Clutch basket q's *searched*

[iceman.kcmo]

I have searched google, here, and other 250 forums. Is there a fix for the clutch basket knocking? A DIY, or homemade fix? I am going to be doing the clutch before spring hits and would like to fix that noise.

thanks,
Steve

[Alex]

Had you seen this one?

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What%27..._the_clutch%3F

It's not terribly detailed, but I think it may cover what you're looking for.

[iceman.kcmo]

thats it, but it doesn't say how to fix. and im not spending $400 on the part. thats half the cash i have in the bike right now.

[greg737]

and im not spending $400 on the part

Well then, there's two ways you could go here. You could either find someone with a "parts bike" to source the part on the cheap.... or throw in the towel and turn your bike into a "parts bike"

[HKr1]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ninja...Q5fAccessories

^ one for a dollar.

Still be intersting to see if the 08+ would fit/work.

[iceman.kcmo]

The knocking isnt to the point i have to stop riding it, I just would like to have it fixed. I would like to try the 08+. I will search for one.

[JCCJMM_]

I've heard it is alot of work to fix. And some bikes have noisier baskets than others....even the really loud ones have not been known to fail.

[null0]

I went through this with my mechanic. The basket is heat pressed so there's no way to take it apart and replace the bumpers. What's worse than the noise is people coming up and telling me my valves or CCT needs adjusting.

The problem with buying baskets on Ebay is that some sellers won't tell you the truth. You can identify the problem by trying to turn the big gear on the back, if it moves easily the bumpers are shot.

[randomwalk101]

Loud clutch saves lives!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

[iceman.kcmo]

well, I have a Press, and a propane torch. Maybe i can work something out.

[amjhstn]

My clutch was banging pretty good, so I decided to tear it apart and find out why. The dealer parts department said they would sell me a new one for $300.00 but, after dissassembling the old one, I thought I would give it a shot at repairing the old one. I ordered some parts for it from McMaster-Carr and I thought I could do the whole job for about $35.00.

Here is a link to a short video of the sloppy clutch basket:
01Basket PlayBefore.MOV

In this photo the oil pump drive gear removed. It was pressed onto the primary drive gear and needed to be removed to gain access to the rivet heads.
02Gear Removed.jpg

This photo shows where I drilled the rivet heads off.
03Rivets Drilled.jpg

In this photo the retainer plate has been removed and you can see the damaged dampers.
04Plate Removed.jpg

There appears to be two types of dampers in play here. Two low torque dampers and four higher torque dampers. The two dampers that disintegrated were a type of cellular donut, fit around a circular boss, and were probably for low torque damping. It appears that Kawasaki engineers used two softer dampers and four firmer dampers in an attempt to provide a progressive damping effect relative to the torque applied to the primary drive delivered by the pulses of the inline twin engine from idle through full throttle acceleration.
What the low torque dampers were supposed to do is absorb the first 10 to 15 lb/ft of torque load energy by compressing. This would take up the gap we see between the holes in the primary drive gear and the oval solid dampers. Loads above this 10-15 lb/ft would then transfer to the solid dampers which would then continue to compress until the load subsided, then all of the dampers would decompress giving their stored energy back to the system. The transmission likes to see this relatively flat energy profile.
After examining the dampers I have come to think the sulfates in the oil along with heat, hardened the rubber. The solid dampers probably have the same geometry that they originally had when new with some surface hardening.
The original low torque dampers had much thinner sections and hardened all the way through. This caused them to become brittle, much like a hard plastic, and they disintegrated under the load rather than absorb it. The other four solid dampers simply hardened a little on the surface and didn't affect their intended performance much. With the low torque dampers destroyed, the primary drive energy was not absorbed until the gear hit the solid dampers. Hence the banging. The transmission does NOT like this energy profile. That's why we are fixing it.
Because the failure mode of all of the dampers was a hardening of the rubber due to heat and chemical contamination from the engine oil it was important to select a replacement material that is both heat and chemical resistant (like Viton or Silicone) so they do not suffer the same fate as the original dampers. I chose Military Grade silicone rubber certified to MIL Spec ZZR 765 Class 2a for its heat and chemical resistance. Mcmaster-Carr had a 6 inch length of 60A durometer X 1 1/4 diameter which fit perfectly in the holes in the primary drive gear PN 5546T15 $5.89.
For the low torque dampers, I started by cutting two pieces from the ZZR-765 tube 1/2 inch thick to match the thickness of the primary drive gear, then core drilled 9/16 inch holes for the fit around the bosses, and core drilled six 1/4 inch relief holes around the center hole to calibrate the spring rate.

09Bushing Material.jpg

My strategy is to restore the low torque dampers and leave the original high torque dampers as they are for now. I can do some testing when we get rideable weather in the spring (I live in Michigan). I may replace the four high torque dampers if testing shows they need it.

The six rivets that held the retainer plate on were about .200 diameter, so I replaced them with 10-32 screws. I drilled and tapped the holes for 10-32 X 1.5dia locking helicoil inserts from the inside of the basket, and reattached the retainer plate with 3/4 long 10-32 hex head screws from the plate side through the bosses and into the inserts. This will allow the basket to be disassembled easily should the rubber inserts need to be replaced in the future.


The top photo shows the rivets pressed out and the existing holes ready for tapping.
05RivetsPressed.jpg

Inserts installed
06Inserts Installed.jpg

Bolts selected and shown partially threaded into the new inserts. The heads will have be faced off on the lathe to .05" thickness to match the rivet head thickness and provide proper clearance for the oil pump drive gear.
08WithANBolt.jpg

Ready to reattach the retainer plate.
10Bushings installed.jpg

The top and center pictures show the retainer plate reinstalled with the 10-32 hardware torqued to 31 lb/in with bolt heads thinned to .05" thick to match the thickness of the old rivet heads.
All I have to do now is press the oil pump drive gear back on.
11AssembledSansGear.jpg
12AssembledInside.jpg

Ready to install.
13AssembledWithGear.jpg

The excess play is gone as the video shows below.
The movement you can see is compressing the low torque dampers.
14Basket PlayAfter.MOV

After installing the basket, I torqued the retaining nut to 98 lb/ft and the pressure plate spring bolts to 78 lb/in,
installed the clutch cover with a new gasket, I started her up and the banging is gone.
I won't be able to road test till spring (Michigan), I'll give a better update then.

Total Cost:
McMaster-Carr parts: (http://www.mcmaster.com)

Line...Quantity....Product.......Description.................................... ...................price
1..........1..........5546T15......Extreme-Temperature Silicone Rubber Tube,...........$5.89
........................................1/4" ID, 1-1/4" OD, 6" Length
2..........1..........91720A831 316 Stainless Steel Hex Head Machine Screw..........$5.67
........................................10-32 Thread, 3/4" Length, packs of 10
3..........1..........90296A202 18-8 SS Screw-Lock Helical Insert 10-32 Internal....$6.62
........................................Thread, .285" Length, MS21209, packs of 10
................................................................................ ..................Shipping..$5.99

Dealer parts
Line...Quantity....Product.......Description.................................... ....................price
1..........1..........11009-1872..GASKET,CLUTCH COVER....................................$14.67

................................................................................ ..................Total.....$38.84

[Alex]

Nice!