Hi everyone, my first post!

[bluefire1914]

Hey guys,

I've been looking for a good forum. I'm seriously considering buying a 2011 Ninja 250. I just can't decide between this and the new cbr250....

On the one hand, the Ninja looks way sportier. On the other, the cbr250 is fuel injected.

Can anyone give me any advice? Is carb maintenance a hassle?

Thanks!

["A"]

Welcome,

I'm a practical guy, you're likely to receive only the practical advice from me.

FI is over-rated, well tuned carbs, like the ones on a Ninja 250 require minimal maintenance, performs just as well, unless your altitude variance is above 5000 ft. on a single ride.

If this is going to be your first motorcycle purchase ever.. get over the attractive looks of the post-2008 Ninja 250, save your money and find a pre-2007 Ninja. They are lighter in weight, equipped with centerstand, and likely to be purchased at much lower price.

Good luck hunting.

[bluefire1914]

Originally Posted by "A"

Welcome,

I'm a practical guy, you're likely to receive only the practical advice from me.

FI is over-rated, well tuned carbs, like the ones on a Ninja 250 require minimal maintenance, performs just as well, unless your altitude variance is above 5000 ft. on a single ride.

If this is going to be your first motorcycle purchase ever.. get over the attractive looks of the post-2008 Ninja 250, save your money and find a pre-2007 Ninja. They are lighter in weight, equipped with centerstand, and likely to be purchased at much lower price.

Good luck hunting.

Hi, thanks for the advice!

Actually, this is my 2nd bike ever. I took the MSF course (on a Buell Blast at a Harley dealership), and bought a used 2006 Ninja after that.

I'm moving from Chicago to Austin in a few months, and the riding bug has bit me again (I sold the 2006 Ninja after about a year). I'm planning on buying a bike within the next week and then hauling it down to Austin with our RV.

Austin's altitude is pretty much the same as Chicago, so I'm not too worried about that. I guess I just was concerned with having to jet or clean the carbs. FI seems so much more hassle-free.

But I can't get over how much nicer the Ninja looks, and it seems to have a bit more mass to it. I don't want a suicide-machine superbike, I'm content to have a 250 for around-town plugging and commuting to work (a ten mile round trip). The nose and headlight on the 2011 seems a bit meaner and aggressive, which I like.

The dealership in town is getting an ebony black 2011 on Tuesday, and I put a deposit down on it for now (they've been going pretty fast).

I just hope I'm not missing out on not waiting for the ever-more-rare CBR250.

[TenaciousD]

I've had my Ninja for almost a year now and aside from shimming the needles to fix the initial lean condition I have not had to touch the carbs. I can't say you'll never have to mess with the carbs, because you probably will, but for the most part they are trouble free. They seem to do much better if the bike is ridden fairly often. The trouble seems to come when these bikes sit for a while and the carbs get gummed up.
I really don't think you're missing out by not getting the CBR250. It's a nice bike I'm sure but the Ninja is also excellent.

[TrueFaith]

It's not just the FI. For beginning riders the abundant torque on the CBR250R inspires confidence much more than the Ninja, IMO. The Honda has a more responsive throttle at low speeds and starts from traffic lights are effortless with absolutely no "bogging" or hesitation like the Ninja.
As far as the "mass" of the Honda compared to the Ninja, pictures are very decieving. The CBR looks much bigger when you're standing next to it. The Honda is taller than the Ninja and appears longer in person too, even though the wheelbase is a little shorter. It actually feels bigger to me than my Ninja did. The reason for that is the seating position and lower pegs. I'm 6' and 220lbs. and the Ninja always felt a little small and cramped when I was riding it. Sitting on the Honda for the first time was a real revelation. The cockpit seems a lot roomier and it feels like a much bigger bike because of it.
It all depends what you plan to use the bike for. I think the CBR250R is going to appeal to beginning riders more than the Ninja because of the FI, torque, available ABS and a seating position that accomodates bigger frames. If you are into doing speed mods and having the bike grow with you as your skills improve I think the Ninja is the better choice. Don't base your decision on what you see and read in magazines or online though. Go to a dealer and actually sit on both bikes. That will be your moment of truth. They are different enough that sitting on both bikes will make the decision much easier.

[bluefire1914]

I'm 6' and 220lbs. and the Ninja always felt a little small and cramped when I was riding it.

Okay, I'm 5'6" and 140 pounds. Do you think the Ninja would be a better fit for me? I kind of want to feel like I'm a part of the bike, not really like I'm riding on a couch.

I've had my Ninja for almost a year now and aside from shimming the needles to fix the initial lean condition I have not had to touch the carbs.

Can you tell me what "shimming the needles" means, and what effect that has?

[Boom King]

I agree with TrueFaith. Both bikes have their pros but try to see both in person and sit on them to a get a general "feel". That being said, you desire to have a bike within the next week but are you even able to buy a Honda CBR250R in that time frame at your local dealerships? Everything I've heard so far seems to indicate a longer waiting period for a bike that is so high in demand right now. You can walk in a Kawasaki dealer and probably ride the Ninja out of the showroom that same day but I don't think you can do that right now with the Honda.

Bluefire, I'm a little bigger than you but not by much. The Ninja fits me perfectly. You had the pre-gen Ninja so the new Ninja shouldn't be much more bigger than that. I can't compare to the Honda as I've never sat on one but TrueFaith did mention that it "feels" and looks bigger. Again, trying them out in person yourself is the best bet.

Can you tell me what "shimming the needles" means, and what effect that has?

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11963

There a ton of good resources on this website that you can read up on to give you a better understanding of this bike. FYI, shimming is not critical or absolutely necessary. The Ninja is still an excellent ride straight off the factory floor.

[TrueFaith]

Originally Posted by bluefire1914

Okay, I'm 5'6" and 140 pounds. Do you think the Ninja would be a better fit for me? I kind of want to feel like I'm a part of the bike, not really like I'm riding on a couch.

Yes I think the Ninja would fit someone your size perfectly, but so could the CBR. Reach to the handlebars, seat height, legroom, angle of the seat, the weight and width of the bike and saddle are all things that should be checked out on both bikes before you rule either out. Certainly before you sign anything and commit to spending thousands of dollars.
Now that there is an actual choice in the 250 market you'd be selling yourself short not to use it and you'll feel much better about your final choice after actually sitting on both.

[bluefire1914]

Originally Posted by Boom King

That being said, you desire to have a bike within the next week but are you even able to buy a Honda CBR250R in that time frame at your local dealerships?
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11963
FYI, shimming is not critical or absolutely necessary. The Ninja is still an excellent ride straight off the factory floor.

Boom King,

That is one issue as well. There are absolutely no CBR250's expected anywhere around here until late June or July. Meanwhile my wife and I are depending on one car to get us both to work, which is a hassle, and I'm itching to start riding before too long. My local dealership tells me that a solid ebony black 2011 Ninja is coming in on Tuesday and I put a refundable deposit on it for now.

Also, thanks a lot for that link! That was a cool read. Just one question:

Does shimming the needles by using, say 2 or 3 washers, significantly decrease mpg? And does it make it pick up and go from a stop a little faster? Does it lessen the time it takes for the bike to warm up upon start-up?

The reason I ask is because the Honda is said to be better at mpg (about 15 miles better, by most estimates), takes off from a stop better, and no warm-up time because of FI.

If shimming the needles or installing a jet kit would help in those departments, I'd definitely choose the Ninja over the CBR.

[leia]

Originally Posted by bluefire1914

Okay, I'm 5'6" and 140 pounds. Do you think the Ninja would be a better fit for me? I kind of want to feel like I'm a part of the bike, not really like I'm riding on a couch.

I am by no means any kind of expert......but I sat on both at a dealer.
I'm 5'5" with fairly average girl inseam and the Ninja was a better fit for me. On the CBR, I could only get the balls of my feet down. Ninja I was flat footed.
I did not hear the Honda running or ride it.

[coondog]

Originally Posted by bluefire1914

Hey guys,

I've been looking for a good forum. I'm seriously considering buying a 2011 Ninja 250. I just can't decide between this and the new cbr250....

On the one hand, the Ninja looks way sportier. On the other, the cbr250 is fuel injected.

Can anyone give me any advice? Is carb maintenance a hassle?

Thanks!

personally i'm wondering how you can compare the two and come away confused. get a used ninja 250 if you're new to cycling, be thankful you've got carbs over efi on a small parallel twin (for maintenance AND performance), and you can go on the highway two-up on the ninja safely.

["A"]

Since you've already familiar with the Ninja 250, I don't see the advantage of FI CBR going to offer anymore than just a new thing to learn.

If you're going to be riding in TX, probably you should be looking at a motorcycle with more engine displacement.
Maybe someone in Austin area can give you an idea what the riding is like out there.. whether or not a 250 can keep up with traffic safely and have plenty in reserve to get out of trouble.

[Boom King]

Whoo! Just came back from a nice ride. This is such an awesome bike and I love her more with each time I take her out . It was sunny and 27 degrees celcius here. Started her up with the choke but switched it off after 15 seconds. By the time I did up my helmet and gloves up, she was good to ride off. FI does give you quicker start up but in warm weather like this, the carb is not at a significant disadvantage here either.

Yes, you will take a hit in fuel economy by shimming your needles. Seems the consensus from people who has done this is anywhere from 5% to a high of 10%. Many report 50 mpgs after shimming. Still not a bad trade-off. You can start off with 2 washers and go from there as every Ninja is not tuned exactly the same off the factory line. Like I said earlier, it's not exactly critical and some Ninjas don't even need it. If you end up buying the Ninja (hint, hint ), I suggest you spend some good time riding it around first before you decide if you even need to shim your needles. I'm no expert on this by any means and the pros here may have some good insight for you if I left anything out.

FYI, another great thread by the masterful kkim on shimming that may answer any of your questions:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9465

[bluefire1914]

Boom King (or anyone else),

What is the typical mpg you're getting?

I've heard anywhere from 49.1 (which is terrible in my opinion), to as high as almost 70. . . I know it depends on what type of driving you're doing. .

I'm looking to primarily be doing around-the-town driving. On my 2006 Ninja, I remember getting about 70 mpg doing the same type of driving. Granted, I only weigh about 135 and I know that has something to do with it.

But can I expect about the same mpg? Or are post-2008 Ninjas less fuel efficient?

[coondog]

Using the mode of revisionist theory per the Kawasaki assigned engineers for the torque application assignment with guidelines covered beforehand, post generation ninjettes have .05 less mpg below 45mph and .1 less mpg over 55mph. There were/are discrepencies and even animosities amongst the engineers covering the 45-55mph zone which they now refer to as the "**** or get off the pot" zone. Trully and benevolently, your momentary benefactor Thee Coondog.

[bluefire1914]

Coondog,

You are nuts.

But I think I like you.

Cheers

[Reddoak]

Originally Posted by bluefire1914

Boom King (or anyone else),

What is the typical mpg you're getting?

I've heard anywhere from 49.1 (which is terrible in my opinion), to as high as almost 70. . . I know it depends on what type of driving you're doing. .

I'm looking to primarily be doing around-the-town driving. On my 2006 Ninja, I remember getting about 70 mpg doing the same type of driving. Granted, I only weigh about 135 and I know that has something to do with it.

But can I expect about the same mpg? Or are post-2008 Ninjas less fuel efficient?

On my 2008: I weigh over 200 pounds, had a trunk mounted on mine, and occasionally rode 2 up with an 80-100 pound kid (he got bigger!) It was shimmed with 2 washers, stock jets. I rode it like I hated it, generally full throttle as much as possible, bouncing between 7,000-12,000 rpm. Mostly city driving...

I still averaged between 55-60 MPG on any given tank. I think the lowest I hit was low 40's once, the highest was in the high 60's.

[bluefire1914]

Originally Posted by Reddoak

On my 2008: I weigh over 200 pounds, had a trunk mounted on mine, and occasionally rode 2 up with an 80-100 pound kid (he got bigger!) It was shimmed with 2 washers, stock jets. I rode it like I hated it, generally full throttle as much as possible, bouncing between 7,000-12,000 rpm. Mostly city driving...

I still averaged between 55-60 MPG on any given tank. I think the lowest I hit was low 40's once, the highest was in the high 60's.

Wow, that is great! I hope I can expect that.

I'm debating whether waiting for a cbr250 to come in (about a month or so), or to go ahead with the Ninjette.

I'm leaning towards the ninja, mainly because of looks (that cbr looks very conservative, a couple steps up from a scooter, I think), and also because I have some experience with the Ninja and I loved it. (I had a 2006).

[KawiKid860]

Honestly whether you get the CBR250R or the Ninja 250, you'll probably love it. It seems like you're leaning more towards the ninjette so I say go for it, I also say go for a used one instead of paying the dealer extra $$$ for fees and all that.

[rockNroll]

Seems that Honda is missing a large group with the taller bike. There are many 250 Ninja owners here that have stated that they went with this bike because they could reach the ground.

[rusninja]

iv seen scooters that look cooler than the cbr 250 ;]