suspension tweaks

[gizmogamez]

Hey guys, I'm looking to add to my track time with my 250 and was wondering what kind of suspension adjustments others had made?
I'm thinking new springs in the forks and a thicker oil to stiffen the front, but am not sure about raising the rear.
I was told to ask about if the bike shims/dogs?

any help would be great!!!

[almost40]

I found the stock suspension is not to bad if your smooth.

[kkim]

I am usually a suspension freak with any vehicle I own. The best approach would be to fix what isn't "right" first. So, ask to yourself, what is it about the suspension on the 250R that needs correcting/work to make it better for you.

Changing something just to change something is not a good approach... working to fix a problem or deficiency is.

I'm with Kevin... I find the suspension adequate for my riding at the moment.

[gizmogamez]

well I have nothing else to compare it to, a friend of mine who has been doing track days for years and is friends with many of the "pro" riders was saying that I should do the front spring and oil thing and raise the rear a little to help aid in faster turn response and that it would allow me to go into the corners harder and come out straighter (with less lean) and there for faster...

since I need a new shifter peg from crashing anyways, i was thinking I would just put woodcraft rearsets on over the winter and a Hindle exhaust (they use hindle on the tracks rental 250's and it sounds great!!!!), I also need to remove my sidestand since I already wore half of it and the exhaust cover off lol.

maybe my friend is just thinking of this from to much of a 600SS view????

[kkim]

like I said, you need to set up the bike for you. are you a "pro" rider?

The whole point of improving the suspension is to make the bike and rider feel like they are working together and not fighting each other in situations that the road/track demands.

you need to figure out what it is that needs fixing for you to feel more in tune with your bike and then in turn fix or focus your attention to that deficiency.

I'm not saying your friend is wrong, but listening to generalizations on what the hot setup is, may or may not work for your particular bike and riding style.

so I ask you again, what is it that needs fixing with regards to suspension/handling on your bike when you were on the track (before crashing )?

[almost40]

Kelly is right on here.
The only real mod that NEEDS to be done is the rearsets and kickstand mounting tab removal. Before you spend a ton of money on fixing what doesnt need fixed. Maybe a few more trackdays and some good instruction is in order. I am not a pro, but I can hold my own. (and some of theres too) I feel you should work on your riding style and get it perfected long before you start tearing up the stock suspension. That way you will be able to tell weather you suspension work is good or bad.

[Snake]

If you lower the front with blocks from roaring toyz you will in a sense lift the rear giving you better cornering and it does not affect the suspension travel.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by gizmogamez

well I have nothing else to compare it to, a friend of mine who has been doing track days for years and is friends with many of the "pro" riders was saying that I should do the front spring and oil thing and raise the rear a little to help aid in faster turn response and that it would allow me to go into the corners harder and come out straighter (with less lean) and there for faster...

This is a technique thing, it has noting to do with your suspension.
Getting farther off the bike and in the proper cornering posture allows you to stand up the bike a little more for greater entry and exit speed.

[gizmogamez]

thx guys. I've got a 3 day track weekend coming up at the end of aug. I'll try and pay more attention to the things you have asked (i wasn't really looking for them before).

[kkim]

I envy you living close to a track and getting track time.

have fun and ride your own race.

[gizmogamez]

well i don't know about "close" it's a 3 hour drive lol, but last time was my first time out and I'm hooked now lol

[almost40]

Originally Posted by gizmogamez

well i don't know about "close" it's a 3 hour drive lol, but last time was my first time out and I'm hooked now lol

I know the feeling. I quit riding on the street and stripped down my bike for the track.

Get a few more Trackdays under your belt. I will be running Intermediate group on my next trackday weekend and will do it with the stock suspension. Practice being smooth. All out speed has nothing to do with being fast. Good entry speed and exit speed while being smooth will go a long way to getting you good lap times. I have passed many a 600 cc bikes in novice just by being smooth. Smooth = Fast.

[Broom]

i would assume that doing the springs and oil in the forks and leaving the rear stock might cause an unbalance in the bike.

at your next track day, figure out who at the track (vendor) does suspension work and chat with them after you've done a few sessions. tell them you have stock suspension that you're thinking about improving in the future, but for now you're feeling this or having a hard time here. they'll be able to give you sound advice, check out your bike and help you make a few adjustments... most likely for free in hopes that when you do decided to rebuild your forks or pick up a shiny new shock that you do it through them. which i highly recommend. a good suspension guy can be your best friend.

do a search on your local racing forums or on the track day site and see who people are recommending for suspension work.

[ROADandTRACK]

Sorry, but I disagree w/ some of these guys above.

I'm answering this question in racer mode, so if you are just doing TD's and riding around this will not apply. If you are trying to get faster, why not setup the bike properly 1st (it is safer), instead of just changing what you feel is wrong. If you don't know what's right in the 1st place how can you change it. Otherwise you wouldn't ask this question.

FYI - the stock suspension is no good unless you are less than 120 #'s or so. Even then it can be made much better. The best thing to do is add springs and emulators in the forks and don't follow the racetech instructions for the comp or reb holes. I'm not going to tell you what needs to be done because I'd be shooting myself in the foot. Also, believe it or not some forks need different things done to them, even if they are the same forks.

The rear you should get a shock w/ adj. ride height. Works/Elka etc. and setup for your weight. This way as you get faster you won't get caught out and crash because you did something the stock suspension could not handle.

No offence to the above folks. I'm just talking about racing and trying to go fast.

[Broom]

hey Keith, what would you have to say about someone doign the springs and emulators in the front and (temporarily at least) leaving the rear stock?

PS: need to get your forks rebuilt with emulators, springs and the right weight of oil? put them in a rifle case that you can buy at walmat and send them to Road and Track suspension. dude knows how to set these bikes up.

[ROADandTRACK]

Probably feel a little heavy compared to ideal, but it would be less likely to crash.

[almost40]

I have no doubt that you can improve on the stock set up. The way I read it, the guy has only done 1 trackday or weekend and he laid the bike down. It sounds to me like its a rider thing, not a suspension thing. My thoughts on the matter was to improve your riding ability before you start messing with the suspension. Im going for my 5th & 6th trackdays in the begining of Aug. I still have alot to learn. Telling this guy to spend hundreds of dollars on suspension work before he has learned how to get around the track smoothly on the stock stuff seems a little like putting the cart before the horse. I would rathers see him spend his money on more track time to become smooth as opposed to having the best suspension set-up.
Hes not racing hes trying to learn.

[ROADandTRACK]

Hence the preface to my post.

Think of it like this:

1. Stock suspension is not very good.
2 Stock tires are not very good.

Why would you want to try and go fast w/ bad tires? Same goes for suspension.

"Ninjettes at speed" is the name if this forum. Imagine trying to go fast on bald tires in the rain. Same thing as trying to go fast on bad suspension. If you ain't crashing, you ain't going fast. lol

Again, I'm talking about going fast or trying to go fast, not just riding around at a TD.

[almost40]

Well I weigh a little over 150 lbs in full gear. I think I go pretty fast on the stock stuff. I do have a new set of tires that Ill have mounted before my upcoming time on the track. (Michelin Pilots 120/60 150/60) I ran the stock 501's for my first 4 trackdays. They worked fine for me until the track was wet. I wish I lived in Texas or California so I could mix it up with some of the guys that race here as a gauge to how much more I need to improve. Here in the Midwest I was the only 250 out there that was making good time. I had no problem lapping other novice guys and gals on 600's and up.
Maybe I just dont know any better, but I didnt have any complaints on the stock suspension. I will be running with the intermediate group for the upcoming weekend and may just get a rude awakening on my speed. Hopefully there will be another fast 250 out there to play with.

[ROADandTRACK]

Its cool, wish you could make it down to Hallett b4 a CMRA race. You could do a TD there and prolly see a few 250's.

[almost40]

I wish, but Texas is a LONG ways away.

[ROADandTRACK]

Hallet is near Tulsa, OK.

Don't know how far that is from you, but it is 10 hrs north for me. We go there 2x a year to race CMRA.

[gizmogamez]

thx for all the points of view guys.
The way I was explained all this was that yes my riding ability or
TD experience is minimal (I only put on ~350km while on the track), that learning to ride with a limiting suspention setup will hinder my ability to get better since I won't be able to learn how my bike could react and how I could push it if It's already to soft.
I wasn't really looking for things that were "wrong" before, but looking back, I did find that the front suspention would fully compress alot of the turns, forcing me to go into them slower then I felt I was could of been able to. This is why I was thinking of the stiffer springs and thicker oil...
I weigh 160 + gear just so it's known...lol
I need to remove my side stand (or what's left of it) before the next TD and also get some rearsets, and an exhaust. I ended up draging then alot on my leans and I wore a hole right through the stock exhaust cover and a good part of the side stand mounting bracket is gone (about half way through the lower hex screw).
I was told one of the advantages to me doing some suspention work would be that I could raise the bike a little giving me more clearence for better lean angles.
is buying a rear shock with ride hight adj. the only way of raising the back end?

[kkim]

what position is the rear shock preload in? if the softest, raising it would prevent the rear end from sagging as much as a softer setting would allow.

front end can be dealt with using stiffer springs, heavier fork oil or more fork oil volume. You can also preload the springs using spacers instead of changing to a higher rate spring.

actual internal valve changes can be made using emulators or having a suspension shop rework the valving specs/holes in the internal fork metering valves.

the end result should be something that works for your weight and riding style as well as the speeds anticipated for the track you're planning to be on.

[gizmogamez]

thx kelly,

The first day I was out I have the preload on 3, but half way through the day raised it to 4 and then 5 and found it felt like my bike was sticking to the road a little better.

[kkim]

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Front_suspension_upgrades