Motorcycle Oil Info - By a Retired Chemist

[CZroe]

What's better for fuel economy? Full synthetic lighter/thinner, say, 10w40 or heavier/thicker, like 15w50? I'm assuming the former, even if it is "less protection" as they say.

[g21-30]

The articles I have seen, say full synthetic; although I went with Shell Rotella synthetic 5W-40W and didn't see any change. I guess it really means YMMV.

[subiegy2010]

So what's the general consensus on which Rotella T weight to use; 5w40 or 15w40?

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by g21-30

The articles I have seen, say full synthetic; although I went with Shell Rotella synthetic 5W-40W and didn't see any change. I guess it really means YMMV.

I was only talking about full synthetic though. I meant "which of those full synthetic weights is best for fuel economy?" Thanks.

[g21-30]

Probably the 5W-40, since the 5W has the most lubricity (slippery!).

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by g21-30

Probably the 5W-40, since the 5W has the most lubricity (slippery!).

The 5w means it flows like cold straight 5 weight oil when it's cold, the 40 means it flows like hot straight 40 weight oil when it's hot. Sooooo... the 5w will flow easier while the bike is cold... the two will flow the same after the engine is hot.

There are specific temps, not just hot and cold like I've said but I'm on my first cup of coffee this morning still and can't recall the actual temps

I run Amsoil 20w50 in my bikes because we're an Amsoil dealer and I get it for less than what I'd pay for other synthetic oils at retail stores... and I sometimes get Amsoil stickers, hats and shirts! I love freebees!

[FishaRneked]

I have put good ol shell Rotela T 15-40 in dozens of bikes, never had an engine lubrication problem. I suppose, i could use the 5-40 if i lived somewhere cold, but i dont.

(side note- i put SeaFoam every other tank, never a fuel problem)

[FishaRneked]

Originally Posted by noche_caliente

IF y'all do take pics (and yes, I really did just say y'all ) be sure to get the o-ring that's 'hidden' that no one can seem to find the first time

No kidding ! What o-ring???

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by FishaRneked

No kidding ! What o-ring???

Not sure if serious, but there is one around the perimeter of the oil filter cover, which is the obvious one, and one around the bolt that loosens it. The one around the bolt actually holds the bolt into the cover, which makes it seem like it doesn't come out. Take off all the springs and bits then pull it and it will. The ring itself is very tight and hard to remove without damaging it, but who cares if you damage it when you should only be removing it with a replacement on hand?

[drvr5]

http://m.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/index.html

I recall this article being quite informative. Sportrider did some actual tests and measured specs not anecdotes about various oils
Posted via Mobile Device

[Buffalony]

Just got the Audis oil done. Next oil change on the sticker says 10,000mi.

[Buffalony]

Originally Posted by drvr5

http://m.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/index.html

I recall this article being quite informative. Sportrider did some actual tests and measured specs not anecdotes about various oils
Posted via Mobile Device

Can you read that for me and tell me which oil to buy? I trust ya.

The Dyno test results are interesting.
I just use Mobil1 Racing.
Is there anyone here that switched from Mobil1 to something better?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by FishaRneked

...(side note- i put SeaFoam every other tank, never a fuel problem)

Why? if the gas is fresh and you're using it up and replacing it every couple of weeks, there should not be a problem. The problem comes when the gas sits for more than 3 months or more.

Ask yourself, why add more alcohol, for "prevention" for ethanol alcohol-caused gas problems? Simply makes no sense...
One of the main ingredients of Seafoam is "IPA" Isopropyl Alcohol. Don't get me wrong, Seafoam is good stuff when used as a cleaner or stabilzer.

There is an interesting article about fuel additives that make some really good points. http://www.fuel-testers.com/is_gas_a..._e10_list.html

[FishaRneked]

I maintain a fleet of training motorcycles, and have NEVER had a problem since using the seafoam. I have worked with several other fleets maintained by people who refuse to use it. AND THEY ALWAYS HAVE FUELING PROBLEMS. I SAY AGAIN ALWAYS !!!

I am not talking about one bike, owned and operated by an individual. Im talking about dozens of bikes that are somewhat mistreated...

and its only 10% IPA just to make it miscible, much different than ethanol, ehter or methanol...

I failed to mention, I live, and operate all these bikes on top of a swamp, below sea level, through various weather and humidity never drops below 60%... algea even grows on the walls, floors, etc. (whole nother topic)

[drvr5]

Originally Posted by Buffalony

Can you read that for me and tell me which oil to buy? I trust ya.

The Dyno test results are interesting.
I just use Mobil1 Racing.
Is there anyone here that switched from Mobil1 to something better?

Amsoil or Motul- for all the reasons that also make them the most expensive. I do *not* use any mobil products- a couple of years ago they killed the zddp in their 15w50 without doing anything to inform their customers. We found this out because we junked a race motor and subsequently had the oil analyzed. I believe they have since then put the zinc back in (or maybe we just got a bad batch- dunno), but that's enough to make me not run their products in anything I own or take care of.

[Buffalony]

Originally Posted by drvr5

Amsoil or Motul- for all the reasons that also make them the most expensive. I do *not* use any mobil products- a couple of years ago they killed the zddp in their 15w50 without doing anything to inform their customers. We found this out because we junked a race motor and subsequently had the oil analyzed. I believe they have since then put the zinc back in (or maybe we just got a bad batch- dunno), but that's enough to make me not run their products in anything I own or take care of.

I keep this in mind. Thanks

[blongwe]

Just did my oil for the first time since getting my bike. Because Kenya never gets cold is a warm, temperate climate round the year, the guy I bought it from recommended I use 20w50 regular (non-synthetic) oil. I'm glad I had someone with long years of biking experience to get the right advice from

[ricomtzjr]

Second oil change on my bike will be done today(2000 mi). I did the 600 mi oil change with valvoline mc oil @ $3/qt. So for my second change I decided on a 1500 mi interval. This time I will be using Rotella T6 (5W40 syn). We'll see how that performs for the next 3000 miles. I am planning on subsequent 3500 mile oil changes or annual.

[2012NewRider]

What is the consensus on oil change intervals, I have done the following g so far : 200, 1000, 3000, 4500 and I'm at 6200 miles now and not really sure how often I should change it. I'm also using Royal Purple 10W40

[Alex]

There's no consensus. Kawi's recommended service intervals are in a sticky thread at the top of the new-gen tech section. Many people happily follow those intervals. Many people choose to change their oil more often, at a variety of different intervals. I wouldn't recommend going longer than the recommended, even when using synth.

[CraigRR]

I use Amsoil 10-40 for the 250. The engine runs strong and I have no complaints. After two track days and a couple of street rides the oil is still clean. I normally change the oil in my bikes after 3,000 miles or every 3 months.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by blongwe

Just did my oil for the first time since getting my bike. Because Kenya never gets cold is a warm, temperate climate round the year, the guy I bought it from recommended I use 20w50 regular (non-synthetic) oil. I'm glad I had someone with long years of biking experience to get the right advice from

This thread is a bit dated, but it still needs some correction -


That's not good advice.

Run a synthetic 10W-40 in the Ninja. Running a heavier oil is not better! Heavier oils move slower - carrying heat away slower. They also build too much oil pressure, which isn't necessary and not an advantage. For starts below 50 degrees it's really a bad idea (not a factor for you from the sound of it).

20W-50 oils are for Big Twins that can easily overheat their oil and break it down. When a conventional oil breaks down it drops to its low rating (20). That's why the HD guys like 20W-50. Synthetic oils are much more difficult to breakdown, and don't drop to their low rating the same as conventional oils do.

For a water cooled engine, running a heavier oil like 20W-50 it's not necessary - or a good idea.

[jkv45]

The original article posted here isn't current or correct in a few assumptions. It was last updated in 2002.

It states -

"It is a fact than many SL oils now contain lower levels of ZDDP (the zinc/phosphorous extreme pressure additive) and that is a big concern to a lot of motorcyclists. ZDDP is a last resort protection against metal-to-metal contact. Whereas a few years ago the zinc level was typically 0.12% to 0.15% in SG automobile oils, some SL oils now have as little as 0.05%. However, this in itself may not be a problem since normal operation of a motorcycle on the street would never result in metal-to-metal contact any more than it would in your automobile. Remember these SL oils meet the most demanding protection requirements of modern, high-reving, powerful 4-stroke automobile engines (among others). And there is no reason to believe the lubrication requirements of street motorcycles is measurably different."



That last sentence is completely incorrect - there are plenty of reasons to believe the lubrication requirements are different. Current auto and cycle engine DO NOT have the same requirements for oil. Current auto engines use roller valvegear - cycles do not. That makes a huge difference in the requirements for oil. Non-roller components, as used in cycle engines, need the additional ZDDP to protect the cams/rockers before there is adequate oil flow - mainly during starts. Auto engines with roller components do not have the same requirements. and can get away with much lower levels. The higher performance the cycle engine is (more valve spring pressure), the more important ZDDP is.

For a cycle engine, a "motorcycle-specific" oil is best, but current diesel oils like Rotella or Delvac have high levels of ZDDP (unlike current standard auto oils) are are a good lower-cost alternative to motorcycle-specific oils.

[InvisiBill]

Another big difference - many bikes use the engine oil to lube the transmission too. It's been shown that the shared sump tends to break down the oil more quickly. In the testing described at http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/oil.html, 3600 miles in an Accord got the oil down to 91.8% of its original viscosity. After only 800 miles in a bike, it was down to 72.2%. The bike put 3x as much wear on the oil in less than a quarter of the time.

Originally Posted by jkv45

For a cycle engine, a "motorcycle-specific" oil is best, but current diesel oils like Rotella or Delvac have high levels of ZDDP (unlike current standard auto oils) are are a good lower-cost alternative to motorcycle-specific oils.

For those who aren't aware, the Rotella (T dino and T6 synthetic) is JASO MA certified. It's actually tested for 4-cycle, wet-clutch usage.

These standards, especially JASO-MA (for motorcycles) and JASO-FC, are designed to address oil-requirement issues not addressed by the API service categories. One element of the JASO-MA standard is a friction test designed to determine suitability for wet clutch usage. An oil that meets JASO-MA is considered appropriate for wet clutch operations. Oils marketed as motorcycle-specific will carry the JASO-MA label.

The 250 and 500 manuals specifically call for JASO MA if you're using oil that's certified API SH or newer. If you're using oil that's SL without JASO MA, it technically doesn't meet Kawasaki's listed requirements.

[Skullz]

I like rotella's T6 oil, and tough to beat on price when you can get a gallon for 20 bux at the local meijer store.

[Bob KellyIII]

Yes I know it's a very OLD thread but the subject of oil is very dear to me.
years ago on the Ranch we used 30w pennzoil in everything,because Dad did.
even in the old ford that had so many miles on it the rods were knocking and we parked it.
changing the oil was routine when it was black it was time to change it.
However times have changed and those archaic ways just don't make it any more.
Oil is the life-blood of your engine that being said it is very VERY important
for the longevity of your motor !
Newer bikes take 10W40 which is a multi-viscosity oil the thickeners in the oil change the oil's viscosity when the temperature changes... cold to hot or 10w oil when it's cold and 40w oil when it's hot....
sounds good right ? well it's not ! because those Thickeners are the first things to break down in your oil and yes about 5000 miles is maximum for a multi viscosity oil any time beyond that and your multi-viscosity oil becomes the lowest number in the can...
I talked to a learned man that worked for a big oil company one time and we discussed oil and the NEW Multi-viscosity oils at the time
he said stay away from the multi-viscosity oil in older vehicles ones with alot of miles switch rather to a single grade heavier viscosity oil.
I followed his advice in my cars and bikes and my motors began to last incredibly Longer periods of time. years passed and I got a Toyota tercell that was brand new off the show room floor it took 10w 40 oil so I used 10w40 but changed the oil at 5000 miles religiously when we topped 100K miles I switched to Valvoline 20w50 racing oil again replacing the oil every 5000 miles without fail at 300k miles the engine was getting tired but still ran for another 100k before the rods started knocking.
....
as parts ware the gap between the moving part and the bearings gets larger
it needs a thicker oil to fill that gap I have a toyota Cilica in the yard that has over 400k miles on it and it purrs like a kitten it has valvoline 20w50 racing oil in it .
My Current car is a Honda CRV with over 100k miles on it the owners manual calls for 5w30 ...as soon as I got it I changed the oil to valvoline 10w40
and we have put about 50k miles on it in the spring I will switch to valvoline 20W50 racing oil and I expect to get over 500k miles from this car.
....
My Little 2012 Ninja250R will get valvoline 10w40 for the first 5k I put on it
( it already has 5k on it) at 10k I plan to put 20w50 racing oil in it
I've stepped up the timing on this bike because the engine is working so hard
it is a powerful little motor that needs better lubrication...
my only fear is doing it too soon and putting in too thick of oil for tight tolerances.... but considering most of the miles have been at 8k RPM or more I think I am safe.... that thing works hard !
....
I've not seen too many motorcycles in my life with odometers that are over 200k miles.... oil viscosity may well be why !
Bob......