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Old September 22nd, 2020, 09:26 AM   #1
ssrsupermoto
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Let me get some opinions

I have a 2004 ninja 250. I have done every conceivable mod there is and I am more then happy with the performance. I don’t like how loud the muzzy system is. I don’t notice it much riding solo, but riding with a passenger the passenger cardo constantly picks up the exhaust noise and plays it through the Cardo Comm system. So I like the low end power the 2 to 1 system gave me and I don’t want to give that up, so I was think about getting a 750cc or 1000cc stock Kawasaki or suzuki muffler and using that instead of the muzzy muffler. In my head using a stock muffler from a much bigger bike will still be “high flow” for a small 250cc bike and still be quieter. What do you guys think, I have a very skilled welder so that’s not an issue.
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Old September 22nd, 2020, 09:35 AM   #2
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Have you taken apart muffler to see if it need repacking? That might be all you need. I prefer to add more fibreglass than shown here (and looser packed) so it fills entire space between centre tube and outer casing: https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Repacking_a_Muzzy


One variable across all mufflers is internal volume. I suspect Muzzy single muffler doesn't have as much volume as 2 factory mufflers. Straight-through design also dampens less noise than 3-chamber muffler that makes exhaust go back and forth through baffles.

So what you want:
  • muffler with larger volume than current Muzzy
  • 3-chamber design rather than straight-through. Simple way to check is look through centre and you shouldn't be able to see light at other end.
  • ideally easy to disassemble to replacing packing material, but you can always drill out rivets and re-rivet to assemble.


Be careful about upsizing too much as that may let too much noise through. Perhaps single muffler from EX500 would work.
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Old September 22nd, 2020, 09:49 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Have you taken apart muffler to see if it need repacking? That might be all you need. I prefer to add more fibreglass than shown here (and looser packed) so it fills entire space between centre tube and outer casing: https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Repacking_a_Muzzy

(SNIP)
If it's not a new muffler, chances are it needs repacking. The fiberglass packing gets hard and covered with carbon deposits after a while, and can no longer dampen the sound.

I've repacked a couple mufflers, and have always noticed a big difference.

The most noticeable was my Derbi GPR 75cc 2-stroke with an Arrow system. It was obnoxiously loud and sharp when I got it, but after repacking was just slightly obnoxious.
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Old September 22nd, 2020, 10:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Have you taken apart muffler to see if it need repacking? That might be all you need. I prefer to add more fibreglass than shown here (and looser packed) so it fills entire space between centre tube and outer casing: https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Repacking_a_Muzzy


One variable across all mufflers is internal volume. I suspect Muzzy single muffler doesn't have as much volume as 2 factory mufflers. Straight-through design also dampens less noise than 3-chamber muffler that makes exhaust go back and forth through baffles.

So what you want:
  • muffler with larger volume than current Muzzy
  • 3-chamber design rather than straight-through. Simple way to check is look through centre and you shouldn't be able to see light at other end.
  • ideally easy to disassemble to replacing packing material, but you can always drill out rivets and re-rivet to assemble.


Be careful about upsizing too much as that may let too much noise through. Perhaps single muffler from EX500 would work.
Repacked with 2 pounds of Area P packing less then 200 miles ago. Do you guys think a stock Ninja 400 muffler would flow decent on a 250?
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Old September 23rd, 2020, 06:14 PM   #5
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haven you looked at some of out el cheapo muffler threads? me and danno did some. best bang for the buck and they r cheap and not too loud. i did some sound test too.
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Old September 23rd, 2020, 06:57 PM   #6
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Actually, those are straight-through mufflers are quite loud. I got meatballed at Laguna Seca even with dB-killer noise-insert installed. I've removed el-cheapo muffler from my street-bike and put factory muffler back on.

I like his idea of re-using OEM muffler. Just matter of finding one and grafting it on. Maybe Ninja 300 muffler?

Here's an example of really good OEM muffler from Honda CBR250R:

It has 3 separate expansion-chambers. When exhaust expands rapidly from tubing end, that removes lots of "bang" energy from it. Larger volumes will allow for more expansion and more noise-reduction. Along with 2.5 reversals and most of noise is removed without causing too much restriction.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; September 23rd, 2020 at 08:07 PM.
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Old September 23rd, 2020, 11:14 PM   #7
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Here’s Ninja 300 muffler. Notice similar 3 expansion chambers with couple reversals along way.

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Old September 23rd, 2020, 11:20 PM   #8
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Here’s muffler from ZX-6R



It has larger tubing and only 2 expansion chambers of much, much smaller volume. It will be quite loud to use muffler like this.

It’s actually designed that way. Because target audience wants loud exhaust. So just because muffler came from larger bike, doesn’t mean it’ll be quieter than Muzzy on smaller bike.

With modern computer-design using CFD software, mufflers are finely-tuned for bikes they’re used with. No longer do you have to compromise power for quietness. They’re optimised for perfect pulse-tuning for maximum-power while removing maximum noise from exhaust
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Old September 24th, 2020, 03:04 AM   #9
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i have one i can send ya and try out. up to you.
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Old September 24th, 2020, 06:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick9611 View Post
i have one i can send ya and try out. up to you.
How much shipped to Zanesville Ohio 43701
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Old September 24th, 2020, 06:10 AM   #11
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It’s not that I want a dead quiet exhaust I like a little noise, I just want to take the edge off the loudness so the passenger’s Cardo stop’s picking up all the exhaust noise.
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Old September 24th, 2020, 06:20 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
(SNIP)
With modern computer-design using CFD software, mufflers are finely-tuned for bikes they’re used with. No longer do you have to compromise power for quietness. They’re optimised for perfect pulse-tuning for maximum-power while removing maximum noise from exhaust
I saw an exhaust system test on a new R1 where the aftermarket system made less power than the original.

Check the diameter of the inlet pipe on the muffler you are considering and compare it to what you have so you don't need to come up with a complicated adapter. Slightly larger on the replacement muffler would be the best. The same dia pipes would mean you need to have a coupler of some kind.
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Old September 24th, 2020, 07:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssrsupermoto View Post
It’s not that I want a dead quiet exhaust I like a little noise, I just want to take the edge off the loudness so the passenger’s Cardo stop’s picking up all the exhaust noise.
You were asking for quiet end-caps for Muzzy. Perhaps make one yourself from some of these inserts?

https://www.ebay.com/i/222190529373
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Old September 27th, 2020, 01:44 AM   #14
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You are on the right track. A muffler from a newer bike of much bigger CC will produce a much lower back pressure, so would not steal top end performance. Image a 600/1000 engine pushes out a much larger volume of exhaust gases than a 250. So sending 250 volumes out one of their mufflers would not be restrictive. The only consideration would be size & weight.
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Old September 28th, 2020, 10:32 AM   #15
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I ordered one of these, Size is correct for the bottom of the muzzy. For six bucks and change its worth a shot. I will post a pic if it works.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Old September 28th, 2020, 12:51 PM   #16
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Bottom? You mean inlet of muffler or outlet?
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Old September 28th, 2020, 12:55 PM   #17
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The muzzy has a curved outlet, so it would have to got in the inlet.
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Old September 30th, 2020, 12:05 PM   #18
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pm sent. el cheapo muffler to ship tomorrow. we on?
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Old September 30th, 2020, 12:22 PM   #19
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maverick9611 Sorry if there was confusion, I was looking for a stock muffler.
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Old September 30th, 2020, 12:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Bottom? You mean inlet of muffler or outlet?
I put the DB killer in the header/link pipe and drilled and put a bolt in it. It quieted it down by at least 40%. Now it is tolerable even at 80mph at 10k rpm. Not bad for six bucks and change. Also yes I put the Muzzy muffler back on, I would not ride around open header.
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Old September 30th, 2020, 12:33 PM   #21
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ok no problem.
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Old September 30th, 2020, 02:20 PM   #22
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Awesome job!!!
I'm going to make one last effort on my el cheapo muffler and enclose end of DB-killer insert to force all flow through lateral-holes. Having straight-through insert doesn't seem to do much.

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Old September 30th, 2020, 02:32 PM   #23
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ain't nothing like hearing a tyga full system at 13000 rpm. 😉
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Old September 30th, 2020, 02:51 PM   #24
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ain't nothing like hearing a tyga full system at 13000 rpm. 😉
I don’t want to hear it that loud on my 5.5 hour trips lol.
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Old October 1st, 2020, 12:00 PM   #25
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[QUOTE=DannoXYZ;1275553]Awesome job!!!
I'm going to make one last effort on my el cheapo muffler and enclose end of DB-killer insert to force all flow through lateral-holes. Having straight-through insert doesn't seem to do much.


Did you notice a bump in bottom end power when you installed your DB killer. To me I picked up a noticeable amount. Maybe because there is a little back pressure now.
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Old October 1st, 2020, 02:41 PM   #26
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On pre-gen, mid-range increases with both 2-1 exhaust & DB-killer.

On my new-gen, I already had 2-1 exhaust for more mid-range. Adding el-cheapo exhaust improved high-end as it eliminated restriction of factory muffler+catalytic. Adding straight-through DB-killer without closed end really didn’t change anything, noise or pulse-tuning.

I’m going to extend DB-killer with 10cm more perforated tubing with closed end. I think that’s going to be limit of exhaust mods (Tyga exhaust made most difference). Next up would be head-porting and bigger valves.
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Old October 1st, 2020, 03:11 PM   #27
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ain't nothing like hearing a tyga full system at 13000 rpm. 😉
I must be getting old! Found myself complaining about young whipper-snappers other day. What’s next? Get off my lawn???

I try to ride everyday get to track every other weekend. Loud exhausts tends to be tiring. I find I’m fresher at end of Sat. if I have quiet exhaust. Which puts me in better shape to learn and improve on Sunday.
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Old October 2nd, 2020, 05:09 AM   #28
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I must be getting old! Found myself complaining about young whipper-snappers other day. What’s next? Get off my lawn???

I try to ride everyday get to track every other weekend. Loud exhausts tends to be tiring. I find I’m fresher at end of Sat. if I have quiet exhaust. Which puts me in better shape to learn and improve on Sunday.
Amen brother. I used to look for the loudest exhaust when I was in my early 20's now mid 30's I cant stand it.
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