Half gears around 3rd and 4th upshifting?

[Falcor]

Over the past month I've noticed that when shifting into 3rd or 4th with a COMPLETE push on the gear shifter and COMPLETE pull on the clutch I get what seems to me like a half gear?

It seems to get halfway into the gear because some power is still making it to the tires but the revving is double what it should be almost like it's false neutral but not completely.

I'm not really sure how else to describe it.

Anything I should look over specifically to see what might be causing this?

[subxero]

I did that for the first time the other day was like WTF!? Not sure what happened, it happened to me on a down shift it was bizarre

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by subxero

I did that for the first time the other day was like WTF!? Not sure what happened, it happened to me on a down shift it was bizarre

Luckily I'm not getting it downshifting, that would be very startling. Just upshifts on my end.

[alex.s]

one of two things happened, either your transmission forks are barely in their grooves and you are lucky your transmission hasn't exploded (highly unlikely) or, simply, you did not complete the shift and the drum rotated into another gear.

causes for not completing a shift can vary quite a lot. you say it only happens going up into 3 and 4 which says to me that you are probably using a lot of clutch and not using enough throttle release. if you do not disengage the gears, the dogs will not properly sit in their trenches in the next gear...they will slide in slowly and they wont "lock in", which means with enough engine force or luck, they simply fall out into whatever gear was next to them. you should not have to push hard on the shift lever. but quick is important. using the clutch is fine to disengage the trans from the engine, but when moving up in gears it is important that the center trans gears are moving slower than the outer trans gears. if they're moving too slow (clutch in too long) then the center gears can slow down and it will grind going into gear. this problem is what double clutching in a car fixes. since we have no easy access to neutral to double clutch the center gears, we just have to be quick about it. (or don't use clutch.)


use more throttle release when changing gears.

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by alex.s

one of two things happened, either your transmission forks are barely in their grooves and you are lucky your transmission hasn't exploded (highly unlikely) or, simply, you did not complete the shift and the drum rotated into another gear.

causes for not completeing a shift can vary quite a lot. you say it only happens going up into 3 and 4 which says to me that you are probably using a lot of clutch and not using enough throttle release. if you do not disengage the gears, the dogs will not properly sit in their trenches... they wont "lock in", which means with enough engine force or luck, they simply fall out into whatever gear was next to them.


use more throttle release when changing gears.

That actually sounds pretty logical. I'll monitor my throttle release to see if there is a connection. It just seems so odd to me that after 16,000 miles of riding that all of the sudden it starts happening and not during the first few thousand. I guess habits do change over time though.

[alex.s]

people get comfortable. people get lazy.

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by alex.s

people get comfortable. people get lazy.

True, but I'm always so deliberate and firm with my shifting. At least to me

[Falcor]

So i tried to make sure I was using more throttle release when changing gears which I already doing apparently when I was trying to see if there was a difference between what I was doing and what was suggested.

I noticed though that when deliberately making sure the throttle is off during the upshift a few times it actually happened MORE often. I'm confused now :/

[alex.s]

let off faster. gears should move in the brief moment between the dog pushing on one side of the gear, and the dog sliding to the other side of the gear. this is a very small moment. which is why people like me find it easier to simply not use the clutch.

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by alex.s

let off faster. gears should move in the brief moment between the dog pushing on one side of the gear, and the dog sliding to the other side of the gear. this is a very small moment. which is why people like me find it easier to simply not use the clutch.

My normal shifting is very quick with quick roll off with a lot of it so it should just work. Maybe she just needs a good spanking or I should ride around clutchless upshifting for a while to see if it still happens.

[alex.s]

maybe your shift forks are bent. or your shift lever is improperly adjusted.

[Falcor]

I'll double check the lever, haven't adjusted it since I put it where I liked it many months ago and it's been feeling fine. How would one check their shift forks?

[alex.s]

you check for bent shift forks by disassembling the entire engine, removing the shift forks, and checking them on a true surface.

[Falcor]

Awesome.... So basically my best bet if I don't have the preferred tools and area to do this and it's the only thing left to check would be to have it looked over by a dealer/shop huh?

Also, my bike came with a extended Kawasaki warranty. Would shift forks fall under the list of covered parts?

[Joshorilla]

Congratulations! You have found the hidden mystery gear! Unlock two more Ninja secrets for 600 like performance!

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

Congratulations! You have found the hidden mystery gear! Unlock two more Ninja secrets for 600 like performance!

If only it was that easy

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Falcor

Awesome.... So basically my best bet if I don't have the preferred tools and area to do this and it's the only thing left to check would be to have it looked over by a dealer/shop huh?

Also, my bike came with a extended Kawasaki warranty. Would shift forks fall under the list of covered parts?

i am 99% sure it is user error.

try keeping the shift lever pressed all the way down at the bottom of the stroke for a few seconds after it goes in gear. ... as in, about to shift.... throttle off, shift lever all the way up and keep it there, throttle back on, wait.... wait.... wait... is it still engaged? let the shift lever off.

[Falcor]

So clutch in, throttle off, shift up (and hold it up), clutch out, throttle on, release shift pedal after keeping it held up with throttle back on for a second or two?

[JAG]

I had this problem and I added more engine
Oil till it shifted good. Revving the engine between gears not good. I've had it
Go back into gear with a thud. If the brake is dragging causes bad shifting . Other things with my bike
I've noticed the original oem air filter doesn't
Let enough air through. New spark plugs and tightened down to
Correct torque. Idled the engine for 10 minutes after( not sure if this does anything or not)
I noticed a well tuned engine shifts better. seems The clutch cable needs to have
Play as stated in manual

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Falcor

..........It seems to get halfway into the gear because some power is still making it to the tires but the revving is double what it should be almost like it's false neutral but not completely.......

It sounds that your clutch is slipping.
The clutch is the only flexible link in the engine-tire chain of transmission.

I would lubricate the whole clutch external mechanism, verifying that there is some slack in the lever entering the clutch cover.
If due, an oil change may help.

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by Motofool

I would lubricate the whole clutch external mechanism

By that you mean the cable and where the cable meets the engine near where you adjust the slack? Is there a type of lube I should use or would my chain lube work just as good?

[Motofool]

For pivot of the hand lever, pivot of the cable head in that lever and pivots of the lower lever, use moly grease (molybdenum disulfide).

For the cable interiors, use light oil or specific cable lubricant.

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by Motofool

For pivot of the hand lever, pivot of the cable head in that lever and pivots of the lower lever, use moly grease (molybdenum disulfide).

For the cable interiors, use light oil or specific cable lubricant.

Okay thanks, I'll try all of the suggestions from this thread over the next couple days and report back with what happens.

[quarterliter]

It sounds like clutch slippage maybe due to bad adjustment or worn out parts.

[Falcor]

Okay, so the past 3 days I have found the following

Day 1 morning - 1 slip
day 1 afternoon - no slip

day 2 morning - no slip
day 2 afternoon - no slip

day 3 morning - 2 slips

I ride with a mixture of normal and fast acceleration with day 2 having lots of heavy acceleration and shifting. My shifting technique was the same on all days except for day 3 morning which was today when I was accelerating hard I was trying to emphasize on shutting throttle off when shifting up to test it and it seemed to cause the slipping versus my normal quick throttle off and on during shifting.

This weekend I'll take the time to really look things over in the daylight and try to get as close to perfect as I can with adjusting the clutch cable length. I'll check my oil's health as well, you never know.

I wish my results were more consistent.

[Falcor]

Haven't had any issues since adjusting the clutch to EXACTLY the correct slack. I also replaced my chain and sprockets a couple days ago and everything seems fine and feels great now!

I'm pretty sure the clutch slack was the main issue.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Falcor

Haven't had any issues since adjusting the clutch to EXACTLY the correct slack..........
I'm pretty sure the clutch slack was the main issue.

Did you lubricate everything as well?

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Did you lubricate everything as well?

Haven't had the time or money to go get any of it. I got payed yesterday so I might be able to order some online, have any recommendations?

I don't mind having to readjust it in order to lube it.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Falcor

Haven't had the time or money to go get any of it. I got payed yesterday so I might be able to order some online, have any recommendations?

I don't mind having to readjust it in order to lube it.

I buy the grease at Pepboys; that is for the heads of the cable and the pivot of the lever (and for everything else in the bike).
For inside the cable, I use several drops of 3-in-1 oil (from Walmart).
The picture shows a special applicator and spray lubricant for cables.

Yes, you will need to turn the adjuster to the max slack, to remove the counter-nut and bolt of the pivot and then to pull the cable out of the support's guide.
There is danger of braking the clutch safety switch nob during re-assembly; so, be careful.