Need Advice with First Purchase

[AMMOCAN]

Ok, fellow Ninjette members if you read my intro. then you already know what is going on. However, if you haven't yet then I will recap.

I recently received word from the VA on some well needed good and blessed news. What does this mean for me? Well, it means that as soon as the VA issues to me my back pay then I will have a substantial chunk of change to not only catch up on my bills, but finally purchase my first street bike!

I haven't received my money yet, but I have an idea of how much I can spend, so I have been scouting around for both new and used '08 - '10 Kawasaki Ninja 250R SE models. So far my search hasn't landed too many used ones, but I have found a dealer not to far from me that still has one brand new '09 250R SE in stock and then one that is the same just slightly used.

I really need some advice of how to approach the dealer in a way that I will not get screwed over. I have already contacted someone from that shop and right away was given an OTD price, which IMHO was too much. I then started crunching numbers and using the DMV calculator to figure out what I would have paid for it back in '09 and my figures came out to be lower than what they told me.

They originally told me that it would cost me in the upper $4k-low $5K range for this new '09 SE model with warranty. My figures even with putting it at the original '09 SE MSRP went like this:

$4100 - (Original MSRP) +
$119 - (DMV Fees from their Registration Calculator) +
$369 - (Tax Calculated from DMV's Calculator) +
$140 - (Educated guess on Freight and Handling Charge, but have no clue) =
Total Out the Door Price - $4728

Now, of course I told them that this isn't a price I would be willing to pay now, especially since I will not only be paying in cash, but that they have had this in their shop for close to two years. My next response from them was that she received word that they can lower the price. However, they have yet to give me any numbers even after requesting for some.

Does anyone from California know roughly how much a shop pays for the SE model from the manufacture and exactly how much they should be charging for the freight and handling? In your opinion what is a reasonable price to pay for this motorcycle? Should I just try for the other one that is used, but the same model I want, even though it doesn't come with a warranty? If so, what would be a reasonable price for this be? Do you think I would be able to work something out where they hold it for me for a few weeks until I get paid?

Please remember that I am in California and the market here is different than most other places. I have searched for used ones being sold by private sellers, but I always find them asking far too much than what is listed in Kelley Blue Book and when I ask them if they would take a lower price than what they were asking I never get a response back, as I was before that. I also have found that sellers want me to pay for the mods they did to it, but honestly I am not interested in their mods or paying for it, as I would rather have a clean canvas to work with and do my own!

Also, I am a little concerned about buying something that isn't under warranty anymore, as I don't want to end up with a lemon and then spend more in the repairs that ends up costing me in total the same price or more than if I was to buy one with a warranty.

I would appreciate any advice that any of you may have for a first time buyer. Again, I am set on purchasing a '08 - '10 Kawasaki Ninja 250R SE model.

Thanx,

[Alex]

/moved to general; not a tech topic

[Alex]

It's not terribly useful to add up all of the incidentals individually and come up with a calculated price that one feels is exactly right. Buying a bike is a negotiation, just like buying a car, or any other large purchase. The bike is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, no more, no less.

If a dealer has a bunch sitting around they are trying to get rid of, $4400 - $4500 OTD might be the best one could do in California on a new Ninjette, even a 2010 leftover. Here's a link to a thread where a bay area dealership was selling new 2010's for $4495 OTD back in December. If they are not in a rush to get them off the floor, it might be closer to $5000 or even more OTD. SE's are always a smidge more. The only difference with SE's is the paint scheme / sticker scheme.

[Animal78]

I would skip the se and just get one in a solid color.

If you have to have that color and dont want used, your going to pay for it. i would be shocked to see you get out of there for much less than 4400 otd.

[AMMOCAN]

Sorry for posting this in the wrong forum, thought I had it correct. Thanx for moving it!

@Alex thanx for the 411. However, even though I know it is all about what someone is willing to pay for it, I still would like to know what a reasonable fair price would be, as I am not even sure how much or how little the dealership would be making. Do you know how much it actually costs them to purchase it and then make it ready to purchase? As this would give me a better idea of where I would want to start my negotiation and end it. Also, the shop I am talking about is Tracy Motorsports

@Animal78 I totally understand what you are saying and realize that the only difference is the color, but I am Slime-R and I have to have my slimey green, lol.

[AMMOCAN]

UPDATE:

Ok, so right now I am trying my best to not bust out of my pants with excitement!

I just had one of the best days ever!

A while back I had sent a seller on craigslist and email about the '09 Kawasaki Ninja 250R SE he was selling. He was asking for $4K and we were communicating through email pretty well, but as soon as I asked him if he would be interested in $3K, as KBB for my area had it at $2999 with a max of 3k miles, I never heard back from him.

So, recently I was searching craigslist and I no longer saw it listed, so I sent an email asking if he sold it. He replied back saying 'No' that he just took it off of craigslist because it was starting to get buried and that he was tired of spammers and shady potential buyers. After talking with him some more and even after knowing that I am waiting on the VA to pay me he suggested I come look at it anyways since we live in the same city.

So, I did just that today and boy was I glad that I did! Not only was it everything and more from what he said it was, but it truly was beautiful both mechanically and cosmetically. It has only about 1,200 miles and has recently had a 1k service. To find out he had purchased it and has it serviced at our local Kawasaki shop that I have visited several times over the years and we know some of the same people.

To make it short and sweet he agreed to hold onto it for me until I get paid, as he is in no hurry to sell it and isn't hurting for money. We then agreed on what I feel is fair and reasonable terms, which is that I will meet him half way and pay $3500, as long as he hooks me up with the lowest possible bill of sale, so that instead of paying the DMV the amount it would cost me in tax I would go ahead and pay it to him instead.

So, I am now stuck waiting for the VA to pay me and then seeing if this gentleman is a man of his word. After talking with him and then being invited to his house to check out his new cruiser and other toys I truly have a good feeling about not only him, but the whole deal as well. I don't want to get my hopes up too much, as I know anything could happen, but I can't help but be extremely excited that my search for my new Slime-R may be finally over.

I was initially worried about buying used and then not having a warranty, but after spending some time with the gentleman and the bike I was put at ease. This guy was an older gentleman and was very enthusiastic and passionate about not only riding, but about knowing that I am wanting to ride too. He takes great care of all of his motorcycles. Being a beginner, he gave me a lot of pointers today and I think once I get paid not only will I have a new bike, but a new friend and fellow rider as well!

[coondog]

being a beginner, the one point no one told you is start on an inexpensive stock "used" ninja and until you can snatch the keys stay off of brand spanking new. Good luck with whatever you do man, but you did pick the right bike.

[Ninjamomma]

I bought a brand new 2010 Ninja 250r for $3,999 - but out the door with about $800 in TTL and crate fees (i think that is what it is called) - But I live in Texas - cost of living is a little lower. Although, Craigslist used Ninja's (like the one you are looking at) are at the $3,500 amount, so this is a good deal.

Concerning buying a very used bike because you're a new rider (from a reply on this thread) - This is my first bike (9 months old) and my thoughts are, I am a little more careful because it is new. Hopefully you have taken the motorcycle riding course. I learned so much that I can't imagine beginning to ride without it, because as a new rider, our reflex is to slam on the brakes when confronted with obstacles - instead of maneuvering around it. I recently did this reflex, but at least found out you slide straight (and then maneuvered around).

I went back to a big parking lot to practice maneuvering at higher speeds than what is taught in school. Makes a big difference. Always think ahead and look way, way ahead and you will have soooo much fun you'll have to wear depends (adult diaper).

I pray your money comes soon!

[Live2ride]

I'm sure, if you buy a new bike, that you can get it for less than that. I just received a response from a local dealer selling it for $4100 otd and that's before any haggling.

[Havok]

I got my 09 SE at the end of last summer. I got it new and an otd price of 4k. The price was so reasonable I didn't bother haggling.

Look for smaller dealers rather then the huge hundreds of bike dealers. The smaller ones will want to move old inventory more as they want to reduce there working capital so they can bring in new models.

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by AMMOCAN

They originally told me that it would cost me in the upper $4k-low $5K range for this new '09 SE model with warranty. My figures even with putting it at the original '09 SE MSRP went like this:

$4100 - (Original MSRP) +
$119 - (DMV Fees from their Registration Calculator) +
$369 - (Tax Calculated from DMV's Calculator) +
$140 - (Educated guess on Freight and Handling Charge, but have no clue) =
Total Out the Door Price - $4728

Thanx,

Thats too much in my opinion, I bought my 2010 bike for that much and that was in 2010. Getting a bike that is now 2 years old should be hell of a lot lower than that. I'd look else where.

[AMMOCAN]

Thanx to everyone who has left a post. However, it seems that most of you have missed or skipped my updated post.

I am no longer considering or interested in buying from the dealer, as indicated in my updated post, I was able to find a used '09 Kawasaki Ninja 250R SE with 1,200 miles for $3,500. This may be too much for some, but considering my area and the fact that the seller took great care of it and originally purchased it and serviced it at our local Kawi dealer, I think it was a great deal for both of us. The seller also agreed to hold it for me and is going to cut me a break on the 'bill of sale', so now I am just waiting on the VA.

[nattygirl]

i got my 2010 SE in April, 2010 for $4500 OTD. So I definitely think the $4700 quote is way over priced. You can do way better, especially if you're looking at a 2010 and not a 2011. I bought mine from Temple City Power Sports. At the time, they had a promo going on, $4100 OTD for regular 250's and $4500 OTD for the SE. I'm sure they could still match that if you still want to go new.

*** Sorry, was posting this while you were making your post. Good luck on the used sale.

[AMMOCAN]

Thanx nattygirl.

[Blackwidow]

Originally Posted by AMMOCAN

Thanx to everyone who has left a post. However, it seems that most of you have missed or skipped my updated post.

I am no longer considering or interested in buying from the dealer, as indicated in my updated post, I was able to find a used '09 Kawasaki Ninja 250R SE with 1,200 miles for $3,500. This may be too much for some, but considering my area and the fact that the seller took great care of it and originally purchased it and serviced it at our local Kawi dealer, I think it was a great deal for both of us. The seller also agreed to hold it for me and is going to cut me a break on the 'bill of sale', so now I am just waiting on the VA.

sheeesh! sooooorry! lol

thats a good price...california always has higher prices for bikes cuz we get to ride all the time, so they take that into consideration.

BTW...whats a VA?

[AMMOCAN]

Thanx Blackwidow.

The VA = Veterans Affairs

[Sailariel]

Ammocan, You could probably get away with the seller writing you a bill of sale for $2990. The March, 2011 issue of Motorcycle Consumer News lists the 09 for that amount. True, CA prices are out of sight. My 08SE with a Corbin Seat, ZG Windshield, Telescoping mirrors, 15T sprocket, and complete service records is for sale at North Country H-D, Honda for $2800. It has 12,000mi on the clock. Hope the VA comes through for you. They took their time with me. I am a 100% service connected Vet.

[slolane]

Cali as well as many other areas are always crazy priced.

As far as the Bill of Sale, as long as it's notarized it can be priced at whatever here in MD, $500 for instance. The 2 of you write it up, go to a bank together and have them witness the signatures, easy!

Good luck with the VA, hope you get your loot and the bike soon.

[Yasko]

Does it hurt more when you drop a $4000 bike???

[Too40gawlf]

Originally Posted by Live2ride

I'm sure, if you buy a new bike, that you can get it for less than that. I just received a response from a local dealer selling it for $4100 otd and that's before any haggling.

Check your PM, Bud.

[AMMOCAN]

Thanx for the post, info., and for your service to our country sailariel. Yes, the VA does like to take their sweet a$$ time.

Thanx slolane for sincere wishes and info.

Yasko, I am not sure that it would physically hurt more if you drop a $4k motorcycle, but it may hurt your pride more than anything, as you think about how much you paid and then now possibly have to spend on repairs.

I am already expecting to drop it, as I figure that is part of learning. However, I don't want to drop it and will try my best not to, but if it happens then I will not be too upset about it. Instead I will try to figure out what bone head mistake I made to drop it in the first place, so I can hopefully learn not to do that again.

My reasoning for this is because if I stress myself out about dropping it, then I will be too focused on that instead of actually learning how to enjoy riding it efficiently and safely. I mean after all the bike and its hundred of parts can be replaced a lot easier than my own body parts, so I would hate to cause more injury to myself than needed all because I was afraid of dropping my motorcycle. I have heard of a lot of riders getting hurt on more occasions from trying to stop their bike from dropping than from them getting into an accident while riding.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by AMMOCAN

Thanx to everyone who has left a post. However, it seems that most of you have missed or skipped my updated post.

I am no longer considering or interested in buying from the dealer, as indicated in my updated post, I was able to find a used '09 Kawasaki Ninja 250R SE with 1,200 miles for $3,500. This may be too much for some, but considering my area and the fact that the seller took great care of it and originally purchased it and serviced it at our local Kawi dealer, I think it was a great deal for both of us. The seller also agreed to hold it for me and is going to cut me a break on the 'bill of sale', so now I am just waiting on the VA.

I didn't miss that you found a used one I was saying I think 3500 is too much to pay with out mods.

It is your money though and no matter how you spend it you will love the bike! These bikes of ours are far to unapreciated by too many people. I will keep my 250 or have a 250 as long as I can physically get on it. Not to say I won't have a bigger bike at some point just won't get rid of the 250 lol.

[HKr1]

So your outta the army in 2007, and still waiting the on VA

[AMMOCAN]

Originally Posted by HKr1

So your outta the army in 2007, and still waiting the on VA

Yes, you are correct HKr1! However, I am not waiting on the VA for my C&P claim, as being given a disability discharge that was taken care of right away. I am currently waiting on the VA for my CH 33 education benefit payment, which was something I just applied for in Mid-Jan. and received approval on Mid-Last week. I am now waiting for them to verify my enrollment with my University and issue out my payment.

[Sailariel]

Ammocan, You mentioned that you expect to drop your bike at some point--part of the learning curve. You have been fed some stuff that is all wrong. Not EVERYBODY drops or crashes their bike. If you believe that, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Take an MSF Course, ride conservatively, and use your head. You are an Army Vet. Army Vets have had the training to avoid that sort of stuff. Give that some thought. Alex, N Co 75Th Rangers, Vietnam, 68-70.

[AMMOCAN]

@Sailariel HooAH my fellow Army Vet.! Thanx again for your service. Yes, you are absolutely correct about the Army Vet. reference. No one has fed me to believe anything, and I don't believe that everyone drops/crashes their bikes. I am also not saying that I am absolutely sure that I will. I am just assuring myself that if it does in fact happen then it will be alright. No reason to stress over the small things! Just pick yourself and the motorcycle up, learn from your bone head mistake and FIDO.

Yes, I plan to take my MSF course sometime in March, and will be sure to be a sponge. It has been my experience that people tend to stress and work themselves up over the small things, thus making the situation that much more dangerous. I have found that preparing yourself mentally through mental training and visualization techniques allows you to win half the battle right there. You have to be prepared for all possible outcomes in any situation (situational awareness), thus after doing so all you are left with is focusing on the task at hand.

I'm not saying this works for everyone, but for me it does and it hasn't let me down yet.

[peachdiddy]

I love my 09 SE. But I'd have to say that they're asking a bit much. I found mine last April in Brother's Motorsports in Baxter, MN. I called around till one of the Kawi dealers had something unique. It just so happens, that's the bike I had in mind. I talked directly with the sales manager. They were eager to sell it. That being said, they charged me $3,800 for the bike with 2 miles on it. I got the 4 year GTPP, tax, title, license, and they also let me finance $5-$600 in gear. You just have to find the right place that's going to take care of you. It took me some checking around, and it will for you too.

As for waiting for your backpay, ouch man. That sucks.

And as far as expecting to drop it, I did too. So I did, in a dumb, dumb mistake. Thankfully two small cracks able to be hid by stickers were all I sustained, and no personal injury. Just take it slow.

[Sailariel]

I am afraid that with gas prices escalating, that the 250s will again be flying off dealer's showrooms and will hold their price. Last year, when gas prices went down, there were lots of used Ninjas available at dealers. One that stands out in my mind was a pristine Black 250 with 450 actual miles on the clock. It was priced at $3000. It sat at the dealer for two months along with a couple of others. I doubt that would happen now.

If this summer will be as nice as last summer--I will de-comission one of the cars.

[coondog]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

sheeesh! sooooorry! lol

thats a good price...california always has higher prices for bikes cuz we get to ride all the time, so they take that into consideration.

BTW...whats a VA?

sarcasm, right?

[coondog]

Originally Posted by AMMOCAN

Thanx Blackwidow.

The VA = Veterans Affairs

great bike and great deal, especially as you can ride year round and all. i'm gald everything turned out for you man. ride on.

[AMMOCAN]

@ peachdiddy Thanx for the post and tip. I am glad to hear you are enjoying your motorcycle and came out alright with the mistake you made.

@ Sailariel You are absolutely correct! Here in California, with the overall generous weather and the high gas prices, motorcycles especially the Kawasaki Ninja 250R are a hot item and the Dealers and private sellers know this! Now, living in the Northern part of California we do tend to get more rain, wind, and overall colder weather than the Southern part of Cali gets. However with the ongoing economy crisis and rising gas prices the weather in my area doesn't seem to have had an affect on the demand for purchasing a motorcycle, especially during this time of year.

Through my efforts and research, the dealers and even private sellers have stayed firm or very close to their original asking price, as they seem to be very confident that they will get it. For the dealers in my area I am sure they will, as they continue to stay in business despite the current status of the economy and continue to get the new models each and every year. It is my belief that because demand is so high and the availability in my general metro area is so limited that the private sellers go off of the dealer's unwillingness to haggle price, thus limiting the opportunity to haggle with them, as they know that you would only be paying more for it if you were to try and get it any where else in the area.

Before going to check out the '09 Ninja 250R SE (that I have currently made a deal to buy) from a private seller, I checked with the other private sellers, who I had previously inquired about, to see if they had sold their motorcycles yet and if they would be interested in negotiating with my previous offer. However, all but the one who I have currently made a deal with have said they have already sold it. So, they obviously got what they were asking for it or a lot more than what I was wanting to pay for it. This is why I jumped at the opportunity to make the deal that I did, as I know that in my area the seller is at an advantage, especially given my special circumstances.

Now, does this mean that I would have paid an ungodly more than I should have? No, because if that was the case then I would have just settled and made a deal with the dealership. However, I do admit that I am paying a few hundred more than I would have originally liked to have paid for my first 'used' (but new to me) motorcycle. However, after checking out the motorcycle and talking with the original owner I deemed it worth paying the few extra hundred dollars to not only get the motorcycle that I wanted, but to get it from someone who has taken care of it and who is willing to hold it for me until I get paid.

In my area, both NADA and KBB have this model valued at $2990 and that is with an average of 2800 miles and not accounting for the SE color scheme. This motorcycle has only about 1200 miles, all service records from our local shop, garaged kept, no accidents, one owner, fender eliminator, and upsized gears. Original owner was asking for $4k and my original offer was at $3k, but after meeting with him and checking out the motorcycle we agreed to meet half way at $3,500. So, all and all I think we both got a fair deal out of it, but having him willing to hold it for me was the best part of the whole deal, as no one else would have done that for me of course unless it was a dealer, which would have had me paying a lot more!

@ coondog Thank you! However, I am still waiting on the VA and even though I have kept in contact with the seller it is still yet to be seen if he keeps his word. Hopefully, he does and once I get paid and pay him for it, then I will be sure to post pictures.

[Yasko]

You'll love that bike...Coagulation to you...Be Safe!!!

[AMMOCAN]

Thanx Yasko.