Quick!! Close the Barn Doors... the Horses (Donkeys) Have Gotten Out!!!

[sombo]

A couple of nights ago I was getting onto the highway. There were two other bikes getting on as well in the right lane while I was in the left (the on ramp had two lanes). One was a guy in what looked to be decently full gear on a dual-sport. The other was a couple on a cbr both in jeans and t-shirts and not much else. As we go around the loop to get on the highway they both out accelerate me and go pretty quick into the loop with the cbr being in front. Halfway through the loop I see the cbr drift over into the left lane and go off into the grass while hitting the brakes.

All I could think about was how immature the driver was by trying to be macho and ride (what I believed to be) above his skill level. I don' know if they went down and I hope they didn't. However, I hope it was enough to scare some sense into them.

If you're going to choose to ignore safety gear then I suggest you ride extra-cautious to make up for it. An accident at any speed with no protection is going to be extremely painful and more devastating then if you have gear on to take at least some of the damage instead of your body.

[Anthony_marr]

Somehow, I doubt that the charge would be "Riding without protective gear".

[Alex]

Perhaps rear tire tread below the legal limit?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Alex

Perhaps rear tire tread below the legal limit?

dunno... looks fine to me.

[Banzai]

Originally Posted by Alex

Perhaps rear tire tread below the legal limit?

There's a tire in that picture?

[kkim]

sure is... right below the bumpers.

[krazygluon]

Ok, the first time I read this thread, I went through a "Damn safety nannies" torrent of thoughts. Rather than flame out I decided to be calm, proactive and reread.

I'm almost completely ATGATT, with small exception that there's a limited access 40mph road on which I've ridden motorcycle and bicycle sooooo many times that I know the road like the back of my hand. Even then I wore helmet, gloves, pants and boots, but on a recent ride in 94 degree heat, I chose to throw my jacket under the cargo net and take a short ride with a friend who just got a bike. I was fine, he was fine, nothing happened.

Karma and natural selection aren't going to punish the undergeared for wearing tank tops, shorts and flip flops.

What they will do is dispatch with individuals who have a predisposition for risky behavior.

Squids aren't squids because they didn't wear gear. The lack of gear just just one of several hints of the behavioral patterns that lie beneath. There are plenty of bikers who don't wear **** for gear and ride for 40 years without major incident...A good many of them own cruisers, and a sociological analysis of them would probably do all of us a bit of good in diminishing our predispositions.

If you want to manage risk when riding (and I think everyone here is trying to push that message, albeit some with the blind faith of the church of atgatt)
your priorities should be more like this:
0) Assess your tendency to be impulsive and get into dangerous situations without knowing first how to get out. Consider whether you value your life or your risks more.
1) Start small (not necessarily smallest, but small) The Hurt study does actually put a high number on wrecks with small displacements compared to larger ones. This hints that even 250's get into wrecks. Liter bikes just have a tendency to cause more lethal wrecks when a noob is behind the wheel of both sizes of bike.'
2) TRAIN (Good training will prevent far more lethal accidents than gear will protect you from)
3) Gear up as well as you can afford. (Great gear is great, but any gear is better than none, and #2 still outranks #3.)
4) Retrain regularly (saying that you wear $3k of gear and took the BRC doesn't mean **** 5 years later unless you practice those emergency stops, do the box a few times, test your sight through corners, etc) always consider the ERC. In fact you're probably better off buying 1500 in gear and spending the other 1500 in continuing education over your lifetime in ERC's, police cycling courses (which sometimes open up to civvies) and so on

[CC Cowboy]

No turd signals

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by Anthony_marr

Somehow, I doubt that the charge would be "Riding without protective gear".

Not to make this the butt of any jokes but,

Maybe the carbs were recently shimmed and they wanted the best possible butt dyno evaulation with nothing between the butt and the bike to alter the results.

Whose to say the gstring isn't made from leather or some abrasion resistant textile?

[almost40]

Had many bikes, rode many miles. Got hit by a car in a parling lot les than a mile from my house and didnt walk for a month. I had road rash from my shoulder to my ass. That was when only the rich people had cell phones and no one ever heard of texting while driving. I was young and thought I was invincible. I was, right up till the point where that bumper on that 79 malibu station wagon pinned my knee between itself and my FZR 600. Wear your gear, dont wear your gear. I dont care. When you post pictures of your road rash and the cast on your leg. Dont say I didnt warn you.

[sprale]

I used to wear leather on my old Supercub! I'll sometimes go without to check the bike after working on it, riding around my very quite and secluded block. If I'm going anywhere else, it's ATGATT. If I can do it in Central Texas hitting 107°, there's no one with an excuse I buy. I have shifted away from all black gear to silver/light grey, with amazing results. As for heat, anything about 90° is all the same to me. I just take routes that don't require frequent and extended stopping.

[Chamus57]

I am a believer in ATG ATT now and am trying to talk my friends that ride cruisers into doing the same, but they insist on the half shell, t-shirts, shorts, and sneakers during the day, because of the heat so they say, and only wear jeans and boots at night. What really amazes me is that most of them have kids. I don't get it. I do admit i wore jeans and skate shoes the first 100 miles but that was before i found this site and because i was like them on my cruiser. I have noticed that most of the people i see on street bikes are in full gear but i do see the guys with shorts, white beater, and sneakers fly by me on the freeway from time to time and that everyone on a cruiser around here has little to no gear on besides a half shell helmet. I am very new to riding a sport bike. I do stupid things sometimes which i hate to admit and have been very lucky that i have not laid her down and was kinda the same on a cruiser but not as bad. I am really trying to be a responsible rider and have put a lot of thought into it. I am thinking about buying a Harley and turning the Ninja into a track bike. If i do i will be wearing a full face helmet and all the gear on the cruiser. Most of them give me the one finger salute as it stands now so i really don't care what they think. I can only be responsible for myself and those around me from now on and attempt to inform others on the need for ATG ATT and being a responsible rider.

On a happy note that picture and the comments made me spew my drink all over the monitor.

[capt_bugaloo]

Ride your own ride. The best you can really do is to set a good example and hope that others follow it.

[andrewexd]

Im not a gear nazi, people will learn when they fall or crash. It's not really that hot in LA and yet I would say 75% of people do not wear a jacket and 90% do not wear pants other then jeans. Admittedly I don't have a pair of pants yet but im looking... I have some knee sliders though.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Whose to say the gstring isn't made from leather or some abrasion resistant textile?

What g-string? You can see a g-string?

Without photographic proof, it doesn't exist.

[emt250]

So far i've been riding without riding pants or riding boots. I've just been using jeans and a pair of hiking boots. I realize its been pretty stupid and irresponsible so I'm going to look around in earnest and see what I can find.

If i can find anything reasonable at my local cyclegear i'll get it but if not i'll buy something online and cross my fingers. My only issue is that clothes/shoes never really fit me well. With shoes the issues is that i have really wide feet and I usually cant find any regular shoes that fit me well.

If I buy online I was thinking about getting some draggin' jeans or something with similar abrasion resistance, and then buying some t-pro strap on leg protectors so I'd have good protection and not have to worry about having armor included in pants not fitting properly. Any thoughts?

Ultimately I just need to suck it up and put in the time and money to make sure that if and when I go down i'll at least have taken some good precautions to keep myself safer. It is, afterall, my life and my health.

[Anthony_marr]

Originally Posted by emt250

So far i've been riding without riding pants or riding boots. I've just been using jeans and a pair of hiking boots. I realize its been pretty stupid and irresponsible so I'm going to look around in earnest and see what I can find.

If i can find anything reasonable at my local cyclegear i'll get it but if not i'll buy something online and cross my fingers. My only issue is that clothes/shoes never really fit me well. With shoes the issues is that i have really wide feet and I usually cant find any regular shoes that fit me well.

If I buy online I was thinking about getting some draggin' jeans or something with similar abrasion resistance, and then buying some t-pro strap on leg protectors so I'd have good protection and not have to worry about having armor included in pants not fitting properly. Any thoughts?

Ultimately I just need to suck it up and put in the time and money to make sure that if and when I go down i'll at least have taken some good precautions to keep myself safer. It is, afterall, my life and my health.

Any motorcycle store would have a full range of protective gear available. I strongly advise checking out every accessible store and buying where you can try the item on. Depending on the style and construction and make, the same size will fit differently, and more important, feel differently. According to my own buying experience, once I tried out the item, if it is the right one, my body would tell me about it. This buying online cannot do. Happy shopping.

[ironglory]

I can believe till i saw them riders in PA. Me & wifee had a date & we just cant help but cringe at the sight of local riders, sport or cruisers, from minimun to no gear at all. From short pants to sneakers & just a bandanna sometimes. Though it made me think of leather bandanna's. Wonder if they'd sell? hmmmm

All I can do was just drive as far away as I can.

[emt250]

Originally Posted by Anthony_marr

Any motorcycle store would have a full range of protective gear available. I strongly advise checking out every accessible store and buying where you can try the item on. Depending on the style and construction and make, the same size will fit differently, and more important, feel differently. According to my own buying experience, once I tried out the item, if it is the right one, my body would tell me about it. This buying online cannot do. Happy shopping.

I've looked at most of the stores around here and the pickings are pretty slim. A few jackets, and not a whole lot else. Cycle gear has a lot, but a ton of it is frank thomas, and I have no idea what the quality of that is.

Anyways, I would much rather buy something I could try on, but if nothing else at least a lot of online stores (newenough, motorcycle superstore, etc) have pretty decent return policies.

[noche_caliente]

Let me post a ref from KF as a testament to ATGATT... this poor guy was not ATGATT and wishes he were:
http://www.kawiforums.com/newbie-cor...ease-read.html

[muffinman]

Originally Posted by noche_caliente

Let me post a ref from KF as a testament to ATGATT... this poor guy was not ATGATT and wishes he were:
http://www.kawiforums.com/newbie-cor...ease-read.html

Nasty. I remember that thread.

...but yeah, he's an amputee because he rode like an asshat pushing 100mph on local roads and downshifting like a lunatic.. NOT because he wasn't ATGATT.

He could've worn a full titanium suit but it would've only been a matter of time before he f'ed himself up

[Banzai]

Originally Posted by muffinman

Nasty. I remember that thread.

...but yeah, he's an amputee because he rode like an asshat pushing 100mph on local roads and downshifting like a lunatic.. NOT because he wasn't ATGATT.

He could've worn a full titanium suit but it would've only been a matter of time before he f'ed himself up

Agreed. 100%, no doubt. Even the titanium suit would not have helped him with the way he was riding. All the gear in the world would not have helped him, as hard as he hit. Speed, mass, and inertia are absolutes, and as fast as he was going in the short space, well, bad things were bound to happen. This was not a case of poor road conditions or visibility, he was WAY beyond his skill level and experience.

That thread is 45 pages where 90% of the posts are sympathy and only 10% calling him out for the self inflicted misery. Pathetic. If something uncivilized happens to you while you're being uncivilized, you own it.

He paid his money, he knew the risks, he took his chances.

If you think that's cold, calous, or harsh, think about it just one more time the next time you stroke the check for health insurance or vehicle insurnace. (Self inflicted) Incidents like that on motorcycles are very common, and THAT is a HUGE part of why your rates are as high as they are!!!!!!!!!!

AND that's why you're being targeted by the police for additional inspections, traffic enforcement, and roadblock stops!!!!!!!!

Hopefully, though, it will serve as an object lesson to others. And "YES", the 250 WILL go fast enough to kill you, or worse.

[Sailariel]

When I first started riding in 1958, I was fortunate enough to have had a part time job at our local Triumph,NSU,Ducati Dealer. The owner was also a road racer. At that time Langlitz Leathers were the way to go along with Bell Helmets (Magnum) I always liked the look and the feel of well fitting leathers. Right now the kit that I could afford is a River Road Leather jacket, pants, and boots. My helmet is a top of the line HJC. Eventually, I would love to get an Aerostich Transit Suit. I gear up every time I ride. The worst crash I have ever had was two years ago when I hit a round pebble on a steep descent in a bicycle race. My weight was too far forward, and I went down at 40+MPH. I had road rash over 15% of my body. My helmet was smashed. I also broke my collarbone. I still race, and there is no protective gear for cyclists other than good gloves and helmets. All we have is experience and hopefully good judgement.

[Greg_E]

I find clothing made for riding to be much more comfortable than regular clothes, helps you want to wear something appropriate.

I also see lots of asshats on the road too.

[Tigress]

I was taking my 16 year old daughter to the mall this past weekend. It was a pretty nice day, so people were out riding. As we exited the highway, a guy was in front of us on a sport's bike in a t-shirt, shorts, and tennis shoes. Daughter asked why do hubby and I always wear jackets, pants and boots when riding because we look hot. I told her we would like to stick around and see her graduate from college and not to mention I want to keep the "girls" scar free. ATGATT

[muffinman]

Originally Posted by Greg_E

I find clothing made for riding to be much more comfortable than regular clothes, helps you want to wear something appropriate.

I also see lots of asshats on the road too.

I agree.. especially pants designed for riding. My ICON kevlar jeans have stretch panels underneath the groin and above the knee that allows me to be in a sport truck riding position for more than 5 minutes without them riding up my crotch. Love the airflow from the stretch panels as well.. keeps the goodies and my legs nice and cool.

[Sailariel]

Kelly, I really appreciate your effort in educating sport riders to be safe. Your DIYs are absolutely superb and totally trump Kawasaki`s Shop manual. I do hope that your dedication does not take its toll on your health (It`s the Medic in me) I do think that you have made a HUGE impact on the Ninjette.org family--and have in all probability saved some lives. The reality, however, is that most of the people riding Ninjettes are convinced that they are riding a "Beginner`s Bike---which in my opinion, is totally untrue. That 250 is a rocket any way you look at it, and I blame the press for hawking it as a "Beginner`s Bike". We are also dealing with an age factor. People in their 20`s are immortal. I learned that lesson very fast as a Sergeant team leader/medic in Vietnam. Pity, the reality of the situation did not bear out that notion. Kids got killed--and no amount of medical training (of which I had the best) changed that equation. Kelly, I respect you a hell of a lot. Just for grins and giggles, allow me to throw out a circuitous question. How come a person cannot walk into a dive shop and buy all the necessary SCUBA and just go out diving? No way this will happen, unless you are certified by an accredited diving school--NAUI or PADI. Sounds pretty responsible to me on the part of the diving industry. Next year I will be allowed by the VA to set up a business. I am located in a commercial zone--so setting up would be no problem. I plan to take Kawasaki as my main line. The territory is wide open in my location. In order to buy a Sport Bike from my dealership a person will need to show me evidence of having passed a Motorcycle Safety Course, and a reasonably clear driving history. e.g. Five speeding tickets in three years would not be acceptable. I would bet that with this policy published, I would not be able to stock enough bikes to sell. Responsible salesmanship is the key. I am going to give it a shot. My sense is that I will be extremely sucessful. All of us make a difference if we choose to. You have made a difference in many people`s lives on this forum---including mine. The idea of starting a RESPONSIBLE dealership came largely from your ideas. It WILL happen.

[Tigress]

^^^^^^ It's changes like those Alex that would make motorcycling better for everyone. Good luck with your shop!

[ninjabrewer]

Originally Posted by Tigress

I was taking my 16 year old daughter to the mall this past weekend. It was a pretty nice day, so people were out riding. As we exited the highway, a guy was in front of us on a sport's bike in a t-shirt, shorts, and tennis shoes. Daughter asked why do hubby and I always wear jackets, pants and boots when riding because we look hot. I told her we would like to stick around and see her graduate from college and not to mention I want to keep the "girls" scar free. ATGATT

Since I started riding, talking about it and taking my daughter to cycle shops, she has also started pointing out the individuals riding without gear, and making the same comments that I have. Although her mother has decreed that her baby will NEVER get a ride on my bike, she has made comments in the past to wanting to get one. But she is getting the education about gear already. One reason I have never taken her for a ride is I don't have gear for her, other than the decree from SWMBO.
The only time that I ridden without all my gear was right after I changed the oil, I took my bike about 1/2 mile down a side street wearing just my work pants, which are my old ACU pants, t shirt, helmet, gloves and tennis shoes. I felt more naked then than at a nude beach.

Originally Posted by Sailariel

Kelly, I really appreciate your effort in educating sport riders to be safe. Your DIYs are absolutely superb and totally trump Kawasaki`s Shop manual. I do hope that your dedication does not take its toll on your health (It`s the Medic in me) I do think that you have made a HUGE impact on the Ninjette.org family--and have in all probability saved some lives. The reality, however, is that most of the people riding Ninjettes are convinced that they are riding a "Beginner`s Bike---which in my opinion, is totally untrue. That 250 is a rocket any way you look at it, and I blame the press for hawking it as a "Beginner`s Bike". We are also dealing with an age factor. People in their 20`s are immortal. I learned that lesson very fast as a Sergeant team leader/medic in Vietnam. Pity, the reality of the situation did not bear out that notion. Kids got killed--and no amount of medical training (of which I had the best) changed that equation. Kelly, I respect you a hell of a lot. Just for grins and giggles, allow me to throw out a circuitous question. How come a person cannot walk into a dive shop and buy all the necessary SCUBA and just go out diving? No way this will happen, unless you are certified by an accredited diving school--NAUI or PADI. Sounds pretty responsible to me on the part of the diving industry. Next year I will be allowed by the VA to set up a business. I am located in a commercial zone--so setting up would be no problem. I plan to take Kawasaki as my main line. The territory is wide open in my location. In order to buy a Sport Bike from my dealership a person will need to show me evidence of having passed a Motorcycle Safety Course, and a reasonably clear driving history. e.g. Five speeding tickets in three years would not be acceptable. I would bet that with this policy published, I would not be able to stock enough bikes to sell. Responsible salesmanship is the key. I am going to give it a shot. My sense is that I will be extremely sucessful. All of us make a difference if we choose to. You have made a difference in many people`s lives on this forum---including mine. The idea of starting a RESPONSIBLE dealership came largely from your ideas. It WILL happen.

Alex, the diving industry is self regulated, (at least that is what I remember) I learned that many years ago when I was learning to dive. I think the certificating agencies got together and decided a few things. I got certified almost 20 yrs ago, but due to life changing events, ie marriage, baby, college, etc etc, I haven't been diving since I left upstate NY in '91. ( I tried to go while I was in LA (Lower Alabama) many years ago, but hurricanes kept interrupting my plans.)

As for the bike shop, good luck and I hope you make a successful go at it. But, and it is a small but, what you want to do is admirable, and I respect that, but let me ask this. You mentioned the territory is wide open, how far will it be to another dealer? Somebody who wants a bike could go to another dealer or buy a used one. Although when they express an interest in a bike, I'm sure you will ask the appropriate questions and give them the appropriate info as to why you have that policy in effect. As to being successful with that policy, I can't say. It will make every potential customer think for at least a minute and some will already be convinced that "it's not cool" to wear that and nothing will convince them otherwise. Some,(like I did,) hopefully most or all, will listen and take the advice, do further research and look stuff up on the internet. They will then learn more of the what's, why's and responsibilities of riding a motorcycle.

nb

[andrewexd]

Originally Posted by Greg_E

I find clothing made for riding to be much more comfortable than regular clothes, helps you want to wear something appropriate.

I also see lots of asshats on the road too.

yeah, I dont even know how people wear t shirts, its cold ! even in the summer. whatever, If it weren't for squids there would be no hilarious videos on youtube !

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Sailariel]

NB, Chris, I am not out to get rich. I am retired and quite comfortable. I love bicycles and love to work on them. I also love motorcycles and will learn to work on them--until then, I will hire a competent mechanic and learn from him or her. I have a shop, so overhead is no big deal. Why not have a bicycle/motorcycle shop? I have a problem with the ethics in this country--so I can`t blame the kids. A person can walk into a boat dealership, plunk down the appropriate dollars and ride off with a 40` 1200HP Cigarette Boat with four Corvette engines and zero training. He can walk into a Ford dealership and buy a Shelby KR-500 with a learners permit. My nephew recently bought a ZX6R with a learner`s permit! His father said, "He is doing his own thing." There are no bad kids--just bad parents. Somebody needs to stand up and say "ENOUGH" and actually do something about the problem. I am totally cognizant of the fact that what I do may or may not make a small impact. I do not for one minute think that I will turn the tide, BUT there are people like Kelly, Alex, yourself, and others in the Ninjette Family that are fed up with the carnage and "Big is better" mentality, and that anybody with little to no experience can ride a 180MPH machine. That has to change. It is only very recently that people (some) in the US have discovered what Europeans and others have known all along--A 250 is a serious bike. Maybe our gasoline prices need to hit $6.00 a gallon to drive that point home. End of rant. N.B. I didn`t answer your question. The nearest Kawa dealer is 50 mi away.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

To bring this thread full circle. I was on our local bike forum (yes, all bikes are welcome there) and I read this thread and thought everyone here would appreciate it.

Last year, before I purchased the Tuono, I was in love with a yellow 2007 GSXR-1000. Ended up getting the Aprilia instead as it was my "dream bike."
That same yellow 07 GSXR1k has sat at Cycle City here in Newnan since then. Every time Id go in the store, Id drool over it, still thinking it was one of the sexiest bikes Id seen.
Well, she sold last week. A 21yo kid bought her as his first bike.
I saw him at a local gas station on Saturday with the bike already scraped up along with some scrapes on his leg. ***Note that he was wearing a tank top, shorts and tennis shoes!!!***
He told me that he had dropped it twice already since buying it last week. I told him it was a shame that a bike that I lusted after for so long, was damaged in her first days on the road. Oh well..I thought to myself...not my bike. I did, however, advise the guy that he really should be wearing some gear..."not telling you what to do, but its the smart, prudent move." He explained that its way to hot for gear. I zipped up my suit and headed out on the Tuono.
Well this afternoon (Monday 22d) I get a call about a motorcycle accident here in Newnan. Guess who???? Same guy...same yellow GSXR1k. Only this time the bike is totally destroyed as was he. We found a white powdery substance on the ground (approx 2inches wide...6 inches long) that we later found out was where his knee cap scraped and ground down. Also found several bits of flesh on the rear passenger pegs and one attached to where the subframe broke in two.
Oh....he was wearing a tee shirt and a pair of shorts and tennis shoes.
Based on just that, you can imagine what the rest of him looked like.
He's alive (not quite sure how), but he aint doing so well.
Reason for the wreck (best educated guess), he was closing WAY fast on another vehicle, hit the front brakes and locked it up, tucked the front and the rest is history.
I mentioned in a post a week or so ago that yeah, the decision to wear gear is yours, but this is the kind of stuff I not only hate, but get tired of seeing.
Please be careful out there!!!!!

You quoted this right? It's a little confusing without quote tags or quotation marks.

Anyway, assuming that it is quoted and is not your personal perspective, let me just say that it sounds like it's from the Newnan bicycle cop that I talked to last year while checking my chain slack (apartments near the court square). He kept talking about his Aprilia and some GA Sport Bikes forum that I never could find online. I tried to find it but I think he was actually talking about a Yahoo group (I found some posts of his in one) but it wasn't a real forum and was way too frustrating to bother with. Is that where you found this post? Are you a fellow Newnanite?

[k1prototype]

I'll throw in my 2 cents. I am currently 27 and am still in university so I can give some insight as to the mindset of most college aged kids.

You have to consider the fact of immaturity. No matter how much you preach no matter how much you provide examples, the immaturity (and testosterone) of most people under 25 cannot be overcome with logic. For most people in that age group, your sense of logic doesn't become really prevalent until you get older and wiser. Not just when it comes to motorcycling but life in general. How many people actually listened to their parents when they were teens let alone when they hit their twenties regarding bad friends, bad girlfriends, wasting money, partying too much, and not taking life (and school) seriously.

I know I am definitely guilty of this myself, not only when it came to not listening to those who have gone through life, but also the specifics as well such as ATGATT.

There are many things with life in general I regret doing that could have been avoided if I had just listened to the people who were there to give me advise. But I needed to experience those pitfalls to make me realize the error of my ways.

When you are young you think you are invincible PERIOD. You think "that old person can't relate to me, and their advise isn't worth listening to." Same concept goes for motorcycles, the logic to wear gear doesn't hit home for many people in that age group until they get into an accident. Let alone the logic that a 600SS or 1000SS bike is ridiculously fast and scary for a inexperienced rider. Its like giving a 21 year old a Trans Am. I know, I had one, and am lucky to still be around considering all of the dangerous situations I put myself into.

Another part of it is also comfort and aesthetics. I know I look weird and get looks coming out of my office in the morning (i work overnight) wearing my motorcycle pants that swoosh when I walk with the rest of my all black gear especially as people are coming in with business attire.

I myself am guilty of deciding to only wear jeans instead of the motorcycle pants on occasion. But I noticed myself missing my motorcycle pants after I had to send them in for a warranty claim. Now I don't want to ride without them. That sense of logic didn't kick in until I experienced riding without them after experiencing riding with them. In all honesty I don't think that logic would have developed in my mind if I was younger. The pure aesthetics of the situation would have averted me from ever buying motorcycle pants.

Unfortunately that is the reality of the fact. I know for the older and wiser members on this board, that is a hard thing to understand. But I feel it is the truth. Many teens and people in their twenties will not take wearing gear seriously until something happens to them due to that mindset that that it can't happen to them. For some even that will not help them develop the sense of logic needed to understand the concept and importance of ATGATT.

[LazinCajun]

I'd also like to point out that gear protects from the elements and can make rides *more* comfortable.

Also, for the "I'll just ride carefully" crowd, I've read 2 separate accounts of people getting angry wasps in their non-motorcycle shoes while riding. I've seen a video of a bird taking off from the side of a road and smacking a rider square in the chin at 65 mph. I'd like to know how to ride carefully enough to avoid a getoff in those situations

When I went to buy gear from the local dealership, the old-time rider who was helping me was actually discouraging me from buying riding pants. It really is a cultural problem in the industry, and I think getting new riders on board with atgatt is a good way to start to change that.
Posted via Mobile Device

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by k1prototype

I'll throw in my 2 cents. I am currently 27 and am still in university so I can give some insight as to the mindset of most college aged kids.

You have to consider the fact of immaturity. No matter how much you preach no matter how much you provide examples, the immaturity (and testosterone) of most people under 25 cannot be overcome with logic. For most people in that age group, your sense of logic doesn't become really prevalent until you get older and wiser. Not just when it comes to motorcycling but life in general. How many people actually listened to their parents when they were teens let alone when they hit their twenties regarding bad friends, bad girlfriends, wasting money, partying too much, and not taking life (and school) seriously.

I know I am definitely guilty of this myself, not only when it came to not listening to those who have gone through life, but also the specifics as well such as ATGATT.

There are many things with life in general I regret doing that could have been avoided if I had just listened to the people who were there to give me advise. But I needed to experience those pitfalls to make me realize the error of my ways.

When you are young you think you are invincible PERIOD. You think "that old person can't relate to me, and their advise isn't worth listening to." Same concept goes for motorcycles, the logic to wear gear doesn't hit home for many people in that age group until they get into an accident. Let alone the logic that a 600SS or 1000SS bike is ridiculously fast and scary for a inexperienced rider. Its like giving a 21 year old a Trans Am. I know, I had one, and am lucky to still be around considering all of the dangerous situations I put myself into.

Another part of it is also comfort and aesthetics. I know I look weird and get looks coming out of my office in the morning (i work overnight) wearing my motorcycle pants that swoosh when I walk with the rest of my all black gear especially as people are coming in with business attire.

I myself am guilty of deciding to only wear jeans instead of the motorcycle pants on occasion. But I noticed myself missing my motorcycle pants after I had to send them in for a warranty claim. Now I don't want to ride without them. That sense of logic didn't kick in until I experienced riding without them after experiencing riding with them. In all honesty I don't think that logic would have developed in my mind if I was younger. The pure aesthetics of the situation would have averted me from ever buying motorcycle pants.

Unfortunately that is the reality of the fact. I know for the older and wiser members on this board, that is a hard thing to understand. But I feel it is the truth. Many teens and people in their twenties will not take wearing gear seriously until something happens to them due to that mindset that that it can't happen to them. For some even that will not help them develop the sense of logic needed to understand the concept and importance of ATGATT.

I, too, work a graveyard shift and walk out of the office in my gear while others are arriving in formal office attire. I must admit though, trying to get every minute of sleep I can after the sun goes down but before my graveyard shift begins often results in me not having enough time left to throw on the riding pants before departing to work. Even worse, they are uniform pants and not jeans. Luckily I work ~7 minutes away (less if I'm lucky with the lights) on a 35mph surface street (there are no freeways or highways on my route) and there is no notable traffic. I really need to stash a spare pair at work for the morning ride home for the all too common occurrence when I end up coming to work without my riding pants... or at least stash a spare pair of knee pads.

[untdavid]

I love wearing gear. People can't help but stare because it's Texas and 100 degrees out. I've had people in the gas station say, "Isn't it alittle hot to be wearing a jacket".

My wife loves me in gear and she loves wearing gear. She thinks it makes me look sexy and buff. I love her in gear because it really outlines her curves. But, most important it protects us. Everytime I see someone not wear gear it makes me wonder if they do it out of ignorence or because they believe they look "cool" without it?

David

[Anthony_marr]

Originally Posted by k1prototype

No matter how much you preach no matter how much you provide examples, the immaturity (and testosterone) of most people under 25 cannot be overcome with logic.

I've always thought that the safe-driving programs I've seen are all way too soft. Often using, yes, logic, and even if graphics were used, they'd look more like a Hollywood made-up scene - just a couple of people in a smashed up car with some catchup on their pretty faces and seemingly peacefully asleep. The viewers' "sensitivity" have been taken into full consideration. There is no punch or cutting edge whatsoever. Frankly, when I was a new driver, looking at those pics, I was not at all impressed, and drove like every other testosterone propelled kid in town.

Until one day, when I had a chance to look into some real police files of MVAs, and then, finally, I was duly shocked. The victims did not even look human. They looked like a pile of clothing folded haphazardly...

Still, I don't want to post any of these pics openly here, for fear of offending sensitivities. But here are a few links to a real-world fatal motorcycle accident. Warning: Do not look right after lunch. But they should work where logic falls short.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...cidents_10.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...cidents_11.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...cidents_12.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...cidents_14.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...cidents_17.jpg

[OldGuy]

Anthony your links remind me of the movies they used to show us in drivers ed class back in the late 50's early 60's. It did impress 99% of us but there was always that 1%. Today it is not politically correct to show graphic results like that and most kids will claim that it wouldn't happen to them.

As for Kareem's well written input I'm sorry I just don't buy it. It is your opinion and I respect that. But from my perspective we have two problems with "youth" today. 1) Far too many had a friend growing up and not a parent. As a result they still haven't learned that there are consequences for their actions. 2) As for having to "learn the hard way" - as a parent you might be comfortable letting them do that if we're talking about dating, school, money decision, etc BUT NOT THEIR LIFE.

The hardest part about being a parent is having to say no and enforcing the rules you've laid down. It's called being an adult.

[Nemesis]

I didn't read everyone's post...just the OP's. I don't know if this is a repost but have you guys seen this?

Ouch!!!

Hope you can see the pics.

[noche_caliente]

Nemesis, post it up like you did there:

...especially if you have a passenger on!

http://www.ex-500.com/index.php/topic,19460.0.html

Quote:
So. I'm going to try to be direct and straightforward in hopes that anyone who reads this will learn better than I seem to have learned. I made many, many mistakes in the course of this story and I'm aware of them all. If you want to flame, flame away, but I'm already sick over what happened and just don't want it to happen to anyone else.

I had my first wreck Thursday night. I had a passenger, which changed the handling of the bike, and I wasn't careful enough. A turn snuck up on us in the dark, and I ran out of lean and lowsided at about 35 mph. We were just going around the corner for a burrito; no gear, no helmets. (not even going to begin to rationalize any of this. Like I said, this was all a result of many bad decisions on my part, and I completely accept that).

I'm sure we only slid for a second or so but I remember it vividly. The bike threw up a storm of sparks, she landed on me and we went over and over. I remember every time she came over me, I was trying to keep her off the asphalt. Then everything stopped and was silent, and the sickest single moment of my life occurred as I thought "I've killed a person. I've killed her." Then time started up again and she started crying. I called my friend from around the corner who took us to the hospital, where I sat with her for 8 hours while she got checked out.

The damages: I've lost lots of skin. I mean, lots. I've never hurt this badly in my life. It was just skin and I'm uninsured, so I thought "I'll take care of it myself." and declined admission to the ER. Scrubbing it out without morphine is the single most painful 30 minutes I've ever felt.

As far as she goes: she's pretty damn rashed up. Probably worse than me. She split her head open over her eyebrow, and it's swelled her eye shut. Two inches to the left and she would have died instantly. She came down hard on her hip and knee, and can't bend them for the swelling. Her x-rays came back clean, so no broken bones. She's medicated, safe at home, and never wants to see me again. I wouldn't either.

Listen up kids. When you ride 2-up, you take somebody's life in your hands. You had damn well better be prepared for that responsibility. I've spend quite a bit of time today sitting on the floor of my room sobbing that I'm such a jackass that I almost took a life. I took responsibility for another person and failed miserably. It's the sickest feeling in the world and I want to spare you all from it. I would give anything in my entire life for the last two days to have never happened.

Pictures below for the strong of stomach, in hopes of scaring you all into being wise. I would accept this unblinkingly as a damn good warning, had I been alone. But someone I care about is in even worse shape, and I am 100% responsible. I never wanted to know what that feels like.

All but the last photo were taken in the hospital bathroom while she was being x-rayed.

Right arm:
Click this bar to view the full image.


Left arm. This one bled for 10 hours:
Click this bar to view the full image.


Left hand. Note the missing skin. By now, 2 days later, it's peeled back about another half-inch around the abrasion:
Click this bar to view the full image.


Left leg. These were my good, heavy pants. They lasted about 6 inches:
Click this bar to view the full image.


Shoulder to waist. If you look closely, you can see all the buttons ripped out of the shirt and I dragged on that side. There's gravel so deep on my pec that I'll never get it out:
Click this bar to view the full image.


At home:
Click this bar to view the full image.


The nurse sent extra stuff with Catie so I could get cleaned up too. What she didn't send was the several vials of morphine that Catie had in her when then scrubbed her out. Tylenol isn't the same. I screamed, threw up, and passed out cleaning these. And the whole time I'm dealing with the fact that I knew better and was in control, and I did this to somebody else who did NOT have control. Day 2, and it's not any easier to live with.

I tried to be completely frank about how I'm feeling in an effort to make the truth set in on you guys. I was a literal 2 inches away from killing her, because I thought we didn't need gear to go 5 blocks, and because she liked the thrill of leaning and I wanted to impress her. Nobody's impressed now.

y'all will have to click over to see the pics, I don't want to copy them over here... but I do disagree with one thing the OP said there, he was not 100% responsible. He shouldn't have allowed her to ride that way, much less doe it himself, but she had free will in choosing to get on that bike with him, and free will in doing so with no protective gear