August 30th, 2016, 11:56 AM | #41 |
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I am looking forward to when emotion is taken out of driving by computers. We will have to take it to a track to work out aggressions.
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August 30th, 2016, 12:15 PM | #42 | |
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I'm not a left lane squatter in any way but in situations where big trucks like that come up on my bumper when I'm doing 5 to 10 over the limit already on a two lane road (one each way) I slow waaaaay down just to piss them off. Don't scare me a bit, I'll f**k with them so they can't pass. That's what an asshat gets in my book. |
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August 30th, 2016, 12:19 PM | #43 | |
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I still get mad at left lane blockers, I've been stuck behind them for miles before, but the difference now is that I overcome that anger and frustration and don't make things worse by tailgating. Tailgating would just make me the same kind of asshole that the lane blocker is, and I have decided that I'm better than that now. That's a conscious decision on my part. |
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August 30th, 2016, 12:32 PM | #44 | |
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August 30th, 2016, 12:42 PM | #45 |
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@FrugalNinja250 If you are in that many crashes, you are doing something that needs to change.
They may not be your fault but for survival you need to take a closer look in the bathroom mirror and be less concerned about who's at fault.
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August 30th, 2016, 01:23 PM | #46 | |
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I drive like an ass and I've been in three accidents in 37 years of driving. Rear ended once, hit head on while sitting at a stop sign, and blew a couple tires then rolled a Landcruiser in the middle of the Australian Outback. Not really what you would expect from a road rager. |
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August 30th, 2016, 01:25 PM | #47 | |
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August 30th, 2016, 01:36 PM | #48 | |
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August 30th, 2016, 01:39 PM | #49 |
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Post up your crash videos and we can discuss.
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August 30th, 2016, 01:43 PM | #50 |
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Whatever you are doing to tick off the road ragers and make them hit you for starters.
Road ragers don't start raging until someone does something to trigger them. Why do we keep focusing on the ragers and not the triggers. The triggers share the blame too. Your video of the impact may show the ragers at fault, but I'm sure if we go back far enough in the video to the start of the incident we could see where you could have avoided the incident by not being a trigger. |
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August 30th, 2016, 01:46 PM | #51 |
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Ragers are going to rage. When that happens, I point my phone at them as if I am recording and they calm right down. Pointing a phone at them is more obvious then a dash cam.
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August 30th, 2016, 01:51 PM | #52 |
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I wasn't meaning to imply that you do what I was talking about, just that in general big vehicles don't always scare people and make them move out of the way.
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August 30th, 2016, 01:54 PM | #53 | |
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It will suck for those who like driving, but maybe driving yourself will only be allowed in low traffic areas. |
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August 30th, 2016, 01:55 PM | #54 | |
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That's not true. Ragers rage when something triggers them. In light traffic situations they are no different from anyone else.
http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun05/anger.aspx Quote:
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August 30th, 2016, 02:02 PM | #55 |
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My point is they will rage at a perceived slight. Like a hard brake as trying to short brake them when that was not your intent. I have a subaru eyesight system that will do this and is misinterpreted and the rage is on.
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August 30th, 2016, 02:44 PM | #56 | |
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This. Other people existing on the roads seems to set some people off. |
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August 30th, 2016, 02:59 PM | #57 | |
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Used my turn signals properly (in Texas, 100' minimum before executing maneuver). Maintain minimum 2 second following distance to the next car in front of me. Stop carefully and gently at stop signs and red lights when being tailgated. The fact of the matter is road-ragers trigger on anything, or often nothing at all. They're mentally ill with uncontrollable rage. Maybe they thought my car was the same as their ex who called the cops on them last week. Maybe red is a color that just triggers them. Who knows. All I can do is drive as safely as I can, do what I can to protect the ragers from themselves, and document everything on video so that if a rager truly loses it and hits me I'll have the evidence to back up my story of what really happened. One thing ragers should really be thankful for is that I purposely decided not to get a CCL and start carrying. Both ragers that hit me last year I could have put in the ground, on video, completely legitimately. They both came at my vehicle on foot after the crash with obvious rage on their face and what I believe was the intent to assault me if I got out of my vehicle. |
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August 30th, 2016, 03:01 PM | #58 | |
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August 30th, 2016, 07:00 PM | #59 |
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Link to original page on YouTube. |
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August 30th, 2016, 07:12 PM | #60 |
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Yes. Traffic flows much better if the lanes move at different speeds, and you get in the lane that suits your speed, and stay there.
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August 31st, 2016, 04:07 AM | #61 | |
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August 31st, 2016, 08:32 AM | #62 | |
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Your question is cleverly phrased to get me to acknowledge inadvertently that the reason I've been in more accidents is my fault, not the fault of the road ragers and law-breakers, because I've chosen to obey most laws more thoroughly than in the past. You didn't have to use semantic subterfuge for that, I already know that's part of the problem and if you'd just asked I'd have freely replied so. Let's look at one part of what you perceive as the problem: Traffic laws that seem to make it more difficult for you to drive on our roads. Why are traffic laws designed and implemented? We've had cars in our society for well over a century now. During that century many millions of people have died in auto crashes, millions more injured. Someone dying unexpectedly in our society hurts society as a whole, because they can't work, can't contribute taxes, can't be the doctor to someone's kids, etc. Injured and maimed people also cost our society, in terms of money and lost productivity/contribution toward the success of our society as a whole. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_U.S._by_year Because we all, together, are a society, and because we all, together, paid to build our road system, we all, as a society, have the obligation and the absolute right to dictate how those roads are used so that we can preserve the lives and the health of the members of our society. It's the same basic principle behind why we have laws against murder, burglary, bank robbery, etc. Over the last 100+ years our society, which has often had the highest quantity of scientists and engineers of any nation ever to exist on this planet, has looked at the causes of crashes on roads, and created laws and regulations specifically to make it safer for all members of our society to travel in this country. For instance, laws to regulate intersections created stop signs and traffic signals. Laws to separate pedestrians from road traffic (such as requiring sidewalks and signal-regulated pedestrian walkways) came into being early on. Speed limit laws, direction of travel laws (drive on the right, not the left, etc.) were all set in place as a direct result of studying all the new ways people found to die in cars. In the last century some basic driving safety principles became apparent from study after study. A few of big ones are: 1. Following distances of 2 seconds or more greatly significantly reduce the chance of a crash. Following distances less than 2 seconds greatly increase the chance of a crash. This is because of physics and basic human biology, and no matter how superior a person thinks their reflexes are they cannot avoid the laws of physics or the fact that human meat brains take lots of time to form courses of action and then take them. That's why following distances are regulated or recommended in all states in this country. 2. Speed variance creates crashes. A study I read once said that a speed variance of 5-15mph between an individual and the prevailing speed of traffic, faster or slower, increases the chances of a crash by 500%. Five times. That's really significant. That's why we do traffic studies to set most speed limits*. Those studies determine the speed at which around 85% prefer to drive, add a speed buffer over that, and set the limit at that. For example, a on given stretch of road people mostly driver around 65, add 5 and set the limit at 70. That way the vast majority of people are driving around the same speed plus or minus, and the crashes from variance decrease. 3. Speeds exceeding the capabilities of the road, the car, and the driver's reflexes and training cause crashes. Most roads are designed with a speed in mind. The speed target takes in consideration things like bank angles in curves, sight-lines and visibility from and to intersections, lane widths, pedestrian patterns (Industrial area? Schools and parks? Residential neighborhood?). Driver's licensing requirements and testing, car inspection and design laws, etc. are all designed to reduce crashes. 4. Not letting other drivers know what your intents are makes you more unpredictable and increases the chances of a crash. Face it, we humans are terrible at reading minds, especially minds that are encased in glass and steel cages. Laws requiring turn signal use to let others know your intent, requiring brake lights to indicate you're slowing and stopping, those are all in place so that everyone knows what others around them are planning to do. Turn signals are especially important because humans are terrible at being aware of everything all the time. Not a person alive can guarantee that they've seen every single car that could be affected by their maneuver, so using signals even when you think there's nobody there at least gives the person you didn't see a chance to react. 5. Regulating traffic through intersections reduces crashes and pedestrian collisions. Stop signs, red lights, yield signs, they're not there for decoration. People with green lights take their turn to go, pedestrians enter crosswalks when the signal says to go. Every single person at an intersection is responsible for the safety of every other person there. It's called societal cooperation, and without it we'd have chaos. There are no exceptions. Many of our traffic laws are focused around these principles. People who violate these laws increase the chances of a crash dramatically. There's a reason why there will be over 5 million reported crashes this year, with well over 30,000 fatalities and almost two million injuries. The NHTSA estimates that there may be as many as 10 million more crashes that go unreported. http://www.rmiia.org/auto/traffic_sa...of_crashes.asp People like VaFish increase crashes, deaths, injuries, and property damage every day. They try to blame their victims, but ultimately it's their own bad driving decisions that lead up to the crash. His comment about the lane blocker being partly responsible for being rear-ended is laughable. When, not if, he rear-ends someone he will find out the sad truth about that misconception. Hopefully the person he rear-ends won't wind up like me, a person in his 20's with a fat settlement check in his hand and not a single good night's sleep to be had ever since. Also hopefully the person he rear-ends because of tailgating isn't a CCW that puts a couple of rounds through him. That's because in the world of road rage (and using a vehicle to threaten someone by tailgating them is definitely road rage) there's always a bigger fish. One of these days he's going to pick the wrong fight. And to answer your question, allanoue, I will continue to obey all laws to the letter with the exception of speeding. I stop at all stop signs and all red lights. I don't run stale yellows. I use my signals properly to let others know what I'm going to do. I stay back 2 seconds, and increase that to 4 seconds when being tailgated to protect the tailgater from rear-ending me (and thus destroying what little of my upper back and neck remains from the other tailgaters crashing into me). I turn into the nearest available lane. I only use the passing lane for passing. I make sure all my bulbs work on my vehicle, particularly brake and turn bulbs. I make sure the intersection is clear of pedestrians and red light/stop sign runners before entering it. I still drive over the posted limit if neccesary, but only to maintain my speed within 5mph of the prevailing speed of traffic. This is because that decreases my risk of causing a collision by the greatest amount and helps traffic flow faster overall. My goal is that everyone gets to where they're going safe and sound, not just me. I think about the others on the road, something that can't be said about a lot of people out there today. As to Google, they can't program their cars to break the law, because doing do would expose them to all sorts of liabilities. Ultimately, it's the lawbreakers that expect other drivers to be lawbreakers that are causing those problems. Mainly for them it's people who expect the google car to run a light or stop sign and rear-end them when they actually stop. Honestly? Every driver is captain of their ship and it's their sole responsibility to drive their car safely. *For a while, speed limits on highways were set politically rather than through scientific study. This resulted in greater speed variance and collision rates. Thankfully that's no longer the case. Edit to add: driving is a deadly-serious activity. If you're treating it as a game then you're part of the problem. |
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August 31st, 2016, 08:51 AM | #63 |
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I did this as a new post:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHzzSao6ypE If tailgaters complain about left lane blockers slowing things down for everyone, look how tailgaters create those "traffic snakes" too. Also, the lane changer that cut across two lanes and cut off drivers in the video. Basically, all the aggressive driving maneuvers. |
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August 31st, 2016, 09:40 AM | #64 |
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I would say I agree or am ok with you on most of what you say but following distance. one second is all i need maybe .8 in heavy traffic.
Two seconds is what I prefer but the reality is with two seconds we get cut off way to often and find ourselves having to hard brake when it happens at the same time as traffic is quickly slowing down. .8 to 1 full second keeps all but the very aggressive drivers from that hazard. It is about minimizing risk.
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August 31st, 2016, 10:22 AM | #65 |
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Drivers annoy other drivers. And drivers are annoyed by other drivers. It's almost a necessary conclusion as roads continue to get more crowded. Safety is a good idea to have as top priority, courtesy is up there as well, and all of that is in alignment trying to limit the annoyance we cause to others, and hoping there is less headed our way as well.
What I've always felt as the courteous (and safe, and least stressful) way to drive is to not impose my will on other cars, hoping to directly influence their behavior in some way. If someone is going faster than me, if I have a way to easily let them pass without significantly affecting their speed/path or mine, I should do so. If I am traveling faster than someone else, I'd want to find my way past without forcing other drivers to speed up, slow down, change path. The more crowded the roads are, the less possible it is to implement it fully; traffic in general is going to keep everyone from driving the speeds they prefer in the lane they prefer with the following distance they prefer.
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August 31st, 2016, 10:28 AM | #66 |
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Trust, courtesy, and respect!
How to live your life in a social world.
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August 31st, 2016, 10:44 AM | #67 | |
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August 31st, 2016, 10:53 AM | #68 | |
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One happened because people were nose-to-tail across five lanes of Interstate 20 and it had been raining. The sun glinted off of the rain on the road, someone bobbled their brakes, and suddenly it's a 25 car pileup that shut down the freeway for hours. I missed school that night, an important test, all because some people couldn't get it through their head that tailgating is extremely dangerous. Sadly Texas doesn't yank licenses for rear-end crashes, and I doubt anyone got a citation out of that mess. Maybe things would be different if rear-ending someone by tailgating was an automatic 1 year license suspension the first time and lifetime the second. |
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August 31st, 2016, 11:19 AM | #69 |
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@FrugalNinja250 88 feet at 65 mph
Easy and not superhuman if you can see well ahead of the vehicle just in front of you. If you can not see well ahead, you compensate with more space. Simple.
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August 31st, 2016, 11:30 AM | #70 |
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Name: Nick
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I get ticked with the idiots that drive, some times I wish I could just run them off the road. However, I just curse them and allow them on their way. I don't need the hassle of having to deal with them anymore then I have to. It's one thing to be annoyed it's another to provoke or cause the incident. You have to know when to quit, sorry that this goes against your philosophy of no one likes a quitter but lets face it no one likes Unregistered anyway!
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August 31st, 2016, 11:32 AM | #71 |
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{you}
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August 31st, 2016, 11:34 AM | #72 | |
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Interesting info here: http://www.iii.org/issue-update/auto-crashes According to that information, there were 1,966,000 rear-end crashes in 2014, resulted in 1,966 fatalities and 522,000 injuries (that's the category I'm in). They are the highest percentage of crashes of any and all types at 32%. Tailgating is just a bad idea all around; there is no rationalization that makes it anything else. Doing something to make things worse in response to someone else's stupidity just means now that there are two people doing something stupid. As long as you admit that to yourself and are happy with that then there's not much more to be done or said here. |
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August 31st, 2016, 11:44 AM | #73 |
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@FrugalNinja250
My eyesight system can be set for 1 second and does it very well and if you consider that tailgating I am sorry for you. You are right we are done.
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August 31st, 2016, 12:28 PM | #74 |
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Justification for lane squatters 101.
I just follow the laws better than everyone else so folks regularly crash and harass me; if everyone would just follow all the laws as good as me etc. he already said he drives "safer" to piss folks off I'm out
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August 31st, 2016, 02:12 PM | #75 | |
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Edit to add: Throughout this entire thread I've never asked anyone to actually change the way they drive; I've only pointed out, with sources, the consequences of making bad driving decisions. I know that none of the tailgaters here understand what they're doing. Now I am going to ask one thing of the tailgaters: Would you at least not tailgate motorcyclists? Please? I know that seems like it's a trivial thing to do, but I also know when dealing with folks' core values it's actually a terribly difficult thing to do. |
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August 31st, 2016, 02:15 PM | #76 |
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Actually never said that. Just so you know.
Maybe you'll be one of the 33,000 people that will take a life in a collision this year. Maybe that'll matter to you. Maybe you'll feel something for the people you hurt. Maybe you won't. I guess there won't be any way to tell until it's too late for your victim(s). |
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August 31st, 2016, 02:59 PM | #77 | |
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August 31st, 2016, 03:24 PM | #78 | |
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August 31st, 2016, 03:30 PM | #79 |
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sorry, off topic here, but this is exactly how i feel about abs, launch control, and traction control on bikes.
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August 31st, 2016, 04:12 PM | #80 | |
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It is a 2014 legacy with 95,000 crash free miles to go along with my 1,200,000+ crash free miles in a car. I did crash in 2011 on my bike my first year of riding when a car ran a stop sign making a left. 45,000 motorcycle miles ago I am not going to tell you about my my driving record from the 1970's Past performance does not guarantee future success.
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