HELP HELP HELP!!!! I need someone to do me a favor

garth285 · January 14th, 2015, 07:17 PM

I am in desperate need of help guys, can anyone on here that owns a ninja 300 help me find something out????

I need to find out if you dont have a speed sensor hooked up to the bike if it will throw the bike into limp mode and not rev out to the 13,000 stock rpm limiter?

I had my turbo 250 on the dyno tonight and I am hitting a early rev limiter at around 10,000rpm

PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!

alex.s · January 14th, 2015, 07:20 PM

i can't help you with your question but maybe the tach was wrong and it was actually redlining at 13k?

garth285 · January 14th, 2015, 07:26 PM

The data logger and the dyno both said the same rpm's :-(

on a good note the bike made 50hp and 28ft lbs!

Somchai · January 14th, 2015, 07:40 PM

As the first

C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S

for hitting the 50 hp

And as the second, please remind I also don't have a 300, but I would like to ask if you'd already remap your ecu?
To understand my question: It is important to care about the exact difference in maps from cylinder 1 to cylinder 2 and don't ask me how I know.
If that's not the case, do you have the 300 manual? If, please refer to the EFI-Section, maybe there's any help to find.
But also if you'd remap, change all back to factory setting and test for the rev-limit.
Sorry from far away not being a big help.
Good luck.

alex.s · January 14th, 2015, 07:42 PM

50hp!!! my goodness!

garth285 · January 14th, 2015, 07:46 PM

Thanks bud!!!!! Well yeah I checked the manual and it says if the speed sensor isnt there just sets the speedometer to read 0mph and it will set the ECU to top gear.

All gears and neutral are set to 13,000rpm

The manual may only say set to top gear but there may be a rev limiter in there somewhere.

I really need someone that has a 300 to disconnect their speedometer cable and ride the bike and see if it goes to the same RPM.

This is sorta the only thing I can think of that I have disconnected.

I even made the plug gaps smaller, tried a ton of things on the dyno from adding fuel taking fuel away and nothing worked :-(

garth285 · January 14th, 2015, 07:46 PM

I posted this in my turbo250 build page but heres the dyno sheet from tonight

alex.s · January 14th, 2015, 08:05 PM

do you have a fuel pressure reading? is it possible past a certain rpm it isn't able to supply enough fuel? spitballing. seems like a redline is pretty obvious so im probably off

garth285 · January 14th, 2015, 08:15 PM

yeah i have a fuel pressure gauge on the bike and its good, I have a base setting of 44psi and then a 1:1 regulator so for ever psi of boost it will add a psi of fuel pressure. Standard turbo setup.

Somchai · January 14th, 2015, 08:19 PM

Shawn three things come to my mind: IAP, TPS and Subthrottle-Sensor

garth285 · January 14th, 2015, 08:21 PM

IAP - I have a T with a check valve going to this sensor, so it will see vacuum but all boost will be bypassed.

TPS - ECU and data logger is seeing 0-100% throttle perfectly

Sub throttle - The plates are removed but the actuator is all in place.

JohnnyBravo · January 15th, 2015, 09:01 AM

Congrats on 50!!!

You want me to unplug what from where and do huh?

garth285 · January 15th, 2015, 09:18 AM

Disconnect the speedometer sensor. It's down by the front sprocket cover. It's a black 3 wire plug. I need someone to disconnect that and see if The bike will rev to the rev limiter or only go to about 10'000rpm

Help help help lol....

garth285 · January 16th, 2015, 12:59 PM

Well F me sideways..... I had a buddy of mine who lives down south here disconnect his speed sensor and run the bike and it revs all the way out.

I am thinking two things....

1. my fuel pump is possibly drawing to much power and causing the ECU to fault
2. the ninja 250 pickup coil for the crank position sensor is not able to send a good enough signal to the ECU.

So I'm going to start trouble shooting the bike this weekend I guess :-(

Racer x · January 16th, 2015, 01:03 PM

If all checks out. See if there is interference from EMF off the charging system.

alex.s · January 16th, 2015, 01:30 PM

this is pretty out there, but is it possible with the added air pressure in the chamber, at the higher rpms the coil field isn't large enough to produce a reliable spark? seems unlikely since its a solid 10k rpm redline.

alex.s · January 16th, 2015, 01:31 PM

i really don't know much about turbos but is it possible to open up a bleed valve after the turbo like on an old turbine engine and see if slightly less pressure going in changes where it tops out? if less pressure changes nothing i think it would rule out a very large number of potential issues

garth285 · January 16th, 2015, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

this is pretty out there, but is it possible with the added air pressure in the chamber, at the higher rpms the coil field isn't large enough to produce a reliable spark? seems unlikely since its a solid 10k rpm redline.

I thought about that, most guys with turbos will just decrease the plug gap, I did that and no change :-(

garth285 · January 16th, 2015, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

i really don't know much about turbos but is it possible to open up a bleed valve after the turbo like on an old turbine engine and see if slightly less pressure going in changes where it tops out? if less pressure changes nothing i think it would rule out a very large number of potential issues

I was thinking about throwing in the stock mapping, remove the charge pipe and put in pump gas to see if it will rev out.

hmmmm

jkv45 · January 16th, 2015, 08:15 PM

What fuel are you running now?

garth285 · January 16th, 2015, 08:18 PM

E85 set to base pressure of 44psi and running a 1:1 regulator so at fuel wastegate boost of 12psi its running 56psi of fuel pressure.

I may have a idea of a possible issue, the ninja 250 crank sensor specs in the manual say 100-150ohm and a peak of 3.2V The ninja 300 crank sesnor says 180-280ohm and 4.5V This may be holding me back. I just spoke to a local friend and I might be able to try out their stator to see if this helps.

jkv45 · January 16th, 2015, 08:27 PM

Are you running a colder plug?

Can you adjust the ignition timing?

What's the compression ratio?

garth285 · January 16th, 2015, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkv45

Are you running a colder plug?

Can you adjust the ignition timing?

Yep went from the stock 8 to a 9 which when I pulled the plugs on the dyno it looked almost perfect so I think the plugs are good.

The timing I have pulled down from the stock I think it was close to 34* down to 30*

Motofool · January 17th, 2015, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garth285

........... I had my turbo 250 on the dyno tonight and I am hitting a early rev limiter at around 10,000rpm

If it is only happening under load and WOT, it could be detonation or pre-ignition, due to the higher pressure/temperature at the end of the compression stroke.

Please, read this:
http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue...ineBasics.html

I would try higher octane fuel first.

garth285 · January 17th, 2015, 12:42 PM

I'm going to try to pull some timing back, E85 is 104 octane as well but does real well with boost. Going to try pulling a bit of timing and give it a go.

Racer x · January 17th, 2015, 03:19 PM

What are you doing for coils?

garth285 · January 17th, 2015, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer x

What are you doing for coils?

Ninja 300 coils which are also used for bigger bikes

Racer x · January 18th, 2015, 12:10 AM

Might need an upgrade there.

January 14th, 2015, 07:17 PM	#1
garth285 KAWASAKI GURU Name: Shawn Location: Florida Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863	HELP HELP HELP!!!! I need someone to do me a favor I am in desperate need of help guys, can anyone on here that owns a ninja 300 help me find something out???? I need to find out if you dont have a speed sensor hooked up to the bike if it will throw the bike into limp mode and not rev out to the 13,000 stock rpm limiter? I had my turbo 250 on the dyno tonight and I am hitting a early rev limiter at around 10,000rpm PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!

January 14th, 2015, 07:20 PM	#2
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	i can't help you with your question but maybe the tach was wrong and it was actually redlining at 13k? __________________________________________________

January 14th, 2015, 07:26 PM	#3
garth285 KAWASAKI GURU Name: Shawn Location: Florida Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863	The data logger and the dyno both said the same rpm's :-( on a good note the bike made 50hp and 28ft lbs!
	2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

January 14th, 2015, 07:42 PM	#5
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	50hp!!! my goodness! __________________________________________________

January 14th, 2015, 08:05 PM	#8
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	do you have a fuel pressure reading? is it possible past a certain rpm it isn't able to supply enough fuel? spitballing. seems like a redline is pretty obvious so im probably off __________________________________________________

January 14th, 2015, 07:40 PM	#4
Somchai Freedom for Germany Location: This World Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI Posts: A lot.	As the first C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S for hitting the 50 hp And as the second, please remind I also don't have a 300, but I would like to ask if you'd already remap your ecu? To understand my question: It is important to care about the exact difference in maps from cylinder 1 to cylinder 2 and don't ask me how I know. If that's not the case, do you have the 300 manual? If, please refer to the EFI-Section, maybe there's any help to find. But also if you'd remap, change all back to factory setting and test for the rev-limit. Sorry from far away not being a big help. Good luck.

January 14th, 2015, 07:46 PM	#6
garth285 KAWASAKI GURU Name: Shawn Location: Florida Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863	Thanks bud!!!!! Well yeah I checked the manual and it says if the speed sensor isnt there just sets the speedometer to read 0mph and it will set the ECU to top gear. All gears and neutral are set to 13,000rpm The manual may only say set to top gear but there may be a rev limiter in there somewhere. I really need someone that has a 300 to disconnect their speedometer cable and ride the bike and see if it goes to the same RPM. This is sorta the only thing I can think of that I have disconnected. I even made the plug gaps smaller, tried a ton of things on the dyno from adding fuel taking fuel away and nothing worked :-(

January 14th, 2015, 08:15 PM	#9
garth285 KAWASAKI GURU Name: Shawn Location: Florida Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863	yeah i have a fuel pressure gauge on the bike and its good, I have a base setting of 44psi and then a 1:1 regulator so for ever psi of boost it will add a psi of fuel pressure. Standard turbo setup.

January 14th, 2015, 08:19 PM	#10
Somchai Freedom for Germany Location: This World Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI Posts: A lot.	Shawn three things come to my mind: IAP, TPS and Subthrottle-Sensor

January 14th, 2015, 08:21 PM	#11
garth285 KAWASAKI GURU Name: Shawn Location: Florida Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863	IAP - I have a T with a check valve going to this sensor, so it will see vacuum but all boost will be bypassed. TPS - ECU and data logger is seeing 0-100% throttle perfectly Sub throttle - The plates are removed but the actuator is all in place.

January 15th, 2015, 09:01 AM	#12
JohnnyBravo Certifiable nontundrum Name: Harper Location: NC Milkshake stand Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much. MOTM - Sep '13, Sep '16	Congrats on 50!!! You want me to unplug what from where and do huh? __________________________________________________

January 15th, 2015, 09:18 AM	#13
garth285 KAWASAKI GURU Name: Shawn Location: Florida Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863	Disconnect the speedometer sensor. It's down by the front sprocket cover. It's a black 3 wire plug. I need someone to disconnect that and see if The bike will rev to the rev limiter or only go to about 10'000rpm Help help help lol....

January 16th, 2015, 12:59 PM	#14
garth285 KAWASAKI GURU Name: Shawn Location: Florida Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863	Well F me sideways..... I had a buddy of mine who lives down south here disconnect his speed sensor and run the bike and it revs all the way out. I am thinking two things.... 1. my fuel pump is possibly drawing to much power and causing the ECU to fault 2. the ninja 250 pickup coil for the crank position sensor is not able to send a good enough signal to the ECU. So I'm going to start trouble shooting the bike this weekend I guess :-(
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

January 16th, 2015, 01:03 PM	#15
Racer x ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Eric Location: Iowa City Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawmeracchi 350 2010 Project X Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 54 MOTM - Sep '18, Feb '16	If all checks out. See if there is interference from EMF off the charging system. __________________________________________________ Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja

January 16th, 2015, 01:30 PM	#16
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	this is pretty out there, but is it possible with the added air pressure in the chamber, at the higher rpms the coil field isn't large enough to produce a reliable spark? seems unlikely since its a solid 10k rpm redline. __________________________________________________

January 16th, 2015, 01:31 PM	#17
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	i really don't know much about turbos but is it possible to open up a bleed valve after the turbo like on an old turbine engine and see if slightly less pressure going in changes where it tops out? if less pressure changes nothing i think it would rule out a very large number of potential issues __________________________________________________

January 16th, 2015, 08:15 PM	#20
jkv45 Rev Limiter Name: Jay Location: WI Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16	What fuel are you running now?

January 16th, 2015, 08:18 PM	#21
garth285 KAWASAKI GURU Name: Shawn Location: Florida Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863	E85 set to base pressure of 44psi and running a 1:1 regulator so at fuel wastegate boost of 12psi its running 56psi of fuel pressure. I may have a idea of a possible issue, the ninja 250 crank sensor specs in the manual say 100-150ohm and a peak of 3.2V The ninja 300 crank sesnor says 180-280ohm and 4.5V This may be holding me back. I just spoke to a local friend and I might be able to try out their stator to see if this helps.
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

January 16th, 2015, 08:27 PM	#22
jkv45 Rev Limiter Name: Jay Location: WI Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16	Are you running a colder plug? Can you adjust the ignition timing? What's the compression ratio?

January 17th, 2015, 12:42 PM	#25
garth285 KAWASAKI GURU Name: Shawn Location: Florida Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863	I'm going to try to pull some timing back, E85 is 104 octane as well but does real well with boost. Going to try pulling a bit of timing and give it a go.

January 17th, 2015, 03:19 PM	#26
Racer x ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Eric Location: Iowa City Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawmeracchi 350 2010 Project X Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 54 MOTM - Sep '18, Feb '16	What are you doing for coils? __________________________________________________ Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja

January 18th, 2015, 12:10 AM	#28
Racer x ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Eric Location: Iowa City Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawmeracchi 350 2010 Project X Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 54 MOTM - Sep '18, Feb '16	Might need an upgrade there. __________________________________________________ Top speed 123.369mph. Ohio mile Worlds fastest 250 ninja

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