A experienced rider may be able of detecting the problem(s) easily by just observing how the bike sounds and behaves.
This is OP's first bike; it is very hard for him to know what is going on.
__________________________________________________
Motofool
.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
"Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí
Motofool is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 8th, 2013, 11:58 AM   #19
Lychee
sail away
 
Lychee's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Location: San Jose
Join Date: Jul 2012

Motorcycle(s): gixxer (sold), ninjette (upgrade!)

Posts: 964
Blog Entries: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackliu239 View Post
Cylinder is this white metal thing that I circled right? If so, both lift and right side seems to be of equal temperature.

Also I only put 91 octane in the tank.


Where are you located?
__________________________________________________
Unregistered found this post helpful.
Track Day Preparation Checklist
1. Financial 2. Mental 3. Physical 4. Gear / Bike
Lychee is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old September 8th, 2013, 12:58 PM   #20
jackliu239
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R

Posts: 81
I am located in the general Los Angeles area. It would be great if I can take the bike to someone to help me take a look at it.
jackliu239 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 8th, 2013, 01:51 PM   #21
GREY NINJA
ninjette.org member
 
Name: ninja
Location: LAND OF OZ
Join Date: Sep 2012

Motorcycle(s): 2002 ninja 250

Posts: 100
Only 300 mile on it, was it stored for awhile?---if so check spark for ignition(maybe running on one cylinder) also (see if plugs are wet) then check carbs or have a shop check it out for you. just a shot
GREY NINJA is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 8th, 2013, 08:04 PM   #22
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng View Post
I only put 87 octane in my tank once and the engine knocked under decel. I read in the owners manual 91 minimum so I've always used 93....
An engine will detonate under load - not decel.

87 octane is all you need. Any more octane than required gives you less power and mileage.

Go up in octane only if you need to get away from Ethanol. 87 w/o Ethanol will be the best if you can get it.
jkv45 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 8th, 2013, 08:10 PM   #23
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackliu239 View Post
the bike have 350 miles so far and still in break in period, and I changed oil when it was 100 miles. I think there might be metal pieces in the oil, I will change it tomorrow to see if the problem goes away.

Also when I let go of the handle bar, it start to wobble very fast. Maybe wheel is out of alignment?
Your 2006 has 350 miles on it?

If that is the case, there's a good chance the carbs need to be taken apart and cleaned because of varnish build-up if it wasn't properly stored the entire time.

Also look inside the tank and see if there is rust. You may have rust partially blocking a screen and the fuel flow.

Check the tire pressure if you haven't recently.

Make sure there's nothing under the seat blocking the intake snorkel.
jkv45 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 19th, 2013, 06:28 PM   #24
jackliu239
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013

Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R

Posts: 81
Just want to give a final update.

Today I finally solve the problem, my Ninja no longer jolts with uneven power output when I accelerates.

I took the bike to a local motorcycle repair shop, and I show the problem to the mechanic who speaks no English, I had someone translate my problem to him, he rev the engine once and then told me "spark plugs", he said one or more spark plugs is not functioning correctly.

So I went on ebay, spend 6 dollar brought a pair of NGK spark plug as well as the Ninja 250 tool kit (40 dollar ), I was finally able to took out the spark plug and I notice the burn pattern on one is a lot less darker than the other, after I replace it I took it for a test drive and the acceleration was very smooth, however the clicking noise remains, but it does not effect the performance. Since the bike just reached 500 miles, I'll wait a while until it is fully break in to do a valve adjustment or something.

All is well
jackliu239 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 19th, 2013, 09:04 PM   #25
Rollingmenace
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Zach
Location: Colorado Springs
Join Date: Mar 2011

Motorcycle(s): 96 Ninja 250EX , 87 CBR 1000, 86 TRX 260R, 86 KXT 250, 84 ATC 200X, 82 ATC 250R (w/CR480)

Posts: 134
Good to hear u got it going ... BUT.... Like stated before there could be other problems here... Bear with me but if you pulled the plugs and one is considerably darker than other and your bike was running like crap... The problem goes beyond just a spark plug issue... New plugs will only be a bandaid for another issue and will likely fail in the future possibly leaving you stranded....
Here is my opinion.. For some reason your plugs are showing two different fuel conditions... The symptoms of either a spark or fuel issue ... The fact of age of your bike and low mileage leads me to believe its a fuel issue... I'd start as a bare minimum pulling inspecting and thuroughly cleaning the carbs... .. If you choose to do so it can be done with basic hand tools a ziplock or gladware plastic bowl , few cans of carb cleaner and a little compressed air... Pull inspect, and clean carbs reinstall ... Run it around the block a few times rip it up and down the Main Street put 10 - 15 miles on it bring it back pull the plugs and check the color you want to have them both look the same
Rollingmenace is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
high rpm issue rider_tim 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 17 September 23rd, 2014 04:30 PM
Just cleaned carbs - now stuttering at low RPM, fine at high RPM Ohio 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 20 August 5th, 2014 10:30 PM
High rpm running mikromo General Motorcycling Discussion 4 September 21st, 2013 09:46 AM
Rpm too high? mms1361 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 2 April 3rd, 2011 07:20 PM
RPM's on highway-a little high? fiberoptx 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 1 September 11th, 2009 08:50 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:59 AM.


Website uptime monitoring Host-tracker.com
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are © Copyright 2022 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.