Bike died while riding

[zem]

I was riding and the bike started to lug a bit until it died a few seconds later, and the oil light came on. I just bought the bike yesterday(2000 miles on it), and drove it about 90 miles since then. I was actually on the way to getting oil. Had a sibling buy the Shell Rotella T SAE 5w-40 and bring it to me. Filled it up a bit less than halfway on the oil window. Bike had trouble trouble at first, but then started. I let it run for a couple minutes with some choke, and the oil light went out. Started driving and couple minutes later same thing happened again. I filled a little bit more oil into it, and tried starting it again. Now i took way longer to start up, and once i had it one, i had to give it choke, and had to keep up the revs with the throttle. The oil light went out again, but the bike needed way more throttle input to rev and as soon as i went off the gas it died. I parked it by the entrance of a gated community. I checked the oil level again after i pushed it, and it now was almost all the way up to the top....Help, I'm such a newb!

[k-os]

Do you know how long the bike sat for? You may want to clean out your carbs, could be part of the problem with the choke and revs.

[Bosgarage57]

Please dont flame me, but did you check your gas? Mighta had some junk in the tank and got sucked into the carbs with you actually riding it. You could try some seafoam or gas treatment or clean the carbs if you know how.

[CZroe]

Sounds like clogged carbs and bad gas due to it sitting a long time. You probably overfilled the oil if you added while it was on the side-stand. If it's anything like mine, the oil light always comes on when the key is turned with the ignition off (like a car... to make sure the light still works).

[Doerrman]

If your light came on while riding on the highway after the engine died, that's normal. When the engine shuts off you automatically lose oil pressure, but that doesn't mean you're low on oil. You will want to put your bike on it's center stand while on FLAT GROUND and recheck that oil window. There's a chance you have too much oil in there now. No big deal at the moment, but if you try and ride you'll have trouble.
I second the comments about the carbs. Give those a good cleaning and you should be riding again in no time.

[alex.s]

+1 on the gas... how long was the gas in there before it happened? 90 miles... all on the gas that was already in there? have you filled it up since you bought it?

if it's not the gas, does the bike have any mods? perhaps maybe an exhaust or airbox modification that was done without rejetting? if the jetting is wrong in a specific way (fuel way too rich?), it would start fine when its cold but once it warms up might have issues.

[zem]

Just went back twice to the bike, at first the oil level went back to halfway, now the second time it was a quarter.
The carbs were actually cleaned 9 days ago at the dealership so it couldn't be that. I did fill the oil on the sidestand though, but I don't know if there is too much in there now or not. And about the oil light: it was on when i turned on the bike both times but went out after a few minutes of running. Even though the second time it took a lot of throttle input just to get the revs up a little bit. There's still plenty gas in there, I tried switching to the reserve but didn't make a difference. My neighbor said it might be a bad fuel pump? I also talked to the guy I bought it from, and he had no clue to what it could be but mention that maybe something's wrong with the spark plugs.
Is it even possible that I didn't put in the right oil? I had my sis get the Shell Rotella T6 SAE 5w40 heavy duty engine oil. I saw that one in the DIY oil change thread , so I don't even know why im asking this question?!

oh yeah, and the bike is stock.

[Cuongism]

When you're checking the oil level, are you checking on flat ground while the bike is vertical (not on sidestand)?

[zem]

when it's on the sidestand. So i guess you need to check it while vertical... When i was pushing the bike earlier it was almost all the way up on the sight glass, but now back on the sidestand it sank. I probably put too much oil in there, didn't I? Even then it must be something else because the first time i filled it, i put in less than halfway up...

[kkim]

two things come to mind... as asked, are you checking the oil with the bike vertical and level? if not, you may be overfilling it.

second, did you flip the gas petcock to reserve? you might just be running low on gas.

[zem]

I checked it on the sidestand, so I might have overfilled it. As mention before I switched to reserve but it didn't make a difference. I looked inside the tank too, and there still plenty in there. As I'm not able to get it looked at, at the dealer, til Tuesday, I'm not sure if I should tow it to my apartment complex, get the repair manual and have someone tech savvy help me solve the problem, which would be less money, or tow it to the dealer and not be able to do anything about it till next week?

[kkim]

sorry, I missed that about switching to reserve... but, are you sure you're turning the petcock handle the correct way to put it on reserve and you're not actually turning it off?

The Off setting is pretty self-explanatory -- it shuts off fuel from the tank to the carburetors, and is how you want to leave the bike if it's going to sit for a long time. On the Ninja 250, this is when the long side of the valve handle is pointing straight back.

[alex.s]

the oil light stays on for *minutes* after starting the bike? somethings up with that. its either over filled (sounds like it) or your oil pump is doing something funky.... or your head gasket is leaking tons of oil into your cylinder but i doubt that... you'ld have black smoke everywhere and knocking all to hell..

put it on a rear stand or have someone sit on the bike to make sure its really vertical. how much oil did you put in it? when you put the oil in was it with or without a filter?

[zem]

yeah the light was on for a minute or two and then went off. I put it in without a filter. Neither did I have one nor do I know how, I was on the side of the street anyway. I filled the oil a bit less then halfway on the sight glass, then I got the bike running and after a few minutes I drove off. It was fine and then a couple minutes it started lugging again and died. I waited a few minutes, the oil level was just under a quarter and, i dunno if that's normal but, it had tiny bubbles on top that went away. I filled back a bit under halfway. I guess that was too much. When I rolled to park it was almost at the top like i said earlier, but it went down later again.
By the way, thanks for all you guys's input

[alex.s]

lets play the math game... how much oil is left in the containers? take total amount of oil minus oil left in used containers and viola, you now know how much you put in your bike. not sure how much goes in the pregen but on the new one without filter i believe its 1.7l??? so hopefully theres .3l left in the containers... well i guess those containers are .9L? so maybe there should be .1l left.... anyway its late hopefully you figure it out

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by zem

yeah the light was on for a minute or two and then went off. I put it in without a filter. Neither did I have one nor do I know how, I was on the side of the street anyway. I filled the oil a bit less then halfway on the sight glass, then I got the bike running and after a few minutes I drove off. It was fine and then a couple minutes it started lugging again and died. I waited a few minutes, the oil level was just under a quarter and, i dunno if that's normal but, it had tiny bubbles on top that went away. I filled back a bit under halfway. I guess that was too much. When I rolled to park it was almost at the top like i said earlier, but it went down later again.
By the way, thanks for all you guys's input

You mixed Rotella T6 with whatever as already in there so that coiuld explain the bubbling. Also, when my 2008 model is on the side stand the oil level reads completely empty so you probably should not have added any. The oil light is always on when the engine isn't running but was yours coming on while the engine was running BEFORE overfilling?

[zem]

The light wasn't on before it died, but I wasn't able to get it to start until I put more oil in. Is it possible that the engine's flooded? Or does that have nothing to do with oil? I'll drain some oil when I pick it up soon, but should i try the unflooding procedure as well anyway?

alex.s, it's a gallon container, 1.9 liters goes into the ninja, and there's still more than half in the container. So unless it wasn't even low on oil, then i obviously overfilled it, which would mean that it's a totally different problem i guess??

[bdavison]

With the bike cold, and perfectly vertical, looking at the sight glass what does it show? If its too full, you can drain some out. If its not full enough, add more.

There are two lines on the sight glass. The top one is the maximum, and the lower one is the minimum. You must always check with the bike perfectly vertical, never on the side stand.

[nah.uhh]

The oil filter being old/clogged can make the pressure light stay on longer, but anything longer an 10 seconds I wouldn't be ok with..

To check the oil level
-the engine must be cold OR sitting for 3+ minutes
- bike must be on flat ground, vertical (don't check on sidestand (rear stand should read abt half full when full))
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[zem]

Thanks guys for all your help! It's fixed! I met up with the guy who i bought it from and checked it out. It really was bad gas, the guys at the dealership must have not drained the tank when they cleaned the carbs... So oil was never the problem. We drained the tank, drained the oil back to normal level, filled up with gas (he filled it up with premium, any thoughts on that?) and added some gumout, and bam it was running again. Yay!

[alex.s]

higher octane like premium gas is only useful when you have high compression in the engine. higher octane means its harder for the gas to ignite. you have to run higher octane gas on higher compression engines because if you don't, the gas blows purely because of the compression, so you get prefires and knocking. the 250 isn't that high of an engine, and if you don't get knocking on regular, you don't need premium.

[nah.uhh]

Originally Posted by zem

(he filled it up with premium, any thoughts on that?)

Yes, a few things
-Premium gas tends to have more additives than regular which help clean the fuel system
-a lot of stations are mandated to include ethanol in their gas. Some of those stations keep their premium grades ethanol free. (Sort of a double edge sword, since ethanol is also an octane booster so some stations premium grades nothing more than 87 with even more ethanol content.) The problem with ethanol gas is when it sits for too long the ethanol/water separates from the gas.. In your owners manual it tells you to never store your bike with "gasohol" for this reason.
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[alex.s]

Originally Posted by nah.uhh

Yes, a few things
-Premium gas tends to have more additives than regular which help clean the fuel system
-a lot of stations are mandated to include ethanol in their gas. Some of those stations keep their premium grades ethanol free. (Sort of a double edge sword, since ethanol is also an octane booster so some stations premium grades nothing more than 87 with even more ethanol content.) The problem with ethanol gas is when it sits for too long the ethanol/water separates from the gas.. In your owners manual it tells you to never store your bike with "gasohol" for this reason.
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might just be me but i don't really buy into that marketing crap. if your fuel system needs cleaning, clean it for $5 of seafoam every 10K miles. don't waste money on gas you don't need.

[nah.uhh]

Originally Posted by alex.s

might just be me but i don't really buy into that marketing crap. if your fuel system needs cleaning, clean it for $5 of seafoam every 10K miles. don't waste money on gas you don't need.

Where I'm at all 87 octane is 10% ethanol, MOST 91 is ethanol free, the 89 is ~5% which is a blend of the 91 and the 87.

The speedy gumming up of the carbs is caused by ethanol gas, which destabilizes and loses octane far faster than ethanol-free gas. Fuel stabalizer doesn't work as well or as long in E10 gas either..

My point is, even if the additives don't do squat (I'd rather no additives.. Ill take my clean gas lol) the fact is still its pretty much impossible to get ethanol-free gas in the lower grades. And since these bikes can use basically anything at the pump, I'm not worried about octane at all, since any will do. what I'm looking for is either best cost/mile or ethanol free, which usually ends up meaning I buy premo or 89, since 87 means I fill up 25 miles earlier. I'm getting 45mpg max on 87 e10, 50+2mpg on E-free gas (only availabe in 91 at certain stations here)

I'm not recommending the op use premo gas for the hell of it, I'm saying the reason the previous owner used it to run the bike instead of 87 was probably one of those reasons. Either lower/no ethanol content or higher additive package. Other than that there is no reason to use a premium fuel.

If I'm storing my bike I'd only be using ethanol free gas (to avoid the jets clogging), which (where I am) is only 91, anything higher/lower is boosted with ethanol.
For regular driving, ill use whatever since 91 E-free isn't easy to find.. , but if any of my vehicles are going to be sitting I make sure to use e free.

But yea.. I agree with you the additives are more marketing than anything else, and yea seafoam is probably way more effecient cleaner(wouldn't know, never had to use it). But I don't just run crap (not talking about 87 octane, I'm talking about E10) in my engine when for the difference in price, I can buy Efree end up saving $

Lol long enough post
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[CZroe]

Glad it's running. Another thing to consider is fuel system ventilation. A lot of current-gen owners experience a stall when the tank cools. The typical scenario is parking for about 15 minutes before tearing off on an already warmed-up bike. A couple blocks later, it sputters and dies. If you can get it started with choke on it will die again soon afterwards and take several minutes before it will start again *unless* you open the fuel tank and let it vent. The more room in your tank for air the more likely it is to happen (gasses contract in cold temps more readily than liquids) and the more likely you are to wrongly attribute it to running out of gas.

[zem]

Took it for a 3 mile ride to the store. When I parked I saw that some oil was dripping on the ground. It came of the lower fairing. Wiped it off and also wiped off the oil drain plug that got soaked in oil when draining it. I did check the oil level again and it was over the top line so I guess I have to remove some more. When we drained it we had it on the centerstand and did it until it was about half.

Any reason why it now was higher than before? Isn't the oil reading a bit higher with the centerstand compared to it just standing vertically? Is it fine to drive for a couple miles with the oil over the top line or should I refrain from riding until I get it back to normal level?

Sorry for all the questions but, the chain has a good amount of play, your able to hear it clacking when changing gears. I won't be able to adjust it till Tuesday at the dealer or when my friend comes back into town, who has the tools and the know-how. How many more miles can I drive with the chain like this? Thanks for your replies!

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by zem

Took it for a 3 mile ride to the store. When I parked I saw that some oil was dripping on the ground. It came of the lower fairing. Wiped it off and also wiped off the oil drain plug that got soaked in oil when draining it. I did check the oil level again and it was over the top line so I guess I have to remove some more. When we drained it we had it on the centerstand and did it until it was about half.

Any reason why it now was higher than before? Isn't the oil reading a bit higher with the centerstand compared to it just standing vertically? Is it fine to drive for a couple miles with the oil over the top line or should I refrain from riding until I get it back to normal level?

Sorry for all the questions but, the chain has a good amount of play, your able to hear it clacking when changing gears. I won't be able to adjust it till Tuesday at the dealer or when my friend comes back into town, who has the tools and the know-how. How many more miles can I drive with the chain like this? Thanks for your replies!

When my chain started doing that it was because my rear sprocket was wearing away and I had to adjust it almost daily. I quickly ran out of adjust-ability and had to switch back to my older larger rear sprocket to tighten it any more but the stretched chain quickly ruined that one too. It's supposed to be something you check and correct often, like when you lubricate every 200 miles. If your bike still has the OEM tool kit, it should have everything you need to do it on the road (without torquing to spec, of course). The new-gen needs the flat axle nut wrench, the two dog-bone wrenches, and the handle thing that attaches to the axle nut wrench (also attaches to the spanner wrench for preload adjustment on a current-gen).

[zem]

Originally Posted by CZroe

When my chain started doing that it was because my rear sprocket was wearing away and I had to adjust it almost daily. I quickly ran out of adjust-ability and had to switch back to my older larger rear sprocket to tighten it any more but the stretched chain quickly ruined that one too. It's supposed to be something you check and correct often, like when you lubricate every 200 miles. If your bike still has the OEM tool kit, it should have everything you need to do it on the road (without torquing to spec, of course). The new-gen needs the flat axle nut wrench, the two dog-bone wrenches, and the handle thing that attaches to the axle nut wrench (also attaches to the spanner wrench for preload adjustment on a current-gen).

Don't have the toolkit. Could the bike even have wear on the rear sprocket with just 2k miles on the odometer? Either way, any idea how many miles i can drive like this with the chain? Is it fine to ride a couple miles also with the oil being a bit over the top line? Don't have the tools yet to remove the drain plug. Or is it possible to syphon the oil out with a tube?

[nah.uhh]

If its at half on the centerstand and overfull when vertical it should be alright..,

hold the bike vertical (on 2 wheels and have the kickstand down) and slowly tip the bike back down onto the kickstand, the level should start dropping as soon as the bike starts to lean over, you should be able to guage how much too full it is by how far you tilt the bike before you can see the level drop. If you can see it start dropping as soon as you you start tipping, I wouldn't worry about it at all. But on the other hand, if its sitting on the kickstand showing full I'd empty some out first
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[zem]

ah ok. when it's on the sidestand it's at about a quarter. On no stand vertical it is almost at the top, leaned just a tiny bit to the right the whole thing is filled. So it's still fine I guess?

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by zem

ah ok. when it's on the sidestand it's at about a quarter. On no stand vertical it is almost at the top, leaned just a tiny bit to the right the whole thing is filled. So it's still fine I guess?

According to Nah, it should probably be about half-way on the glass when on the center stand. It could probably stand to lose a bit more.

[zem]

yeah that's how it is. I did drive it to work now, which was only a mile or so. Before I left I put it on the centerstand and it was halfway.

[zem]

So I just took it for another ride (also went on the highway the first time). Before, putting it on the center stand put the oil level at just above halfway like i mentioned earlier. But now after this ride I put on the center stand and the oil was either at or just a tiny bit over the top line. How was it less earlier and now way more?

[Alex]

Magic.

(if the oil was cold, it might take a few minutes to show its true level after you put it up on the center stand. Once warm after a ride, it moves around quite easily.)

[CZroe]

Are you comparing it on a level surface? Oriented the same way on the same surface?

[zem]

Originally Posted by Alex

Magic.

Bike was on same surface but different location. I'd say both were level. So is it safe to still ride?

I also have a question about chain slack. The chain has about 1.5 inches slack if I measured it correct. In the manual it says 40mm which just over 1.5 inches. Now my family might go up north 90 miles for the day, so I'm wondering if it is safe to drive with the chain if in the worst case the chain's a bit over the 1.5 inches? I won't be able to get it adjusted till tomorrow, should I wait till then for longer rides?

[Alex]

It should be fine. A little too loose is much better than a little too tight. If it gets so loose that it really starts flapping around, there's a risk it might jump off the sprocket, but a little over 1.5" isn't going to do it.

[alex.s]

yeah just make sure the chain isn't too tight... that'll screw up the splines on the pinion iirc. it sounds like you sorted out your oil problem but when you take it to your dealer if you want, you might want to mention it to them... they can check it in about 5 seconds. you don't want too much oil in an engine because it puts too much pressure in the cylinders(?) or at least certain parts of the engine... my brother's the engine mechanic not me. anyway, too much oil blows your head gasket he always says.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by alex.s

yeah just make sure the chain isn't too tight... that'll screw up the splines on the pinion iirc.

What's that? Is it anything that replacing the sprockets and chain wouldn't fix?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by CZroe

What's that? Is it anything that replacing the sprockets and chain wouldn't fix?

err... heres a quick google search i did: http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/arc.../t-692614.html

Quote: "I'm almost 100% confident that chain tension (too tight) is causing the spline wear. When the tension is too tight, only the chain, sprockets and spline will wear excessively. The Husky's require a very slack adjustment. Review the owners manual for accuracy of your tension.

You can test my opinion by running your chain tight for about 400 miles and then examine the output shaft splines... Don't say I didn't warn you!"

but i've heard this many different places about everything from pocket bikes to street bikes


edit: i think i misread your reply... its the splines on the output shaft itsself not the pinion that they link to, sorry... but i guess if one is wearing, it would also wear the pinion?