!!CLUTCH ISSUES!! need help!! actuator/bolt will not engage

[pacificgreens]

Hi guys!
New to the ninja 250r and new to the forum
I picked up the bike last week, thinking i was getting some what of a deal, which has turned into somewhat of a nightmare :/

So the bike was up and running (not great, but running) and i went for a ride. the idle/mixture was not set properly so the bike died on me while coasting down a hill. I figured i would just ease the clucth back out and restart the engine (basically push start the bike, i think i was in 2nd gear). but it didnt work that way....
I let the clutch out and nothing happened...
Clutch became slacked, and i could move the actuator by hand with no resistance at all...
So i get the bike home, and open her up. i find the springs are badly worn. so i replace them and the friction plates. but this does nothing to solve my problem.

I installed everything the way it should be, put the cover on, and found i could still move the clutch actuator by hand and when i move the actuator to the 11 o'clock position, it does not return to the 9 o'clock position on its own :/ even with a new clutch and new springs (i tapped the bolt in with a hammer before i put the cover on, and turned the actuator by hand, it had a bit of resistance but i could still turn it by hand, and then it remained open) ,

The problem seems to be that the bolt (part#46102) doesnt engage (or disengage) the clutch pack. It stays out/open after, even with the new springs...

any ideas???
I have no idea what it could be. i didnt see any broken parts, but i couldn't get the clutch basket off....

could i have broke something by 'push-starting' the bike while not in first gear (while rolling down the hill)?

Also: should the bolt inside the clutch basket move freely? Mine is very stiff, i cannot move it by hand. I have to use the clutch actuator to open it, and the light tap of a hammer to close it.... If it should move freely, what would cause it to get sticky?

[dcj13]

Welcome, Matt!

Sorry, but no clue. Hopefully someone with pregen clutch experience will chime in.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by pacificgreens

Hi guys!
New to the ninja 250r and new to the forum...........

Welcome, Matt !!!

Take a look at these:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...4&postcount=18

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187889

Tell us the year of your bike, please.

In order to separate the discs, part #46102 pulls the plate out via bearing.

What is the "bolt inside the clutch basket"?

[pacificgreens]

thanks for the quick reply!! that's awesome!!!

sorry i forgot to mention its a 2007 EX250F7F

that bolt i was referring to was the same one mentioned earlier (Part# 46102)

on the first diagram i saw, it was referred to simply as "BOLT," but on your diagram its labeled 'clutch rod'

I saw that one post 'clutch wont disengage'.
it kind of seems like the same problem, but WTF did he do to fix it?!?! lol
Seems like he just put it back together... Unfortunately, my problem seems more involved than that.... :/

I have it put together right, but I still can't seem to get the clutch cable to keep tension......

When i assemble everything, properly , at first there is tension in the clutch line, then i get one pull on the clutch lever and it slacks out again.

At that point the actuator (13102) moves freely between 7 o'clock and 12 o'clock.
Taking the cover off again, I find the 'clutch rod' (Part# 46102) fully extended and will not easily retract, and the bearing (92045) pressed tightly between the operating plate and clutch rod.
Giving the head a couple light taps of the hammer, the 'clutch rod' (Part# 46102) retracts, moving back to what i would call a closed position, but even with the clutch rod "closed," it doesn't look like the clutch pack moves with it(the operating, friction & steel plates), leaving the bearing (92045) some free-play to move back & forth within the assembly.

So I put the clutch cover on again, losely, and turned the clutch actuator (part# 13102), by hand, from 9 o'clock to 12 o'clock and then the clutch actuator freely rotates again. removing the cover I found the clutch rod (Part # 46102) fully extended, and not retracting on its own...


A couple things i've noticed:
The 'Hub'(13087) spins freely*, in Neutral and in 1st gear (cannot shift past 1st gear)
*when i remove the the bolts (92001), the operating plate (13187), and the steel & friction plates (13088/9)

Turning the 'Housing' (13095) turns the engine

I can still shift between Neutral and 1st gear freely

Motor still runs (although it is apart right now, awaiting new gaskets after a valve adjustment) and can turn the engine using the electric starter

I think im able to shift into 1st w/motor running, but nothing happens (no grinding & no moving forward), but i cant check right now since the engine is apart




Since a new set of clutch springs didn't work* my next assumption is that the clutch rod needs replacing since its sticky**

How hard is it suppose to be to move the clutch rod by hand?
What would cause it to become so hard to move?
And, what could i do to make it move freely??


*I thought the springs were too short/worn to get the clutch to engage (get the clutch rod #47102 to retract); so new, aka longer, springs would push it shut (but no luck...)

**I think that, when the springs are removed, the clutch rod (#47102) should slide in and out by hand

[Motofool]

The order of assembly is like shown in the diagram.
The rod does not pull the plate by friction, its step goes behind the bearing.
The plate has also a step that prevents the bearing from sliding out.
So, there is no way to slide/pull the rod out without moving the bearing and plate altogether out.

The free play from 7:00 is the normal play to engage the vertical shaft (13102) into the neck of the rod.
Beyond certain point (around 11:00 if I remember correctly), you start feeling the resistance of the springs (as an apparent solid resistance).
Your hand alone is not strong enough to overcome the resistance of the springs; hence, the need for that lever at the cover.

You can only rotate that lever a few degrees clockwise using a crescent wrench on it: the the plate will move out a fraction of an inch, releasing the pressure of the springs on the pack of friction and metal discs.

[pacificgreens]

well ****.....
i think it might be ok...
i might feel really stupid after this one... lol

so ya the actuator has free play from 6 till 11oclock and then i can move it slightly from 11 to 12 (using a wrench), and it returns to the 11oclock position

i thought there was a greater distance for it to move
but it seems like it will work
after i adjust the cables (i think the cables are stretched, at the extremes of the adjustments, and will need replacing) I finally have resistance on my clutch lever!

well i guess ill put the motor back together, when i get the gaskets in, and see if it will work.

thanks for the reply.

it totally slipped my mind that it would be possible for it to move so little but still be doing its job.

thanks so much for the reply

..... ya i had it put together correctly, i just didn't think it was.....
you opened my eyes lol
thanks again

I was reading that the ex250f had a 'positive neutral finder' so you can only shift to N and 1 while standing still, and you can not push start the bike in second
So, when I tried to 'push start the bike' while rolling down the hill, i thought i might've damaged something, but i guess i was mistaken.

and i guess the new springs did fix the problem

hopefully the problem was all in my head, and when i get the motor running, the wheels will be spinning!

[dcj13]

Why can't one push-start the bike in 2nd gear?

Never heard that one before!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by pacificgreens

.........i might feel really stupid after this one... lol.
............it seems like it will work
after i adjust the cables (i think the cables are stretched, at the extremes of the adjustments, and will need replacing) I finally have resistance on my clutch lever!
..........
thanks for the reply.

it totally slipped my mind that it would be possible for it to move so little but still be doing its job.

thanks so much for the reply
.......
thanks again
........So, when I tried to 'push start the bike' while rolling down the hill, i thought i might've damaged something, but i guess i was mistaken.
.........

Stupid is only the rider who does not try, avoiding the pain of learning new things.

When the cable is not adjustable via bottom and top adjuster, it is just working on the last couple of strands and ready to give up.

You are welcome x 3 times

The positive neutral finder is nothing more than balls that lock the shifting (up) mechanism and that unlock it as soon as the output shaft starts rotating and the centrifugal effect shows up.
You cannot damage it by start-pushing the bike.

Wish you many miles of safe and happy riding.