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Old December 29th, 2011, 11:32 PM   #1
KawiKid860
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Am I weird? Also what I want in my next bike

Basically everyone talks about how fun the ninjette is to ride, unfortunately I wouldn't know. However one of the most common things I've heard is the constant need to shift makes it fun. On my 500, although nearly twice as powerful with slightly longer gearing, I still need to shift quite a bit. Usually average 40mph, in 4th gear, at 4000 rpms, convenient right? But having to shift so much sort of annoys me, like I feel if I had say a 600 with much longer gearing and I could cruise in 2nd gear rather than 4th I'd be happier, yet I can't be 100% sure because I haven't ridden a 600+ yet. Solutions I can think of would be to change the sprocket sizes, which I'm not interested in because longer gearing would make the bike less quick and its not ridiculously powerful to begin with (but it is no slouch!) or just starting off in 2nd gear rather than 1st, but thats sort of a hassle with the positive neutral finder and honestly the massive 30lb/ft of torque the 500 has isn't quite enough to take off in 2nd without a lot of clutch slippage. I guess my question is does anyone else prefer longer gearing and shifting less? Specifically those of you who've upgraded to a 600+ supersport. Which sort of correlates to what I've learned so far on what I want in my next bike, I like the 6-7k rpm kick my bike has and the pull through the top end, but the pull feels way too short having to shift at 10k, and I really like the feeling of nice low down power that say a cruiser or like an sv650/1000 would have but I honestly like the top end power a lot more, it's more fun to wind an engine out IMO at least on a bike.

Now seating position, on long 200+ mile rides my bike is perfectly comfortable EXCEPT my hips get a bit sore, I think lower rear sets would cure this, however just from sitting on various supersports I really like the aggressive feel that they have. Not sure on model years but, CBR600RR was definitely the most comfortable, ZX-6R (09+) and the new '12 gixxer 600/750 are tied and I was actually pleasantly surprised I could flat foot the 750. R6 is a no no for me. Now the way supersports feel is probably different to me because my body is conditioned to being somewhat leaned over on my own bike. Just looking for some tips or pointers and if anyone was/is in the same boat as me, only been riding for 4 months and 3500 miles and I'm honestly really happy with my bike, its not upgrade time yet.

Also not 100% sure if this fits in riding skills.. seemed like a good idea at the time though.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 12:40 AM   #2
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I'm a new rider myself, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. From your post however, it seems like all you want is a bike that can rev high and provide nice torque throughout the entire powerband. I think any supersport 600cc + can give you exactly that, just don't expect to use 4, 5, or 6th gear if you like revving super high. I have 3.5 months of riding experience on the new gen ninja and all I can say is that shifting keeps you on your toes. It takes much more coordination and concentration and for a new rider especially, it has the potential to solidify good riding habits. I love revving high through all the gears because its so much fun, and this is part of the reason why I think I'll be sticking with this bike for a while.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 01:24 AM   #3
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Yeah I understand how you could become complacent with not shifting a lot, and I don't wanna seem lazy lol I just think it would be nice to not HAVE to shift. That's one thing I envy about the 250 is that you can really wind it out in the city and not be doing insane speeds, Probably what gets you to 35mph on a 250 gets you to 60 on my bike and much much faster on anything bigger. The downfall to that is that when you really need power, on the 250 it might not be there the way you like it (although I understand the 250 is in most cases definitely enough power). Guess I'm gonna have to test ride some 600s to see how they feel, probably similar powerband wise to my bike, just with more overall power which I think is what I'm looking for. The 500 still keeps me happy though, plenty of power for all situations, even does just fine two up
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Old December 30th, 2011, 01:29 AM   #4
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Get a busa. Leave it in 3rd.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 01:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KawiKid860 View Post
Yeah I understand how you could become complacent with not shifting a lot, and I don't wanna seem lazy lol I just think it would be nice to not HAVE to shift. That's one thing I envy about the 250 is that you can really wind it out in the city and not be doing insane speeds, Probably what gets you to 35mph on a 250 gets you to 60 on my bike and much much faster on anything bigger. The downfall to that is that when you really need power, on the 250 it might not be there the way you like it (although I understand the 250 is in most cases definitely enough power). Guess I'm gonna have to test ride some 600s to see how they feel, probably similar powerband wise to my bike, just with more overall power which I think is what I'm looking for. The 500 still keeps me happy though, plenty of power for all situations, even does just fine two up


Yeah, that's a good idea. Riding two-up is where the ninjette fails. Its 249cc engine just doesn't have enough to perform like you would want it to. I've had a couple passengers on my bike and its okay, but its not comfortable and it definitely feels top heavy. It does however, ride quite smoothly and gently (two-up) because the combined weight of both people dull any consequences one might have while using the clutch and throttle.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 01:40 AM   #6
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busa in 3rd... its like a scooter! can we put a stall clutch on it?
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Old December 30th, 2011, 02:51 AM   #7
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Lol but busas are almost as ugly as scooters. Dunno if you're just poking at me or trying to imply that I shouldn't be lazy LOL I like shifting, but for city commute which I do a lot it'd just be easier to not have to shift as much, Still love banging it through the gears in the twisties. And on nice long empty straights.....
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Old December 30th, 2011, 02:52 AM   #8
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Just get a harley :P
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Old December 30th, 2011, 02:59 AM   #9
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Hahahaha I've ridden my moms harley. Torque is an amazing thing, scraping the floorboards when I'm not even trying to lean isn't! Maybe a zx-14. Extend the swing arm and sell my helmet, buy new flip flops and wifebeaters with the money.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 03:22 AM   #10
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you need to figure out what you are really after in a bike. do you use it to get places? to carry things? simply as a toy? if its a toy how do you play with it? do you push it or is it more a casual toy? it sounds you want to go long distance on it, and want lots of power... but still kinda nimble? it sounds like you want a sport-touring bike...

it sounds like you want a gold wing.

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Old December 30th, 2011, 06:46 AM   #11
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I suggest a Ducati.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 07:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex.s View Post
you need to figure out what you are really after in a bike. do you use it to get places? to carry things? simply as a toy? if its a toy how do you play with it? do you push it or is it more a casual toy? it sounds you want to go long distance on it, and want lots of power... but still kinda nimble?
^^ Start there.

Imma going to stay serious on this thread. I do not feel the need to shift “constantly” to make the 250 a fun ride. In fact, I run 80% of my route (55miles) in 3rd or in 4th if I feel like going a bit faster. Sure there are some straights where I have to shift, but once in the hard twisties, a smooth throttle roll from 7k to redline, rinse and repeat on the next corner. With short distances between corners on my normal route, your route may not be as twisty as mine though as that plays a large factor. If so, then a longer gears will be a welcome change. I normally run 15/47 on the ninja on both street and track, but will sometimes swap to stock gearing on the really tight stuff. Also, for the 2up riding on the 250, I did find myself shifting more while 2up but not a lot more. Mostly on the sweepers, all in all I just ride my route in 3rd instead of 4th. Sure it don’t really have the power I would like for 2up, but one can still rail 55mph down your favorite set of corners 2up.

Full disclosure on my 250 2up setup. I am 180lbs and my passenger is 180lbs.
1. Heavier fork oil
2. 4th position rear shock setting (preload)
3. Stock gearing
4. Shimmed carbs
5. Heavy handed on the brakes
6. A well trained passenger
7. Big balls

Everything else is bone stock and have no issue keeping up with the group as long as they are not going well above the posted speed limit.

Now, how all that compares to the same route on an 06 R6.

It’s like fire and forget. Put the bike in 3rd and leave it. Plenty of pulling power at the low end and a surge of power at the upper end (post 6k rpm). Although the R6 is a little doggish in the low end, I still do not feel the need to shift all the time. Compared to the 250 the R6 has a very aggressive ergo and I couldn’t see riding for long periods of time without breaks. This is even more true for me 2up. For me, it’s the knees that get sore, not the hips. It’s a compromise between ground clearance and comfort.

Like you, when I was newer I went through a stage where I thought I needed more power. But what I needed or really wanted was to learn how to go faster. And I learned that by getting education, experience and track time.

[I don’t recommend you do this]
And how that relates to shifting, it’s hella fun to come into a 90 degree corner pretty hot downshift from 5th to 3rd and feather the rear brake a bit to feel what happens to the rear tire and how it affects your turning.
[/I don’t recommend you do this]

When I ride I try to find the rhythm of the road and match that with my riding style. You will know when you get it right, you will shift less, smooth everything out, your focus will relax and narrow and it will feel a bit slow. YEP! I said it will feel slow but if you look down at the speedo it will show otherwise.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 10:53 AM   #13
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When I ride I try to find the rhythm of the road and match that with my riding style. You will know when you get it right, you will shift less, smooth everything out, your focus will relax and narrow and it will feel a bit slow. YEP! I said it will feel slow but if you look down at the speedo it will show otherwise.
that's the best description for what it feels like when you get it just right and you get into that perfect smooth and controlled groove with the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
I normally run 15/47 on the ninja on both street and track, but will sometimes swap to stock gearing on the really tight stuff.
just for the purpose of playing devils advocate, 15/47 on the ninja is nearly identical to 14/45

sixth gear at 7500 rpm, the speed with 14/45 is 59 mph, and the speed with 15/47 is 60.5 mph
http://faq.ninja250.org/speed/
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Old December 30th, 2011, 11:24 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
just for the purpose of playing devils advocate, 15/47 on the ninja is nearly identical to 14/45

sixth gear at 7500 rpm, the speed with 14/45 is 59 mph, and the speed with 15/47 is 60.5 mph
http://faq.ninja250.org/speed/
Will have to give that a try, it just might save me some time changing sprockets.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 03:35 PM   #15
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Definitely not getting a goldwing. Or anything of that sort lol.. too big. My commute to one school is basically all freeway at 60-80 depending on traffic and to the other school is like a 5 minute city ride, everywhere I go around town is usually within 15 minutes. Come spring and summer time however I plan to be doing longer distance rides as well, with lots of two up. My bike is a great all arounder and can handle all of that, but some other bikes may be able to handle it better. Not a fan of the Ninja 650R and its hardly an upgrade from the 500, + I want a 4 banger, so maybe like an FZ6(R)? At the same time I still want to try out the more aggressive seating position of 600 supersports, however for long periods of time they may not be comfortable and probably won't be too comfy for the passenger either. And I'm not too worried about power, I definitely would like to have 100+ horsepower to play around with but I don't need it by any means.
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Old December 30th, 2011, 03:44 PM   #16
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Do you want a upgrade so people think your cooler then you are. :P
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Old December 30th, 2011, 05:54 PM   #17
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Old December 31st, 2011, 03:12 AM   #18
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Hmm I'm gonna get a gixxer 1000 for the image, cuz gixxers are the cooliest and then ill never have to shift ill just ride 6th all the way to 190
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Old December 31st, 2011, 10:49 AM   #19
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Old December 31st, 2011, 01:59 PM   #20
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NOO DA GIXXER BE DA BEST YO.

In all seriousness though, I think a 600cc supersports gonna be what I'm looking at. Probably some not-super-sports as well. FZ6 anyone? Also like the F4i. As much as I don't like l1terbikes, if I came across a cbr954rr for a good price in good condition, I think I'd get it. Something about that bike just really attracts me to it..
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Old January 4th, 2012, 10:36 PM   #21
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Hey what about a good old Kawasaki ZX7R? They are a great bike. You get the Kawasaki power so you don't shift as much. Kinda a slug in the steering department but stable as hell!!!
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Old January 5th, 2012, 04:28 AM   #22
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Am I weird?
Yup.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 04:29 PM   #23
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Yup.
I was waiting for that response
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Old January 5th, 2012, 04:33 PM   #24
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Hey what about a good old Kawasaki ZX7R? They are a great bike. You get the Kawasaki power so you don't shift as much. Kinda a slug in the steering department but stable as hell!!!
I like the zx7s, but really I want something newer, and no offense to anyone but something less ugly too lol. Also would prefer fuel injection. Carbs are fine in the summer, but now that its colder in the winter takes forever to get it responsive
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Old January 5th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #25
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I suggest a Ducati.
+1 love my monster.

Also love passing guys on my harley floorboards draggin, apes flyin high. sucks to drag the primary cover though. pops the rear tire off the ground too easy.

But ninja 250 is really one very fun bike. Bought one for my kid to race and had a ton of fun on it. Thinking about racing endurance on it with him. You don't need a big liter bike to have fun.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 06:10 PM   #26
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apples and oranges

You're comparing a 500 parallel twin to a 600 IN LINE FOUR. I don't shift my 500 as much as my 250 either but you seem to be staying in the bottom half of the tach. when the 250 AND 500 live in the upper half, thats where the revving comes in and gets to to your sweet spot to cruise at. You rev a 600 gxsr and you'll break your front teeth on take-off and that's all, if your lucky. Happy Trails on the 500, Love mine.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #27
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You rev a 600 gxsr and you'll break your front teeth on take-off and that's all, if your lucky.
uhh.......... OK........
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Old January 10th, 2012, 01:32 PM   #28
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Lol I love my 500. Even more now that I've got it back from two weeks of the poor girl being in the shop ): I think I might've reversed what I want, I've been hitting 5th gear instead of 4th gear in the city lately so I'm at 4k instead of 5k at 45mph. Also gives me a little more leniency with engine braking and if I'm being lazy the 5>4 shift is smooth and non upsetting without using the clutch
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Old January 10th, 2012, 04:32 PM   #29
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For me it was having the 250 in the shop so I became an exclusively 500 rider for a bit (I left the 250 for a month past "it's done" call). We arrived at same determination via different routes but know now that the 500 is trully "our" style bike. Happy Trails on her bro.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 01:45 PM   #30
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For me it was having the 250 in the shop so I became an exclusively 500 rider for a bit (I left the 250 for a month past "it's done" call). We arrived at same determination via different routes but know now that the 500 is trully "our" style bike. Happy Trails on her bro.
Thanks man. I really love this bike. Still eventually want something with a little more power.. and honestly, fuel injection :P
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Old January 18th, 2012, 08:04 AM   #31
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I just have to chime in with, I love shifting....makes my commute less boring. Otherwise I'd just take my boring automatic car. What I love about 250s is that I can easily redline most of the gears, and actually use all of them instead of having a bike where I can't even use most of my gears unless I want to be speeding. I just find shifting to be easy, fun, and give me more control over my ride. I rode a ZX-14, and I found the total lack of shifting boring as hell and the excessive speed a bit too much for my taste, going fast in a straight is great and all, but it just doesn't do it for me....yay second gear, and I'm already over the limit..
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:20 AM   #32
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I would strongly advise against a standard super sport 600 if you're going for useable power. I've had lots of past bikes, and ridden quite a few.

Low end grunt, with screaming top end: My ZX-10r.

My 250: No power anywhere, but still very fun to ride.

A 600: 250 power (Below 10k RPMs), with nitrous power once you get past 10k RPMs. The illusion of power is a lot greater, because it's so weak on the low end that the high end feels intense. Very impractical power band for modest city/back road cruising. You got to keep them singing to keep the power on tap.

Sounds to me like a v-twin would be more up your alley. Check out the Honda SuperHawk. Cheap bike, very, very fun to ride. Logged about 20k miles on mine, all up and down the East Coast.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:45 AM   #33
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I would strongly advise against a standard super sport 600 if you're going for useable power. I've had lots of past bikes, and ridden quite a few.

Low end grunt, with screaming top end: My ZX-10r.

My 250: No power anywhere, but still very fun to ride.

A 600: 250 power (Below 10k RPMs), with nitrous power once you get past 10k RPMs. The illusion of power is a lot greater, because it's so weak on the low end that the high end feels intense. Very impractical power band for modest city/back road cruising. You got to keep them singing to keep the power on tap.

Sounds to me like a v-twin would be more up your alley. Check out the Honda SuperHawk. Cheap bike, very, very fun to ride. Logged about 20k miles on mine, all up and down the East Coast.
This may seem like an attack. It is not. But I always see people say 600s have no low end power. But then I see a dyno chart of one and it looks like they make more power at 5K rpms than the 250 does at peak power! So how does that mean they have no low end power? I understand that they triple their power numbers from down low to the top end, but still… seems to me that they have sufficient power down low with boner-rific power up top.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 12:41 PM   #34
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Old January 18th, 2012, 04:19 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by THE BIG SITT View Post
This may seem like an attack. It is not. But I always see people say 600s have no low end power. But then I see a dyno chart of one and it looks like they make more power at 5K rpms than the 250 does at peak power! So how does that mean they have no low end power? I understand that they triple their power numbers from down low to the top end, but still… seems to me that they have sufficient power down low with boner-rific power up top.
That's because you're accustomed to a bike that maxes at under 30 hp stock. When the peak power of a bike is at 110 or so and comes on in a giant tunnel vision inducing rush, that low end seems really tame trust me.

A 600 is a relatively mild mannered tame machine down low, and if it weren't for the seating position, they would be great around town if kept below about 6k. But once you get used to that top end, anything below 6k seems completely gutless. RPM's are an SS's best friend.

It's all relative
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Old January 18th, 2012, 10:28 PM   #36
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Old January 27th, 2012, 05:49 PM   #37
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First and foremost I think what I really need is a billion dollars so I can buy every bike ever.

More realistically, a 600 is like my 500... doubled. Nice tame little bike if kept under 6k, then the power hits at 7k, but it doesn't HIT like a 600 would. I recall seeing a dyno chart of a gsxr 600 vs the ninja 500 and the idle-7k rpms was nearly identical, slightly more power on the gixxer, then at 7k both bikes started to make their power, but the 500 topped out at 50hp at 9k, vs the gsxr hitting ~100 at probably 11k. That doesn't account for torque, which I'm sure the 600 would produce more of at any given rpm, but thats really what I want. I love my bike to death but its depressing being able to rush up to 80mph like a bat out of hell then start to lose pull to 100 and then past 105-110 its just dead, it took FOREVER at WOT in 6th gear to hit 120. The good thing is it keeps me somewhat in line lol, and honestly is more power than I'll ever need and I don't have some sort of high speed need where 120 just isn't fast enough but still.. Also most 600s have a much larger aftermarket and are better looking. AHHH I DONT KNOW WHAT I WANT!!! Definitely want to stay in the sport bike category though, and I have plenty of time to think about my next bike, and test out what I like. Also for the record, the R6 is the only 600 I find extremely uncomfortable, though I've never ridden any so I don't know how that would be
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