Bike STILL won't start. Details inside. Out of ideas :/

CynicalC · May 19th, 2011, 01:21 AM

Edit: Bike runs now - poorly.
-----------------------------------
(OLD)

The bike is a '96 CA model ex250. It's got about 5k miles on it. The bike ran and rode fine before it sat for a few years. Did not run when I picked it up a couple months ago. Sat with gas in it for about 3 years.

Here's a log of everything done to the bike. Should help troubleshooting I hope.

- Removed carbs, cleaned thoroughly
- Set float height
- Bench synced them
- Idle mixture screws backed out 2.5 turns
- Idle speed screw backed off all the way
- Replaced cracked float bowl gaskets
- Shimmed needles with 1 #4 washer on each.
- Changed the oil and filter.
- New spark plugs
- New battery
- Replaced gas tank with 49 state tank and removed emissions equipment.

Aside from all that, I changed the front caliper, bled the brakes. That's pretty much it. The bike is naked right now. No fairings, lights, horn. Still has stock exhaust and airbox.

The good: It definitely has a strong spark in both cylinders, the carbs are definitely getting fuel, no blown fuses and I've got good compression.

Starting: Ignition on, kickstand up, neutral, clutch in, killswitch in run, petcock on, choke off.

johnjohn · May 19th, 2011, 04:26 AM

These are cold blooded bitches, why are you not using the choke on start up?

CynicalC · May 19th, 2011, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnjohn

These are cold blooded bitches, why are you not using the choke on start up?

I tried it with choke on and off. With the throttle closed and wide open. Nothing seems to be working.

Jinx250 · May 19th, 2011, 08:41 AM

If the start button does nothing, then check the relay. If that's fine then you need to check the safety switches at the clutch lever and kickstand. Don't wait to do the valvve adjustment though. Since you're already mostly in there, go ahead and knock it out.

Are you sure the carbs are clean? Nothing personal, but a lot of people say the carbs are clean when they did not go through and hit every single passage and ensured there was no obstruction anywhere. Not saying that's your issue, but it happens a LOT.

Have you confirmed that gas is getting into the cylinder? Assuming you have the 3 requirements to run (air, fuel, spark) then you have an odd situation. The solution sounds silly, but I've seen it work and noone can explain why. Swap out the "new" plugs with some more new ones, preferably Iridium. Usually, assuming you have no other issues in the 3 link chain the bike should start. Also, use full choke next time you try, and make sure the carb bowls are full of fuel. You can easily fill the bowls without cranking using a manual vacuum pump.

CynicalC · May 19th, 2011, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinx250

If the start button does nothing, then check the relay. If that's fine then you need to check the safety switches at the clutch lever and kickstand. Don't wait to do the valvve adjustment though. Since you're already mostly in there, go ahead and knock it out.

Are you sure the carbs are clean? Nothing personal, but a lot of people say the carbs are clean when they did not go through and hit every single passage and ensured there was no obstruction anywhere. Not saying that's your issue, but it happens a LOT.

Have you confirmed that gas is getting into the cylinder? Assuming you have the 3 requirements to run (air, fuel, spark) then you have an odd situation. The solution sounds silly, but I've seen it work and noone can explain why. Swap out the "new" plugs with some more new ones, preferably Iridium. Usually, assuming you have no other issues in the 3 link chain the bike should start. Also, use full choke next time you try, and make sure the carb bowls are full of fuel. You can easily fill the bowls without cranking using a manual vacuum pump.

Thanks. Yup the carbs are squeaky clean now. I had them in the shop soaking for a couple days. Got all the passageways clean with copper wire and carb cleaner, then compressed air. Had all the jets out and cleaned them individually too. The reason I didn't think it was the clutch or kickstand switch is because the neutral switch sensor definitely works. So it should be able to start even with the clutch out and stand down since it knows it's out of gear.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Underst...afety_switches

The plugs I took out were dark and smelled like fresh gas, so I'm pretty sure they're getting fuel. I replaced them with the recommended NGK CR8HSA, not off brand. I can pull the new ones out and see what they look like now after trying to start it.

CynicalC · May 19th, 2011, 05:10 PM

Success! Well mostly. I was feeling good after work and decided to go tinker while I had daylight. Swapped the starter solenoid for the hell of it. Starter button still doesn't work, but with full choke and WOT I barely got her to putt to life. Took some persuasion but she runs now with a bit of an erratic idle. Throttle and return cables need to be lubed for sure so I'll get to that...

But it's draining quite a bit of gas from the clear tube between the carbs. So I'm gonna have to read a bit to find the solution for that...

Also seemed like there was maybe oil seeping out of #1 exhaust at the head... I tightened down the flanges. Is that anything I should be worried about?

Lastly, seems like it runs fine and if I put the bike on the side stand after a few seconds it just dies...

FrugalNinja250 · May 20th, 2011, 06:29 AM

Your float needles aren't doing their job, you need to pull the carbs back apart and clean the needles and seats. Inspect the needles, the tips should not have any grooves.

CynicalC · May 20th, 2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Your float needles aren't doing their job, you need to pull the carbs back apart and clean the needles and seats. Inspect the needles, the tips should not have any grooves.

Hmm they looked perfect when I had them out but I'll take another look. Should I take out the shims I added?

CynicalC · May 20th, 2011, 05:52 PM

Ok the needles were still mint as I suspected. I took the shims out, seems to run about the same. But there's literally a steady stream of gas coming out that clear drain tube while it's idling.

Also I think I narrowed the starter problem down to the solenoid or somewhere between there and the switch. I took the switch apart and jumped the contacts with a screwdriver and still got nothing.

CynicalC · May 20th, 2011, 09:52 PM

Does anyone know why there would be so much gas coming out of that drain?

crazymater91 · May 20th, 2011, 10:30 PM

Could be the float level ain't set correct

CynicalC · May 21st, 2011, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazymater91

Could be the float level ain't set correct

Would they be too high then? I just set them to spec right before final assembly :/

mrlmd · May 21st, 2011, 07:44 AM

When you start it, leave the throttle alone and only set the choke 1/2-3/4 of the way and hit the start button, or in your case, short the solenoid to get juice to the starter motor. If it won't start in 2 sec., advance the choke a tiny bit more. You may also be flooding it by turning the throttle way on as you are doing, that is not necessary and may be adding to your difficulty. Read the owners manual.

crazymater91 · May 21st, 2011, 07:57 AM

If the seats are clean it would almost. Seam that way .....but with out being there its kinda hard to tell

CynicalC · May 22nd, 2011, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazymater91

If the seats are clean it would almost. Seam that way .....but with out being there its kinda hard to tell

What seats are you talking about? Should I try running some seafoam through it before taking the carbs apart again then?

crazymater91 · May 22nd, 2011, 07:19 AM

The float needle seats ..you can try seafrom but if its a lot of gas coming out of that hose it probably won't help

Jinx250 · May 23rd, 2011, 09:19 AM

I think you're confusing the main needles (where you shimmed) with the float needles, which control gas coming into the carbs.

CynicalC · May 23rd, 2011, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinx250

I think you're confusing the main needles (where you shimmed) with the float needles, which control gas coming into the carbs.

Yes I was >_< Regardless, everything still looked new in the carbs. I'll double check the float height next time I get a chance to work on it.

pilot815 · May 25th, 2011, 03:28 PM

Check the float height using the tube method. I measured mine and set them and they still leaked a lot of fuel. Tank the tank off the bike and set it somewhere secure. Take the carbs and run a fuel line to the tank and hook up a vacuum line to the petcock. Take some clear hose and connect it to the nipple on the bottom of one of the float bowls. Hold the hose vertical to the carb. Create a vacuum on the hose to the petcock by sucking on it, as the gas fills the float bowls, it will also fill the hose. The gas level in the hose should only get to the line in the floatbowl. Repeat for other side. One of mine was fine the other never shut off and ran up over the top of the carbs. I took it apart again, cleaned the seats and needles and it worked just fine after that.

All this can be done with the carbs on the bike, but its much more difficult.

CynicalC · May 25th, 2011, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilot815

Check the float height using the tube method. I measured mine and set them and they still leaked a lot of fuel. Tank the tank off the bike and set it somewhere secure. Take the carbs and run a fuel line to the tank and hook up a vacuum line to the petcock. Take some clear hose and connect it to the nipple on the bottom of one of the float bowls. Hold the hose vertical to the carb. Create a vacuum on the hose to the petcock by sucking on it, as the gas fills the float bowls, it will also fill the hose. The gas level in the hose should only get to the line in the floatbowl. Repeat for other side. One of mine was fine the other never shut off and ran up over the top of the carbs. I took it apart again, cleaned the seats and needles and it worked just fine after that.

All this can be done with the carbs on the bike, but its much more difficult.

Thanks for the tip. I'll try to get the carbs off today. I'm just gonna double check the float height and float needles since I'll have them off the bike.

pilot815 · May 25th, 2011, 05:52 PM

Im also going through similar troubleshooting on my wifes 05. I have it running, but its got vacuum leaks all over. Little by little its getting better as im chasing them down. Its amazing what little o-rings will do to the carb!

CynicalC · May 27th, 2011, 09:47 PM

Ugh I've almost had it with this bike. Took the carbs back apart, floats were set right at 17mm like I thought. Float needles still look perfect and the seats are clean. I raised the floats up to 15-16. Bike fired right up after putting it all back together, but I still have the same problem. That tube is just dripping fuel steadily. And the idle is all over the place. Starting it with the choke on - cold. It'll start and then just start revving higher and higher until I take the choke down. Then it'll fall, and if I rev it, it'll rev up and stay in that one spot for like 15 seconds before coming back down. It just won't normalize. Driving me insane. >_<

k-os · May 27th, 2011, 10:45 PM

Which tube are you talking about? Do you have a picture to reference to? Your issue with the stall after revving it may be diaphragms that aren't seated correctly. Check that they're not pinched.

pilot815 · May 28th, 2011, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CynicalC

Ugh I've almost had it with this bike. Took the carbs back apart, floats were set right at 17mm like I thought. Float needles still look perfect and the seats are clean. I raised the floats up to 15-16. Bike fired right up after putting it all back together, but I still have the same problem. That tube is just dripping fuel steadily. And the idle is all over the place. Starting it with the choke on - cold. It'll start and then just start revving higher and higher until I take the choke down. Then it'll fall, and if I rev it, it'll rev up and stay in that one spot for like 15 seconds before coming back down. It just won't normalize. Driving me insane. >_<

You didnt do the float level check like i said. Raising the float to 15-16 will make it worse. As i mentioned earlier the floats on mine were set at 17 but one carb was leaking so bad that fuel was forcing itself between the oring on the floatbowl.

Also do a check for vacuum leaks by spraying carb cleaner on hoses and other parts of the carb to check for vacuum leaks. Mine was missing orings from the idle screws and also from the coasting enricher.

CynicalC · May 28th, 2011, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-os

Which tube are you talking about? Do you have a picture to reference to? Your issue with the stall after revving it may be diaphragms that aren't seated correctly. Check that they're not pinched.

I'll get a pic and maybe video when it stops pouring. It's the clear drain tube that comes from between the carbs and dumps on the right side of the bike opposite the side stand. I just had the diaphragm caps off and they're both seated properly and in good condition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilot815

You didnt do the float level check like i said. Raising the float to 15-16 will make it worse. As i mentioned earlier the floats on mine were set at 17 but one carb was leaking so bad that fuel was forcing itself between the oring on the floatbowl.

Also do a check for vacuum leaks by spraying carb cleaner on hoses and other parts of the carb to check for vacuum leaks. Mine was missing orings from the idle screws and also from the coasting enricher.

Yeah that seems like it'd be easier to do with the arbs on the bike actually. I'll give it a shot. And I can't remember if I saw orings on the idle mixture screws...

pilot815 · May 28th, 2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CynicalC

Yeah that seems like it'd be easier to do with the carbs on the bike actually. I'll give it a shot. And I can't remember if I saw orings on the idle mixture screws...

Just keep in mind that it is difficult to open the screws on the floatbowl drains. Keep in mind that this is the only accurate way to check the float level. Checking the float height only works if everything else is set just perfect.

CynicalC · May 29th, 2011, 05:45 PM

Getting to the drain screws is no problem. I just did it to drain the carbs before taking them off. I'll get a piece of clear tube and try that and look for more vacuum leaks.

Felipe the Ant · May 29th, 2011, 06:06 PM

Did you check to make sure the floats aren't leaking?

CynicalC · May 29th, 2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felipe the Ant

Did you check to make sure the floats aren't leaking?

You mean filling up with gas? I didn't check but I think I would have noticed. I guess one more thing to look at if I ever get to taking the carbs off the bike again. I'm really frustrated with it right now.

Felipe the Ant · May 31st, 2011, 07:50 AM

Yeah, that or if there's a bunch of crap on them making them heavier than they're supposed to be, or if something isn't letting them move freely

FrugalNinja250 · May 31st, 2011, 08:25 AM

The floats have enough buoyancy to force the needle closed and stop the flow of fuel. If the float and needle system is working properly fuel cannot leak from the overflow tube. It's a physical impossibility. That means there is still a problem with the float and needle assemblies.

If it were my bike this is what I would do next: I'd remove the carbs and remove the float bowls, leaving the floats in place. Then, over a bucket, I'd hook up an IV of mineral spirits (less flammable than gasoline, easier to handle) to the fuel inlet of the carbs and push up on the floats to see which needle is still flowing with the float raised. I would also see if either float had fluid in it, and see if they would sink or leak in a cup of mineral spirits.

CynicalC · May 31st, 2011, 02:50 PM

Thanks guys. It's making sense. I'll try your suggestions.

CynicalC · June 3rd, 2011, 02:01 AM

Ok I think I might have found the culprit. Seems like the new tank I got may have had some bits of debris in it, like tiny little pieces of paint chips or something, and the petcock that came with it didn't come with a fuel filter on the reserve pickup. So it looks like some little splinters of crap made their way through the carbs. There was a bit in the float bowls and sure enough, a little piece on the side of one float needle that may or may not have caused it to seat improperly. Anyway I take pictures of things just as a record for myself. So here's some of them. But I have them back together now and when I blow on the fuel inlet tube, if I tilt it so the floats are raised it makes a perfect seal and nothing gets through. I'll flush it out and get an inline filter before putting it back on the bike. But I HOPE that's the last of it. :|

Broke it all down and blew everything down with compressed air.

The float needles are perfect still.

So I checked to make sure the floats floated. (heh) No leaks here.

Reset the float height to exactly 17mm.

Re-shimmed the needles. I read people have most success with 2 washers on each, so that's my starting point. I also have a 2-1 Muzzy system I'll be putting on so that should be a good match. They're stainless m3 washers, about .5mm thick.

I also noticed that one of the diaphragms had a very slight defect on one of the edges that kept it from seating exactly right, so I took care of that. Otherwise the diaphragms are in very good condition.

FrugalNinja250 · June 3rd, 2011, 06:25 AM

Probably a good idea to install a quality inline fuel filter.

k-os · June 3rd, 2011, 06:51 AM

The debris that got into your carbs may have been a tank lining the PO had put in? Do you know if the tank was sealed at all?

CynicalC · June 3rd, 2011, 07:36 AM

Bought it from a motorcycle salvage yard. Outside was primered and inside looked spotless. I don't think it was sealed because the petcock looked like new still and I don't think it had ever come off the tank before.

pilot815 · June 3rd, 2011, 11:11 PM

What do you have the idle air mix screws set to? They look like they are turned to different intervals in that pic.

You say it runs poorly, what exactly is running poor? Have you synched the carbs? What are the valve intervals?

Good job getting it running. Feels good, dont it?

CynicalC · June 5th, 2011, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilot815

What do you have the idle air mix screws set to? They look like they are turned to different intervals in that pic.

You say it runs poorly, what exactly is running poor? Have you synched the carbs? What are the valve intervals?

Good job getting it running. Feels good, dont it?

It's been running for a while now, finally got to updating the first post. Both screws are at 2.5 turns out from fully seated. (the heads don't match when they are fully seated) I still have to put the carbs back on the bike now. California is not as sunny as tv would lead you to believe.

I bench synched the carbs lasttime they were off with feeler gauges. A buddy has a manometer I can use but it's close enough for now. Valves haven't been done yet but I'm getting there. Bike ran fine before "the long sleep" so they definitely shouldn't be keeping the bike from running at least 95% normal. The idle is funny. If I rev it, sometimes it will rev normal. Other times it will hang at whatever I rev it to for a minute then drop like a rock. I'll check for vacuum leaks when the carbs are back on.

CynicalC · June 15th, 2011, 08:05 PM

Just an update, and a thanks for the help. Like I mentioned in one of the previous posts, the petcock installed in the new tank didn't have a filter on the reserve pickup like my old one did. (That's what I get for assuming, I guess.) I flushed the carbs and the lines and installed a $4 clear fuel filter from kragen. Also re-shimmed the needles and the bike fired up and runs great now.

But of course, that couldn't be the end of it. After the first ride, I parked the bike in the street. When I started it again, it would stall when I put it into gear. I'm guessing kickstand switch is stuck. I'm think I can just ditch the switch and splice the wires together and it'll be fine? And I still have to chase down the starter button signal wire and see where it's broken. Then a valve job. then figure out why it's smoking. Man what a lemon!

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May 19th, 2011, 01:21 AM	#1
CynicalC ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Colin Location: Bay Area Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): '96 EX250 Posts: A lot.	Bike STILL won't start. Details inside. Out of ideas :/ Edit: Bike runs now - poorly. ----------------------------------- (OLD) The bike is a '96 CA model ex250. It's got about 5k miles on it. The bike ran and rode fine before it sat for a few years. Did not run when I picked it up a couple months ago. Sat with gas in it for about 3 years. Here's a log of everything done to the bike. Should help troubleshooting I hope. - Removed carbs, cleaned thoroughly - Set float height - Bench synced them - Idle mixture screws backed out 2.5 turns - Idle speed screw backed off all the way - Replaced cracked float bowl gaskets - Shimmed needles with 1 #4 washer on each. - Changed the oil and filter. - New spark plugs - New battery - Replaced gas tank with 49 state tank and removed emissions equipment. Aside from all that, I changed the front caliper, bled the brakes. That's pretty much it. The bike is naked right now. No fairings, lights, horn. Still has stock exhaust and airbox. The good: It definitely has a strong spark in both cylinders, the carbs are definitely getting fuel, no blown fuses and I've got good compression. Starting: Ignition on, kickstand up, neutral, clutch in, killswitch in run, petcock on, choke off. Last futzed with by CynicalC; June 3rd, 2011 at 12:58 AM.

May 19th, 2011, 04:26 AM	#2
johnjohn ninjette.org member Name: John Location: Caledonia, Ontario, Canada Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): Honda, Buell, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha Posts: 170	These are cold blooded bitches, why are you not using the choke on start up?

May 19th, 2011, 08:41 AM	#4
Jinx250 Smoker Name: Bob Location: SoCal Join Date: Dec 2010 Motorcycle(s): Guess.... Posts: 556	If the start button does nothing, then check the relay. If that's fine then you need to check the safety switches at the clutch lever and kickstand. Don't wait to do the valvve adjustment though. Since you're already mostly in there, go ahead and knock it out. Are you sure the carbs are clean? Nothing personal, but a lot of people say the carbs are clean when they did not go through and hit every single passage and ensured there was no obstruction anywhere. Not saying that's your issue, but it happens a LOT. Have you confirmed that gas is getting into the cylinder? Assuming you have the 3 requirements to run (air, fuel, spark) then you have an odd situation. The solution sounds silly, but I've seen it work and noone can explain why. Swap out the "new" plugs with some more new ones, preferably Iridium. Usually, assuming you have no other issues in the 3 link chain the bike should start. Also, use full choke next time you try, and make sure the carb bowls are full of fuel. You can easily fill the bowls without cranking using a manual vacuum pump.

May 19th, 2011, 05:10 PM	#6
CynicalC ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Colin Location: Bay Area Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): '96 EX250 Posts: A lot.	Success! Well mostly. I was feeling good after work and decided to go tinker while I had daylight. Swapped the starter solenoid for the hell of it. Starter button still doesn't work, but with full choke and WOT I barely got her to putt to life. Took some persuasion but she runs now with a bit of an erratic idle. Throttle and return cables need to be lubed for sure so I'll get to that... But it's draining quite a bit of gas from the clear tube between the carbs. So I'm gonna have to read a bit to find the solution for that... Also seemed like there was maybe oil seeping out of #1 exhaust at the head... I tightened down the flanges. Is that anything I should be worried about? Lastly, seems like it runs fine and if I put the bike on the side stand after a few seconds it just dies...

May 20th, 2011, 06:29 AM	#7
FrugalNinja250 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Frugal Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.	Your float needles aren't doing their job, you need to pull the carbs back apart and clean the needles and seats. Inspect the needles, the tips should not have any grooves.

May 20th, 2011, 05:52 PM	#9
CynicalC ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Colin Location: Bay Area Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): '96 EX250 Posts: A lot.	Ok the needles were still mint as I suspected. I took the shims out, seems to run about the same. But there's literally a steady stream of gas coming out that clear drain tube while it's idling. Also I think I narrowed the starter problem down to the solenoid or somewhere between there and the switch. I took the switch apart and jumped the contacts with a screwdriver and still got nothing.

May 20th, 2011, 09:52 PM	#10
CynicalC ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Colin Location: Bay Area Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): '96 EX250 Posts: A lot.	Does anyone know why there would be so much gas coming out of that drain?

May 20th, 2011, 10:30 PM	#11
crazymater91 ninjette.org member Name: Marcus Location: brooksville Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 1994 kawasaki ninja 250 Posts: 54	Could be the float level ain't set correct

May 21st, 2011, 07:44 AM	#13
mrlmd ninjette.org sage Name: Marc Location: Crawfordville, Florida Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Suzuki S50, 2006 Kawasaki Ninja EX250F, 1990 Honda PC800, 2000 Yamaha TW200 Posts: 848	When you start it, leave the throttle alone and only set the choke 1/2-3/4 of the way and hit the start button, or in your case, short the solenoid to get juice to the starter motor. If it won't start in 2 sec., advance the choke a tiny bit more. You may also be flooding it by turning the throttle way on as you are doing, that is not necessary and may be adding to your difficulty. Read the owners manual.

May 21st, 2011, 07:57 AM	#14
crazymater91 ninjette.org member Name: Marcus Location: brooksville Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 1994 kawasaki ninja 250 Posts: 54	If the seats are clean it would almost. Seam that way .....but with out being there its kinda hard to tell

May 22nd, 2011, 07:19 AM	#16
crazymater91 ninjette.org member Name: Marcus Location: brooksville Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 1994 kawasaki ninja 250 Posts: 54	The float needle seats ..you can try seafrom but if its a lot of gas coming out of that hose it probably won't help

May 23rd, 2011, 09:19 AM	#17
Jinx250 Smoker Name: Bob Location: SoCal Join Date: Dec 2010 Motorcycle(s): Guess.... Posts: 556	I think you're confusing the main needles (where you shimmed) with the float needles, which control gas coming into the carbs.

May 25th, 2011, 03:28 PM	#19
pilot815 ninjette.org member Name: Cory Location: South Texas Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Mine: 09 KLR650 Wife: 05 Ninja 250 Posts: 33	Check the float height using the tube method. I measured mine and set them and they still leaked a lot of fuel. Tank the tank off the bike and set it somewhere secure. Take the carbs and run a fuel line to the tank and hook up a vacuum line to the petcock. Take some clear hose and connect it to the nipple on the bottom of one of the float bowls. Hold the hose vertical to the carb. Create a vacuum on the hose to the petcock by sucking on it, as the gas fills the float bowls, it will also fill the hose. The gas level in the hose should only get to the line in the floatbowl. Repeat for other side. One of mine was fine the other never shut off and ran up over the top of the carbs. I took it apart again, cleaned the seats and needles and it worked just fine after that. All this can be done with the carbs on the bike, but its much more difficult.

May 25th, 2011, 05:52 PM	#21
pilot815 ninjette.org member Name: Cory Location: South Texas Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Mine: 09 KLR650 Wife: 05 Ninja 250 Posts: 33	Im also going through similar troubleshooting on my wifes 05. I have it running, but its got vacuum leaks all over. Little by little its getting better as im chasing them down. Its amazing what little o-rings will do to the carb!

May 27th, 2011, 09:47 PM	#22
CynicalC ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Colin Location: Bay Area Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): '96 EX250 Posts: A lot.	Ugh I've almost had it with this bike. Took the carbs back apart, floats were set right at 17mm like I thought. Float needles still look perfect and the seats are clean. I raised the floats up to 15-16. Bike fired right up after putting it all back together, but I still have the same problem. That tube is just dripping fuel steadily. And the idle is all over the place. Starting it with the choke on - cold. It'll start and then just start revving higher and higher until I take the choke down. Then it'll fall, and if I rev it, it'll rev up and stay in that one spot for like 15 seconds before coming back down. It just won't normalize. Driving me insane. >_<

May 27th, 2011, 10:45 PM	#23
k-os ninjette.org sage Name: Andy Location: Sheboygan, WI Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 1988 Honda Hawk NT650, 1989 Honda Hawk NT650, 1997 GSXR750 Track Bike Posts: 890	Which tube are you talking about? Do you have a picture to reference to? Your issue with the stall after revving it may be diaphragms that aren't seated correctly. Check that they're not pinched.

May 29th, 2011, 05:45 PM	#27
CynicalC ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Colin Location: Bay Area Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): '96 EX250 Posts: A lot.	Getting to the drain screws is no problem. I just did it to drain the carbs before taking them off. I'll get a piece of clear tube and try that and look for more vacuum leaks.

May 29th, 2011, 06:06 PM	#28
Felipe the Ant ninjette.org sage Name: . Location: . Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R SE GREEN! Posts: 562	Did you check to make sure the floats aren't leaking?

May 31st, 2011, 07:50 AM	#30
Felipe the Ant ninjette.org sage Name: . Location: . Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R SE GREEN! Posts: 562	Yeah, that or if there's a bunch of crap on them making them heavier than they're supposed to be, or if something isn't letting them move freely

May 31st, 2011, 08:25 AM	#31
FrugalNinja250 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Frugal Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.	The floats have enough buoyancy to force the needle closed and stop the flow of fuel. If the float and needle system is working properly fuel cannot leak from the overflow tube. It's a physical impossibility. That means there is still a problem with the float and needle assemblies. If it were my bike this is what I would do next: I'd remove the carbs and remove the float bowls, leaving the floats in place. Then, over a bucket, I'd hook up an IV of mineral spirits (less flammable than gasoline, easier to handle) to the fuel inlet of the carbs and push up on the floats to see which needle is still flowing with the float raised. I would also see if either float had fluid in it, and see if they would sink or leak in a cup of mineral spirits.

May 31st, 2011, 02:50 PM	#32
CynicalC ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Colin Location: Bay Area Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): '96 EX250 Posts: A lot.	Thanks guys. It's making sense. I'll try your suggestions.

June 3rd, 2011, 02:01 AM	#33
CynicalC ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Colin Location: Bay Area Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): '96 EX250 Posts: A lot.	Ok I think I might have found the culprit. Seems like the new tank I got may have had some bits of debris in it, like tiny little pieces of paint chips or something, and the petcock that came with it didn't come with a fuel filter on the reserve pickup. So it looks like some little splinters of crap made their way through the carbs. There was a bit in the float bowls and sure enough, a little piece on the side of one float needle that may or may not have caused it to seat improperly. Anyway I take pictures of things just as a record for myself. So here's some of them. But I have them back together now and when I blow on the fuel inlet tube, if I tilt it so the floats are raised it makes a perfect seal and nothing gets through. I'll flush it out and get an inline filter before putting it back on the bike. But I HOPE that's the last of it. :\| Broke it all down and blew everything down with compressed air. The float needles are perfect still. So I checked to make sure the floats floated. (heh) No leaks here. Reset the float height to exactly 17mm. Re-shimmed the needles. I read people have most success with 2 washers on each, so that's my starting point. I also have a 2-1 Muzzy system I'll be putting on so that should be a good match. They're stainless m3 washers, about .5mm thick. I also noticed that one of the diaphragms had a very slight defect on one of the edges that kept it from seating exactly right, so I took care of that. Otherwise the diaphragms are in very good condition.

June 3rd, 2011, 06:25 AM	#34
FrugalNinja250 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Frugal Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.	Probably a good idea to install a quality inline fuel filter.

June 3rd, 2011, 06:51 AM	#35
k-os ninjette.org sage Name: Andy Location: Sheboygan, WI Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 1988 Honda Hawk NT650, 1989 Honda Hawk NT650, 1997 GSXR750 Track Bike Posts: 890	The debris that got into your carbs may have been a tank lining the PO had put in? Do you know if the tank was sealed at all?

June 3rd, 2011, 07:36 AM	#36
CynicalC ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Colin Location: Bay Area Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): '96 EX250 Posts: A lot.	Bought it from a motorcycle salvage yard. Outside was primered and inside looked spotless. I don't think it was sealed because the petcock looked like new still and I don't think it had ever come off the tank before.

June 3rd, 2011, 11:11 PM	#37
pilot815 ninjette.org member Name: Cory Location: South Texas Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Mine: 09 KLR650 Wife: 05 Ninja 250 Posts: 33	What do you have the idle air mix screws set to? They look like they are turned to different intervals in that pic. You say it runs poorly, what exactly is running poor? Have you synched the carbs? What are the valve intervals? Good job getting it running. Feels good, dont it?

June 15th, 2011, 08:05 PM	#39
CynicalC ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Colin Location: Bay Area Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): '96 EX250 Posts: A lot.	Just an update, and a thanks for the help. Like I mentioned in one of the previous posts, the petcock installed in the new tank didn't have a filter on the reserve pickup like my old one did. (That's what I get for assuming, I guess.) I flushed the carbs and the lines and installed a $4 clear fuel filter from kragen. Also re-shimmed the needles and the bike fired up and runs great now. But of course, that couldn't be the end of it. After the first ride, I parked the bike in the street. When I started it again, it would stall when I put it into gear. I'm guessing kickstand switch is stuck. I'm think I can just ditch the switch and splice the wires together and it'll be fine? And I still have to chase down the starter button signal wire and see where it's broken. Then a valve job. then figure out why it's smoking. Man what a lemon!