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Old August 9th, 2016, 07:12 AM   #1
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Warning very graphic crash!

This is why you dont backpack with idiots... the poor girl most likely lost her foot because of this idiot! Please ride with care when you have a passenger!!!

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Old August 9th, 2016, 07:49 AM   #2
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easy solution, don't run red lights...or at least look before you do

in terms of the actual crash, that sucks but it kinda is what it is. All of that could have and should have been avoided

"Did you not see us coming?"...THEY HAD THE RIGHT OF WAY!
also, in that situation the less screaming and panicking the better as you want to calm the injured person down as much as possible
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Old August 9th, 2016, 08:24 AM   #3
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A few things can be learned from that video.

#1 - obviously, don't run red lights. Seeing the first vehicle pull away from the light should have given him a heads-up.
#2 - learn how to use your brakes. He locked the rear and it started to step out. Full braking with the front may have reduced the impact speed significantly. Towards the end the car had almost stopped and possibly given you room to go around it to the right.
#3 - Gear. In this situation, a good armored boot could have prevented a nasty mangled ankle. Everything else would have paid for itself also.
#4 - Don't ride as a passenger with rookie riders that are riding in a group of stunters.
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Old August 9th, 2016, 09:15 AM   #4
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Old August 9th, 2016, 10:21 AM   #5
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The previous posts are pretty much word for word what I thought as I watched that. Stunting on populated roads. Ran a red light. Didn't/couldn't avoid the car. Lack of gear. Freaking out around the injured person. Blaming the person they ran into.

It's one thing to try to sneak through as a light turns red, and having a car from the other way start quicker than you expected. He hit the second car in the intersection. Looked like he went through at pretty much at full speed too (i.e. no intention of stopping). Slo-mo hindsight is always 20/20, but it does look like he might have been able to avoid it.

While I feel that the pilot of the bike is largely responsible for his passenger, including educating them about being on a bike, I feel that the passenger should also have taken some responsibility for her own safety too. Whether it was due to ignorance or not, she made some bad decisions when she got on that bike. Unfortunately, passengers and others without much experience often don't even know that they don't know, interrupting the education process before it even starts.

It seems lower body gear gets ignored a lot. The upper body is more visible, travels farther to hit the ground, and is more exposed on a bike. But in a lot of accidents, your leg/foot will end up under the bike (or between the bike and another vehicle in a case like this). This video is a great example of why you want riding boots. While any injury sucks, there's a lot of stuff going on in your ankle area that can get severely messed up, even in a simple crash like this one.
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Old August 9th, 2016, 10:27 AM   #6
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The previous posts are pretty much word for word what I thought as I watched that. Stunting on populated roads. Ran a red light. Didn't/couldn't avoid the car. Lack of gear. Freaking out around the injured person. Blaming the person they ran into.

It's one thing to try to sneak through as a light turns red, and having a car from the other way start quicker than you expected. He hit the second car in the intersection. Looked like he went through at pretty much at full speed too (i.e. no intention of stopping). Slo-mo hindsight is always 20/20, but it does look like he might have been able to avoid it.

While I feel that the pilot of the bike is largely responsible for his passenger, including educating them about being on a bike, I feel that the passenger should also have taken some responsibility for her own safety too. Whether it was due to ignorance or not, she made some bad decisions when she got on that bike. Unfortunately, passengers and others without much experience often don't even know that they don't know, interrupting the education process before it even starts.

It seems lower body gear gets ignored a lot. The upper body is more visible, travels farther to hit the ground, and is more exposed on a bike. But in a lot of accidents, your leg/foot will end up under the bike (or between the bike and another vehicle in a case like this). This video is a great example of why you want riding boots. While any injury sucks, there's a lot of stuff going on in your ankle area that can get severely messed up, even in a simple crash like this one.
Do you think a boot would have saved her ankle? I think it would have been bruised or broken, but not completely severed like that! What about riding shoes that have over the ankle support? It looks like to me that she just has tennis shoes on. I wonder if she had ANY kind of riding shoe on would it have saved her?
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Old August 9th, 2016, 10:52 AM   #7
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2 seconds in: "O great stunters on the road, we know how this will end"
7 seconds in: "How about we not skid the bike side ways and create a crush point between you and the car"
The rest of the time: "Why the hell is this camera guy running around like a lost puppy?"
"Umm can we perhaps splint that leg together, Im purdy sure that is better for her in the long run"
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Old August 9th, 2016, 11:01 AM   #8
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First off, I am glad to see you reviewing videos... good or bad.
Second, like I have asked of other veteran ninjette members, for every couple of bad videos you watch, view a good riding video as well.

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Old August 9th, 2016, 11:12 AM   #9
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DUMB. No sympathy for any of the riders in that video. If I showed up to that scene as an EMT, I would be very disappointed.

The entire situation was even handled poorly. Everyone except for one person should have stepped back to talk to her. Get to her eye level, reassure her that even though she is in a great deal of pain, she will be okay and that emergency services are on the way. I wish everyone took an EMT Basic class.
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Old August 9th, 2016, 12:20 PM   #10
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Do you think a boot would have saved her ankle? I think it would have been bruised or broken, but not completely severed like that! What about riding shoes that have over the ankle support? It looks like to me that she just has tennis shoes on. I wonder if she had ANY kind of riding shoe on would it have saved her?
Absolutely, but it would have to be a serious sport or race boot with armor and not just a plain leather riding or work boot.

Anything would have been better than tennis shoes though.

EDIT: That close-up of her ankle near the end of the video is brutal. Hope they were able to put things back together for her. No doubt even if they did it would still be an extremely long and painful recovery, and probably not 100%. When this happen to the rider it's one thing, but it really too bad when a passenger gets the worst of it.

One more thing - at some point you need to realize there is no way to stop completely before striking the obstacle. That's when you need to go to "avoidance mode" and maneuver around it. Stopping may not be your best option anyway. Because he jumped on the rear brake, locked it, and it stepped out, he significantly reduced his options as far as maneuvering. At one point, maybe 10 feet out from the impact, a slight move to the right might have got him the 2 feet on the right that he needed to clear the bumper and avoid an impact. Just something to consider.

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Old August 9th, 2016, 03:01 PM   #11
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As previously stated:
1) Wear protective gear
2) If during a group ride you get fought by a traffic light, stop for the light and if you are with a good group they will slow to allow you to catch up.
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Old August 9th, 2016, 04:15 PM   #12
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Even the hoodlums I used to ride with stopped for redlights
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Old August 9th, 2016, 06:34 PM   #13
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Absolutely, but it would have to be a serious sport or race boot with armor and not just a plain leather riding or work boot.

Anything would have been better than tennis shoes though.

EDIT: That close-up of her ankle near the end of the video is brutal. Hope they were able to put things back together for her. No doubt even if they did it would still be an extremely long and painful recovery, and probably not 100%. When this happen to the rider it's one thing, but it really too bad when a passenger gets the worst of it.
I think it's hard to say that it would have absolutely saved it. I don't see my five hundred dollar supertech r's preventing crushing style injuries or an injury like she experienced.
@JohnnyBravo I could believe that they ran it, they're stupid lol
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Old August 9th, 2016, 07:31 PM   #14
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@nickjpass I know, I would have seen the first car and stopped, or **** slowed down, they definitely were not thinking! I know folks like that though, so I can believe it
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Old August 9th, 2016, 07:51 PM   #15
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Old August 9th, 2016, 08:48 PM   #16
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Old August 9th, 2016, 08:59 PM   #17
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I love being an EMT. Feels good to walk up to a scene like that and just say "Hi, my name is Nick, what's up?" lol
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Old August 9th, 2016, 09:35 PM   #18
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I'm not an EMT (yet, no time til school's done) but I'd still be able to walk up to that scene like that. Guess I'm a bit desensitized to that sort of thing
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Old August 9th, 2016, 10:00 PM   #19
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I'm not an EMT (yet, no time til school's done) but I'd still be able to walk up to that scene like that. Guess I'm a bit desensitized to that sort of thing
Same, I find it rather intriguing. Makes me go "gahhh why does your leg look funny" lol
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Old August 9th, 2016, 10:09 PM   #20
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Same, I find it rather intriguing. Makes me go "gahhh why does your leg look funny" lol
For me it's more like "huh, looks like that hurts a bit but you'll be fine, do you want a splint for that?" *proceed to bitchslap the squid rider after making a splint*
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Old August 10th, 2016, 02:33 AM   #21
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Old August 10th, 2016, 02:59 AM   #22
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For you guys talking about leg splints: are you suggesting straightening the foot out? I don't have much emergency response knowledge, but I imagine that would be incredibly painful and if you did it wrong could do more damage. Or maybe you mean just make something that holds her shin and foot in the position they are already in?

When I saw the damage to her ankle, my thought about what I would do would be to have 2 people with her. One person making eye contact and keeping her calm, informed, reassured and reminding her to stay still. Another person next to her with one hand her body and the other on her damaged leg gently holding her still. When the ambulance arrived I'd let those guys figure out how to move her while doing as little damage as possible.
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Old August 10th, 2016, 04:41 AM   #23
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For you guys talking about leg splints: are you suggesting straightening the foot out? I don't have much emergency response knowledge, but I imagine that would be incredibly painful and if you did it wrong could do more damage. Or maybe you mean just make something that holds her shin and foot in the position they are already in?

When I saw the damage to her ankle, my thought about what I would do would be to have 2 people with her. One person making eye contact and keeping her calm, informed, reassured and reminding her to stay still. Another person next to her with one hand her body and the other on her damaged leg gently holding her still. When the ambulance arrived I'd let those guys figure out how to move her while doing as little damage as possible.
Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing... what can someone who isnt trained do in situations like this?
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Old August 10th, 2016, 04:54 AM   #24
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For you guys talking about leg splints: are you suggesting straightening the foot out? I don't have much emergency response knowledge, but I imagine that would be incredibly painful and if you did it wrong could do more damage. Or maybe you mean just make something that holds her shin and foot in the position they are already in?

When I saw the damage to her ankle, my thought about what I would do would be to have 2 people with her. One person making eye contact and keeping her calm, informed, reassured and reminding her to stay still. Another person next to her with one hand her body and the other on her damaged leg gently holding her still. When the ambulance arrived I'd let those guys figure out how to move her while doing as little damage as possible.
Would just keep the foot aligned and prevent it from being damaged worse. You also got to remember right after an incident is the opportune time to make a quick move, she would be hoped up on adrenaline and not feel a thing. The longer you wait the more realization will come to her and then the pain and blood.
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Old August 10th, 2016, 05:30 AM   #25
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Would just keep the foot aligned and prevent it from being damaged worse.
That's the thing; it was out of alignment... and almost torn right off. I'd only feel comfortable moving that foot into alignment with the leg if I really knew that force and movement required to move that foot would bring more benefit than harm.

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You also got to remember right after an incident is the opportune time to make a quick move, she would be hoped up on adrenaline and not feel a thing. The longer you wait the more realization will come to her and then the pain and blood.
Good point. I guess Nick is right. It helps if lots of people have done an EMT course so we know what to do.
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Old August 10th, 2016, 05:39 AM   #26
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That's the thing; it was out of alignment... and almost torn right off. I'd only feel comfortable moving that foot into alignment with the leg if I really knew that force and movement required to move that foot would bring more benefit than harm.



Good point. I guess Nick is right. It helps if lots of people have done an EMT course so we know what to do.
I will almost always straighten and split, even if it's painful. Sorry.

But the nice part is, you will sometimes feel an immense amount of relief after straightening it. Especially if it's a femur break that requires traction.

The worst part is crepitus - a grating sound or sensation produced by friction between bone and cartilage or the fractured parts.

People have always told me that they can feel the grinding and bones moving around in the process.

Source: I corner work at a race track.
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Old August 10th, 2016, 05:46 AM   #27
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I will almost always straighten and split, even if it's painful. Sorry.
No need to be sorry. I'm just trying to understand what's in the long term best interest of the rider. If it was me on that road and the "straighten and split" approach would likely yield better long term results for me, I say... DO IT
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Old August 10th, 2016, 05:47 AM   #28
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No need to be sorry. I'm just trying to understand what's in the long term best interest of the rider. If it was me on that road and the "straighten and split" approach would likely yield better long term results for me, I say... DO IT
I was apologizing to the victim
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Old August 10th, 2016, 07:00 AM   #29
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I think it's hard to say that it would have absolutely saved it. I don't see my five hundred dollar supertech r's preventing crushing style injuries or an injury like she experienced.
I think almost any boot (that has any amount of height) would have held the foot and ankle together and not let it be completely severed. I'm confident that even a work boot would have restricted the movement that sheared the joint and held the ankle together. There would still have been injuries, but nothing like that.
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Old August 10th, 2016, 07:14 AM   #30
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I'm not an EMT but I've been (lightly) trained in first aid for a couple of jobs.

The first thought I had watching the video was that, in spite of the complete dislocation of the ankle, there was no arterial bleeding. There's an artery that runs down the front of your ankle and into your foot.

If you sever an artery in a crash like this (with apparently nobody around who has any first aid knowledge) you could bleed out and die very quickly.

Also, moving (re-aligning) the girl's ankle before real EMTs arrive with the intention of making it less painful(?) or perhaps just less horrifying to the bystanders runs the risk of breaking the artery at that point.
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Old August 10th, 2016, 07:24 AM   #31
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Also, moving (re-aligning) the girl's ankle before real EMTs arrive with the intention of making it less painful(?) or perhaps just less horrifying to the bystanders runs the risk of breaking the artery at that point.
After renewing my first aid training last year and I thought the same thing. "Immobilize" was the focus. The way a few of us locally were trained, "realignment" is part of treatment, NOT sustaining until properly equipped and skilled medics arrive on site. Moving body parts around that aren't supposed to move can cause more harm than good.
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Old August 10th, 2016, 07:29 AM   #32
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"Immobilize" was the focus
As-in; keep the injured person still?
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Old August 10th, 2016, 07:36 AM   #33
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As-in; keep the injured person still?
Yes mam! As best as possible anyway, it's easier said than done. :\ The way I was trained, there are only 2 exceptions to the "immobilize" rule. Breathing and major blood loss. ie... do what you need to do to keep the person breathing or from bleeding out in minutes. For example, it's well known to NOT remove the rider's helmet, but if they can't breath... then yea, cut/undo the strap (whatever is faster) and remove it so you can help them breath again. And be aware... there is a difference between breathing discomfort and "can't" breath.
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Old August 10th, 2016, 08:20 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Yes mam! As best as possible anyway, it's easier said than done. :\ The way I was trained, there are only 2 exceptions to the "immobilize" rule. Breathing and major blood loss. ie... do what you need to do to keep the person breathing or from bleeding out in minutes. For example, it's well known to NOT remove the rider's helmet, but if they can't breath... then yea, cut/undo the strap (whatever is faster) and remove it so you can help them breath again. And be aware... there is a difference between breathing discomfort and "can't" breath.
I never would have thought about that part!!

the things you learn at random times.

EDIT: I feel like some of us should get together and train a bit on what to do if a fellow rider does go down. Even training on how to properly redirect traffic etc. One of my coworkers went down after being rear eneded by a car and no one was redirecting traffic, thats so dangerous
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Old August 10th, 2016, 08:35 AM   #35
allanoue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360 View Post
I never would have thought about that part!!

the things you learn at random times.

EDIT: I feel like some of us should get together and train a bit on what to do if a fellow rider does go down. Even training on how to properly redirect traffic etc. One of my coworkers went down after being rear eneded by a car and no one was redirecting traffic, thats so dangerous
here is a good thread about that
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...47&postcount=1
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Old August 10th, 2016, 08:57 AM   #36
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Do what I do, check out your local fire department for FREE light first aid and CPR classes. Keep your skills fresh by taking the class again every few years.

Also, many small town fire departments are volunteer. Offer to buy lunch for the class instructor.
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Old August 10th, 2016, 09:09 AM   #37
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I never expected nonjette to turn into an episode of ER
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Old August 10th, 2016, 09:44 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo View Post
I never expected nonjette to turn into an episode of ER
New words:

"nonjette": when something is not ninjette.

"ninjette": when something is friendly, fun and awesome. Often times -- but not-always -- a ninjette thing is also relatively small in size.

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Old August 10th, 2016, 09:53 AM   #39
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I'm not the Blood and guts type
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Old August 10th, 2016, 10:09 AM   #40
ZeroGravity360
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I vomited the first time I saw this video. MY friend shared it with me right after I had BW3s
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