Is 300 still a great beginner bike?

[kcaja1]

I think we're all getting too excited about this new 300 and succumbing to the dark side of power. Let's not forget why the 250 is a great beginner bike. Is the Honda 250 now the best beginner bike due to its lesser power than the Ninja 300?
Sorry to rain on the parade.

'Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely'

[joshuajcrouch]

Yes it is still a good beginners big to learn on. The extra 50ccs really isn't going to make that much of a difference.

I personally don't think its a good idea to learn on a brand new bike though. There are plenty that will probably disagree.

[antiant]

Uh... great way to assume. You know what they say about that, at least I hope you do. There are other things besides the increase in hp that make the ninja300 attractive (or not) and frankly, it's all a matter of subjectivity. It's still not a 600cc bike, your power quote is out of context, so really, the point you are trying to make is what exactly?

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by kcaja1

I think we're all getting too excited about this new 300 and succumbing to the dark side of power. Let's not forget why the 250 is a great beginner bike. Is the Honda 250 now the best beginner bike due to its lesser power than the Ninja 300?
Sorry to rain on the parade.

'Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely'

Honestly I don't think the power jump is enough to worry about. It's not like it's gone from 26hp to 126hp... A seven bhp increase is not enough to get you into trouble while being enough to give you that extra oomph which wasn't there in the 250... Also, the new 300 also has a better torque/power curve, allowing better acceleration from lower revs. Just my 2 cents, I'm sure @Alex will have a better answer for you.

[Alex]

The reasons why it might not be a great 1st bike are simply because it's new and comparably expensive as a rider learns to keep a motorcycle off of its side. But the motorcycle's capabilities itself still make for a fantastic learning platform. Enough torque to make it just a little easier to take off from a stop, enough torque that bike still has some acceleration even if you're not in the optimal gear, yet not nearly enough torque to get the bike out of shape no matter what one does with the throttle. It's still just as light and easy steering, just as easy a gearbox, the lightest/easiest clutch in motorcycling, and it looks great. OK, the last one isn't a direct benefit, but because of it more people will buy them, so I guess it is.

[joshuajcrouch]

Originally Posted by antiant

Uh... great way to assume. You know what they say about that, at least I hope you do. There are other things besides the increase in hp that make the ninja300 attractive (or not) and frankly, it's all a matter of subjectivity. It's still not a 600cc bike, your power quote is out of context, so really, the point you are trying to make is what exactly?

Hmmm... is this directed at me? If so it seems like you may have taken something that I said waaaaay out of context. What assumptions am I making exactly?

[antiant]

Originally Posted by joshuajcrouch

Hmmm... is this directed at me? If so it seems like you may have taken something that I said waaaaay out of context. What assumptions am I making exactly?

Power assumptions. That may be some people's draw to it, but there are other features besides the hp that draw people to the 300. To generalize what people are drawn to is rather assumptive, as it could be the ABS, the looks, the color scheme, or a culmination of different things, hence subjective. People are drawn to the 300, it's still not a 600cc+ bike and it's still considered a beginner bike.

[kcaja1]

Originally Posted by antiant

Uh... great way to assume. You know what they say about that, at least I hope you do. There are other things besides the increase in hp that make the ninja300 attractive (or not) and frankly, it's all a matter of subjectivity. It's still not a 600cc bike, your power quote is out of context, so really, the point you are trying to make is what exactly?

Incremental increases in power through model progression make the original idea of 'less is more' die slowly.
The original Miata, 240Z, and AE86 years ago started with this idea but gained weight and power as the models progressed. The fun factor started to suffer with it. Car enthusiasts started to ask manufacturers to again build fun cars with less power and weight and it seems car companies are listening. Look at the new Scion FR-S, Subaru BRZ, upcoming 240Z, etc. They are selling very well.
My point is, is the Ninjette following this wrong path and deviating from its core advantage of 'just enough power to have fun'? What's next Ninja 350?

[kcaja1]

Originally Posted by psych0hans

Honestly I don't think the power jump is enough to worry about. It's not like it's gone from 26hp to 126hp... A seven bhp increase is not enough to get you into trouble while being enough to give you that extra oomph which wasn't there in the 250... Also, the new 300 also has a better torque/power curve, allowing better acceleration from lower revs. Just my 2 cents, I'm sure @Alex will have a better answer for you.

When is enough enough for a good beginner's bike?

[joshuajcrouch]

Originally Posted by antiant

Power assumptions. That may be some people's draw to it, but there are other features besides the hp that draw people to the 300. To generalize what people are drawn to is rather assumptive, as it could be the ABS, the looks, the color scheme, or a culmination of different things, hence subjective. People are drawn to the 300, it's still not a 600cc+ bike and it's still considered a beginner bike.

The OP question was about the additional power, not about the additional features.

Reading > You

[GreenNinja]

The 250 has been around for roughly 26 years and this is the first time they increased it to 300cc. It isn't like it is getting an increase every 5 years. I personally think it is a good increase. I don't own one yet, but it sounds like a good change to make the bike become more than just a beginner's bike.

[choneofakind]

I feel that from an engine perspective, the 300 is still a great beginner bike because:

• The delivery is still quite smooth and linear, not peaky and high strung.
• It does not seem to have the guts to power wheelie, or do rolling burn outs.
• It does seem to have just barely enough power to spin the rear a tad when leaned over the whole way, but that's because Alex rides like a madman. He's the only person I've heard that reported from
• The slipper clutch makes the bike practically idiot proof so you can't completely botch a downshift and lock the rear.

Still a good beginner bike, maybe better than the 250R because it's more idiot proof. When looking at a bike for a beginner, you really have to look at more than just the engine output. Sure, adding power is bad for a beginner. But the overall package of the new bike is more beginner friendly.

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by Alex

The reasons why it might not be a great 1st bike are simply because it's new and comparably expensive as a rider learns to keep a motorcycle off of its side.

It's not any worse than a beginner buying a new Honda CBR250R. If we keep things in perspective, and compare like for like, both bikes are good beginner bikes and cost really shouldn't come into play. That is, unless you ask if it's a good beginner bike for someone on a budget. Then, everyone's going to tell you to get a used bike. At that point, we start to compare 250 vs 300.

Originally Posted by kcaja1

Incremental increases in power through model progression make the original idea of 'less is more' die slowly.
The original Miata, 240Z, and AE86 years ago started with this idea but gained weight and power as the models progressed. The fun factor started to suffer with it. Car enthusiasts started to ask manufacturers to again build fun cars with less power and weight and it seems car companies are listening. Look at the new Scion FR-S, Subaru BRZ, upcoming 240Z, etc. They are selling very well.
My point is, is the Ninjette following this wrong path and deviating from its core advantage of 'just enough power to have fun'? What's next Ninja 350?

A couple of things I'd like to point out about your analogy. The miata hasn't gained enough weight to offset it's power to weight ratio like the old/new supra. I wouldn't really put it in the list of cars. Mazda's rx-7 and miata have both kept the weight low and they may have added a few pounds, but not a lot. The other thing is that the 240 was nissan's top US sports car at the time. The only way to go was up with it. Your analogy would work if you said sentra. If you had said sentra, then your argument falls apart.

In terms of comparison, Kawi's 300 is the baby of the family. They're not going to treat it like the zx14 and keep trying to push more power into it.

Look at it this way, the auto industry is now implementing what the moto industry has been doing since the beginning. Making small displacement vehicles that can be fun to drive with a good power to weight ratio.

I agree with the others. An extra 50cc's isn't going to make a beginners experience any worse. You can still get into trouble with a 250. Would you prefer people starting on 125's? Do you think it'll help? Statistically, most motorcycle accidents that don't involve other vehicles are rider error. The only other times are when the motorcycles have parts malfunctions. Accidents don't really occur because there's too much power, just too much ego and not enough sense. I've been down a few times myself. Each time, it was my fault, not the bike's 250cc's. You live and learn.

[joshuajcrouch]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

I agree with the others. An extra 50cc's isn't going to make a beginners experience any worse. You can still get into trouble with a 250. Would you prefer people starting on 125's? Do you think it'll help? Statistically, most motorcycle accidents that don't involve other vehicles are rider error. The only other times are when the motorcycles have parts malfunctions. Accidents don't really occur because there's too much power, just too much ego and not enough sense. I've been down a few times myself. Each time, it was my fault, not the bike's 250cc's. You live and learn.

Great post.

[ricochet08]

i believe it's a good beginners bike. It's just like the 250, but it's been lifting weights.

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by kcaja1

When is enough enough for a good beginner's bike?

I didn't say that the power is not enough, I said it isn't enough to get you into TOO much trouble, I.e. 600/1000cc trouble... it's not going to power wheelie out of control if you accidentally give it too much gas... I hope that answers your question.

[rjones91]

Anything 500cc and less is good as a beginner bike in my opinion.

[antiant]

Originally Posted by joshuajcrouch

The OP question was about the additional power, not about the additional features.

Reading > You

Read what I said. The OP is assuming that people are attracted because of the power and doesn't list other variables, therefore it is an assumption.

Reeding > Yu

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by antiant

Read what I said. The OP is assuming that people are attracted because of the power and doesn't list other variables, therefore it is an assumption.

Reeding > Yu

u is teh fails

[joshuajcrouch]

Originally Posted by antiant

Read what I said. The OP is assuming that people are attracted because of the power and doesn't list other variables, therefore it is an assumption.

Reeding > Yu

Wow dude, you just confused me even more. Are we looking at the same thread?

[antiant]

Originally Posted by kcaja1

My point is, is the Ninjette following this wrong path and deviating from its core advantage of 'just enough power to have fun'? What's next Ninja 350?

I don't think that's a problem as companies use niche marketing in order to balance out the scale and gain the upper hand, albeit temporarily. The hp has stayed pretty consistent for the last 20 some odd years, give or take. I look at it like a boxing match, it's t i t for tat, one company throws an upper cut, another throws a jab, repeat cycle. A good company will know how to predict and or counter its contenders and reach the demographic it needs to reach, otherwise they wouldn't stand a chance in the "ring," so to speak. Standards and supply and demand change all the time, as that is the nature of the beast.

Originally Posted by Jiggles

u is teh fails

Hi Sean Voight, good to see you on this forum.

Originally Posted by joshuajcrouch

Wow dude, you just confused me even more. Are we looking at the same thread?

Heh, I just realized what happened. The first initial comment was not directed at you, but to the OP. Just because someone comments beneath you, doesn't mean they are talking to you, unless of course they are quoting you, fyi. It's all good.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by antiant

Hi Sean Voight, good to see you on this forum.

Did you look at one of my picture links????

u ams teh smarts!

[Snake]

I have not had the pleasure of ridding one yet but from what I hear yes it is as user friendly as its little brother.

[antiant]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Did you look at one of my picture links????

u ams teh smarts!

I t0tallee roxx0rs!