DIY - Carburetor Sync'ing!

[g21-30]

Originally Posted by HKr1

I also went with something different.

http://www.carbtune.com/

Thanks Kerry. I ordered the 2 cylinder version yesterday with the storage pouch!

[wyckedflesh]

The reason that a lot of top teams do carb "synching" at high RPM on the dyno is to look for vacuum leaks. A very stong motor that isn't pulling a leak at low RPM can cause a high RPM leak that can cause a single cylinder to lean out under extended WOT (high banks of Daytona anyone?). That can lead to a catastrophic failure.

[g21-30]

I did the "kleen air system removal" over the weekend and reused the vacated vacuum fitting to hook up one carb sync hose (ala kkim). I then cut and inserted a new "T" in the other carb vacuum line. Warmed up the bike and hooked up the Carbtune. Voila, the carbs were already within spec! I did manage to get them a little closer.

[Soujyu]

I'm throwing a bit of a curveball here, but if you didn't want to rig the extra tees, where would you hook up the synchronizer rig?

The service manual is virtually worthless.... it still talks about a center stand!

[kkim]

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...carburetors%3F

[Soujyu]

Originally Posted by kkim

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...carburetors%3F

Oops, I should have thought of going there.

[CThunder-blue]

could this be done with some vacuum gauges?

[g21-30]

Yes, but the gauges might need "restricters" in-line, in order to differentiate changes. See the carbtune website:

http://www.carbtune.com/

[CThunder-blue]

so how much avg vac do these carbs pull? So I could just get something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Equus-3620-Vac...8288600&sr=8-1 and use a pressure snubber right? heck, I could probably just use the Y fitting off my defi boost gauge that has a snubber on it already.

[VeX]

Yes that'll work fine. Personally for syncing I prefer vacuum gauges. There are companies that sell 4 gauge units specifically for syncing (although you'd only need to use 2 at any given time). Normally you're looking at the high teens for vacuum, the main thing to look for in vacuum gauges is how accurate they are. No need for a wide sweep when you're mainly focused on getting the cylinders within a fraction of an inch of vacuum from one another

[CThunder-blue]

Sounds good. What I can do is hook the 2 new gauges to my car and read see if there's any differences between what my boost/vac gauge reads and these manual ones. Then I'll know if I need to use any correction on either gauge.

[JMcDonald]

Is it possible to do this with the carbs out of the bike? Like, using calipers to measure opening or whatever? Or are the differences too fine to visually see?


And all we are doing is adjusting how far the main butterflies open relative to each other, correct?

[WindMeUp]

I have used a Carb Stix for over 30 years (pro/hobby), the graduations are roughly 0.80in/2cm apart. I'm not saying the Carb Tune doesn't work, it just looks like it wouldn't be as accurate?

EDIT:
http://www.carbtune.co.uk/inst.html
"The manometer must be used vertically for a scale starting at 8cmHg (centimetres of mercury. 1 inch=2.5cm 1cm=0.4inches)"

"The full width scale lines on the gauge are 2cmHg apart and most factories specify the total difference between the lowest and highest readings should be 2cmHg."

So if I'm getting this correctly, the lines roughly represent the same graduation between the Carb Stix and the Morgan...WOW my guage is 22in/55.88cm tall. So the little window on the Carb Tune represents roughly the 22in/55.88cm on the Carb Stix. To make it as accurate as a Carb Stix the Carb Tune would have to be as big as the Ninja itself.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, have I missed something or am I looking at it the wrong way?

[setasai]

Reviving an old thread. Is there a particular place to get those 4 way TEEs. I've been to autozone, kragen, Orchard Supply Hardware and ACE hardware. They only had 3 way TEEs and not even in that many sizes. Where have you all been finding it or did you make your own 3 way?

[kkim]

Brian,

I found my 4 way at a local NAPA autoparts store in the section that they have all the vacuum tubing. If you can only find 3 ways, use them and just split it off to make a 4 way splitter.

[VeX]

Also if you've pulled your vapor canister (Cali bikes) then you don't need a 4-way valve. So if push comes to shove you can just yank that.

[kkim]

TJ!!!!

[VeX]

Kelly! You didn't expect to see me pop in here so quickly eh?

[kkim]

yep... good to see you slumming for a change.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by kkim

Brian,

I found my 4 way at a local NAPA autoparts store in the section that they have all the vacuum tubing. If you can only find 3 ways, use them and just split it off to make a 4 way splitter.

Yea, just checking to see if there was a place that's sure to have it. I always like to go with less parts if possible.

Originally Posted by VeX

Also if you've pulled your vapor canister (Cali bikes) then you don't need a 4-way valve. So if push comes to shove you can just yank that.

Vapor canister? I've been reading this forum for 2years and I feel like 80%+ of the bike is still foreign to me, mechanically that is.

[Cuongism]

If you have 3 tubes coming out the left of your gas tank, it's a Cali bike with a vapor emissions doodad. Two of the tubes (2nd and 3rd tube which are marked blue and red) connect to the vapor canister which is inside your left fairing. I just capped off the two tubes and tossed all that junk (picture is of Kevin's bike though). I don't remember a 4way tee though.

[VeX]

For the '08+ the canister looks like this:


Since the question was about the 4-way tee, then you must have a Cali bike (that and I gathered that from the San Jose location you're in Cali ). If you don't want to fiddle with that right now you can just use two 3-way tees inline though to get the same effect as one 4-way tee like kkim mentioned.

[setasai]

Ohhh that's what that stupid looking box was. I was wondering what that thing does. I was thinking... its not the horn and the airbox is in back... Thanks for the clarification. I'm assuming there is a thread on it's purpose and consequences for removal. Will have to do a quick search and read up some more.

[setasai]

Just wanted to update: Found the 4-way at Napa autoparts. Apparently they had to order it because they dont keep it in-stock very often as well. As for the tubing, I found that the vinyl tubing from OSH was slightly softer and fit much better. The rig worked perfectly and my carbs were only slightly out of sync. The offset screwdriver was godly but I needed to use a much much longer bit to get to it because the shorter ones caused the head of the screwdriver to push on the tubing and changed the rpms.

How much out of sync is considered to have an effect? I'm about to take it out for a spin but it was so close that I didnt need to turn the screw much at all.

[CZroe]

So, the guide in the OP is for Cali models, I take it?

[abhijitz]

I had a question ... seems like i got it but need clarification.

I took out all the emission crap and now i am left with the hose in a "T" , one side connects to vacuum inlet on tank, one side connects to left carb (looking towards the front of bike) and one side is blank. So, i can cap this off and use this end with a hose for one end of the carb sync bottle, Am i correct?

For the right carb (looking towards the front of the bike), i split the hose that goes from the right carb to the left carb (routing like a U) and then insert a "T" connector and use the free end of this "T" to connect the other end of the carb sync bottle.

Ohh - what is the thicker hose sticking out of the middle of the carb? (going nowhere). I guess it would be a overflow hose if carb gets filled or something?

[kawi]

abhijitz - I have the same exact question. Im pretty sure that you are correct. I am going to post a pic of my carb. I have 2 circles of where I think the 2 hoses for the DIY sync tool should go. I hoping to get clarification myself.

[robmilchling]

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

Is it possible to do this with the carbs out of the bike? Like, using calipers to measure opening or whatever? Or are the differences too fine to visually see?


And all we are doing is adjusting how far the main butterflies open relative to each other, correct?

Even though this is an older comment, I wanted to address this. You can use a very small feeler gauge to get the carbs somewhat close to synced off of the bike, useful if you're rebuilding the carbs, but the only way to accurately do them is with a vacuum gauge.

Originally Posted by kawi

abhijitz - I have the same exact question. Im pretty sure that you are correct. I am going to post a pic of my carb. I have 2 circles of where I think the 2 hoses for the DIY sync tool should go. I hoping to get clarification myself.

Those are the correct locations.

I may have to try this set up later this season on the ninja, I found syncing the carbs of my old suzuki, all four of them, to be an awful experience. Just imagine trying to sync one of these hahah

[kawi]

You are going to have fun with that project! lol Hoping mine goes alright. Thanks for the reply

[GlassAnkles]

i had a motion pro carb sync pro for awhile. tested out on my 4cy VFR, and it sucks big ones. Sold it cheap and picked up the "Harmonizer" a guy makes and sells these on the ADVrider forum, its amazing. just did the 250r a few days ago and it was precise and quick. For $119 shipped you cant beat it.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=701625

[setasai]

I have this http://www.carbtune.com/. Works perfectly and doesnt require batteries.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by GlassAnkles

For $119 shipped you cant beat it.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=701625

Beat it.

Two bottle method. Less than $10, and you get refreshment from the beverages that you purchased for their bottles.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Beat it.

Two bottle method. Less than $10, and you get refreshment from the beverages that you purchased for their bottles.

I tried that. It works but I found it trickier to get perfect. Like the fluid kept bouncing around back and forth. I suppose if you put dampeners on it like the carbtune does, it'd work better.

[choneofakind]

I've never had that problem. Mine is nice and smooth. Is it possible you had a leak or something? When you get the water levels to stay consistent, the carbs are usually pretty well synced. works for me.

[setasai]

Dunno. It worked fine with the Carbtune. It's possible the stoppers werent perfectly sealed I suppose. I did give up pretty quick after a few syncs that took too long.

[kawi]

Quick tip for anyone that want so straighten out the clear hose. Boil it in water for about 5 to 10 minutes and then take it out with a tongs and lay out towels on the kitchen floor. Roll the hose up in the towel to keep it straight while it cools. I bought my hose off a roll and had a hell of a time straightening it until I Googled how to straighten clear hose lol. Hope this helps some people

[choneofakind]

I ended up doing that to some of mine quite by accident actually. I just ran really really hot water through it to try and clean it out, and hung it to let it dry, and it's all straight now much more useful this way.

[kawi]

So I just tried this and it was an Epic Fail for me. My carbs seemed to be very out of sync and in a matter of seconds it went from one bottle to the next and craziness happened and ended up sucking a lil in the carb. Boy does vegetable oil stink when it burns. Needles to say, I will be purchasing the Motion Pro Syncpro. Here is the link http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...tor-Tuner.aspx

[MikeBudd]

Originally Posted by kawi

So I just tried this and it was an Epic Fail for me. My carbs seemed to be very out of sync and in a matter of seconds it went from one bottle to the next and craziness happened and ended up sucking a lil in the carb. Boy does vegetable oil stink when it burns. Needles to say, I will be purchasing the Motion Pro Syncpro. Here is the link http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...tor-Tuner.aspx

If you fill the bottles up properly (i.e.: only 1/3 full and checking to make sure the hose to the carb is above 2/3 full) it is impossible for this to happen. It shouldn't have any negative effect on your bike (just incase you were wondering).

Personally I wouldn't waste 100 dollars on it, but some have and they do work great. My two bottle carb sync works pretty well, and cost like 10 bucks.

[kawi]

I only had the bottles 1/3 full. After I adjusted the screw the fluid started bubbling in the bottle and I think thats how the other hose going to the carb sucked some up. I might try it again and see what happens...Do you think perhaps Im turning the screw too fast and its causing the fluid to bubble like crazy? This all happened so fast, i shut the bike off right away but I wasnt quick enough. Am I doing it wrong?