ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > General > General Motorcycling Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 25th, 2017, 03:12 AM   #1
Ninjette Newsbot
All the news that's fit to excerpt
 
Ninjette Newsbot's Avatar
 
Name: newsie
Location: who knows?
Join Date: Jun 2008

Motorcycle(s): only digital replicas

Posts: Too much.
[visordown.com] - Motorcycle travels 310 miles on a litre of water

Click here for full story...
__________________________________________________
I'm a bot. I don't need no stinkin' signature...
Ninjette Newsbot is offline   Reply With Quote




Old September 25th, 2017, 06:26 AM   #2
VaFish
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
VaFish's Avatar
 
Name: Tom
Location: Northern Virginia
Join Date: Jul 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2001 Ninja 250, 2019 Harley Ultra Classic, 2001 Suzuki SV650

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '16
How can this work?

My understanding of chemistry and physics says that the energy needed to separate the hydrogen and oxygen molecules (provided by the car battery in this video) is equal to the energy that you will get burning them in the combustion chamber and propelling the vehicle.
VaFish is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 25th, 2017, 07:03 AM   #3
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
It doesn't work. Because of losses, it takes more to separate the gasses than what you get back.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 25th, 2017, 08:35 AM   #4
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Unless you have catalyst that aids in separation....

There was converted Cadillac in '80s that supposedly ran on water. GM bought it and shelved all the technology. Germany had experimental engines that supposedly did this at end of WWII. It's possible net positive energy output can be achieved.

I suspect a lot of innovative tech is suppressed because it would take A LOT of money from oil barons...

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; September 25th, 2017 at 10:26 AM.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 25th, 2017, 09:03 AM   #5
CaliGrrl
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
CaliGrrl's Avatar
 
Name: Kerry
Location: Ventura, CA
Join Date: Jan 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja650

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '18, Apr '17, Apr '16
Separating the gases is the bottleneck. Electrolysis uses a *lot* of energy. If you could use solar energy to do it, that might help, but for now they haven't figure out a good way to get the hydrogen separated.
CaliGrrl is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 25th, 2017, 12:17 PM   #6
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
Unless you have catalyst that aids in separation....

There was converted Cadillac in '80s that supposedly ran on water. GM bought it and shelved all the technology.
That's a very old story in American folklore. It's been told long before the '80s in other forms, like the special carburetor that gets 100 mpg, but was bought by big oil and kept secret.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 25th, 2017, 01:42 PM   #7
Yakaru
The Violet Vixen
 
Yakaru's Avatar
 
Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012

Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R)

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '16
Separating water into H and O then letting them react is less a fuel source and more a battery. The 'cost' is borne in the manufacture. You can generate it with basically any power source -- solar, nuclear, coal, human on a stationary bicycle.
__________________________________________________
"most folks racing this bike get it in a competitive state of being with much less invested than you've already put in Saturn." - Alex
Yakaru is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 25th, 2017, 03:11 PM   #8
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
I suspect extra external battery is to make up for energy-deficit as bike can't supply break-even energy to keep water-cracking going. System consumes more energy than it generates. The external battery needs to be charged from external source such as wall-outlet; not from bike.

Otherwise if true, this guy's going to have a bike "accident" and his technology will magically disappear...
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 25th, 2017, 03:36 PM   #9
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
Don't worry Bobby Rick, if the system worked, there would be many billions of dollars to be had building systems to supply all of the world's energy needs, and the inventor would survive and be rich.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 25th, 2017, 10:41 PM   #10
maverick9611
"a legend in my own mind"
 
maverick9611's Avatar
 
Name: maverick9611
Location: Augusta,Georgia
Join Date: May 2017

Motorcycle(s): 2015 moto guzzi norge(brownie),2020 aprilia dorsoduro,

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Feb '18
water for gas. brown’s gas
https://water4gas.com/
reason ya don’t hear it about it is because big oil suppression.
__________________________________________________
"trying not to get old"
maverick9611 is offline   Reply With Quote


0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old September 25th, 2017, 10:55 PM   #11
Yakaru
The Violet Vixen
 
Yakaru's Avatar
 
Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012

Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R)

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '16
Or, you know, conservation of energy.
__________________________________________________
"most folks racing this bike get it in a competitive state of being with much less invested than you've already put in Saturn." - Alex
Yakaru is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old September 25th, 2017, 11:20 PM   #12
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Another article mentions he has to recharge his external battery after 10-hrs.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 25th, 2017, 11:43 PM   #13
Flying
ninjette.org sage
 
Name: -
Location: somewhere cold
Join Date: Jun 2013

Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250

Posts: 596
Blog Entries: 1
Another one. Bottom line is that hydrogen sucks as an energy carrier/fuel.
Flying is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 26th, 2017, 01:20 AM   #14
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying View Post
Another one. Bottom line is that hydrogen sucks as an energy carrier/fuel.
Why? It has highest energy output per gram of any fuel. Problem is storing and delivering it. This makes it difficult as retrofit. If designed from start with hydrogen as fuel, woud be same as CNG or propane engine.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 26th, 2017, 04:53 AM   #15
dz0
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Dave
Location: South of Chicago
Join Date: Sep 2017

Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninjette 2006 FZ6

Posts: 34
Hydrogen is very viable. It is being piloted in the USA.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-hydrogen-leap
Honda has a Hydro vehicle as well.

I saw another video of a guy with his own particle accelerator (in his yard) who made a water splitting hydrogen powered corvette but he was complaining that he was technically not allowed to purchase the material needed as the catalyst to make his vehicle efficient. He created the material in his yard accelerator, which is not a "sale". Not positive that it's true, but it seems like it could be.
In any case, we are on the cusp of being able to make this a reality. I am a little excited about it. If there were fueling stations near me, and I found that they were efficient about producing the hydrogen, I might even be an early adopter.
dz0 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 26th, 2017, 06:56 AM   #16
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
Or, you know, conservation of energy.
Funny how these schemes seem to ignore that. A few years ago a guy I knew was working on a system that used solar collectors to run a turbine to generate electricity. His estimates of the power he was going to get seemed off, so I calculated the most he could possibly get using Carnot efficiency. His huge system was going to get him about 1 kW at best. He got angry at me, and told me that the Carnot efficiency limit didn't apply in his system. Of course the system never got built.

The idea that there are systems to make power cheaply, but a powerful entity like big oil, or the car manufacturers, or the government has suppressed them has been around since the early days of cars, at least. The trouble with those conspiracy theories is that there is huge money to be made if those systems worked, and it would be impossible to sweep the information under the rug and make it go away, especially with all the countries around the world that would benefit.

The closest thing I've seen to a real energy conspiracy was the controversy around large NiMH batteries, back when they were the answer to electric power storage problems for vehicles.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
Old September 26th, 2017, 08:44 AM   #17
greenaero
Motorcycle Hypermiler
 
greenaero's Avatar
 
Name: Vic
Location: Livermore CA
Join Date: Jan 2012

Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's

Posts: A lot.
Color me skeptical. Without details it seems improbable; as stated above it takes more energy to separate the hydrogen from the H2O than burning the hydrogen delivers. Its interesting to me that scams like these still get press coverage while real world achievements like we have accomplished in the Vetter Challenge ( 235 mpg gasoline, 180 mpg biofuel diesel, > 150 mile electric range , traveling normal speeds with the ability to carry 4 bags of groceries) get very little. Better energy usage is possible but it's hard to get the average consumer interested in making the choices needed to achieve them. Scam news like this don't help.
__________________________________________________
235 MPG Hypermotorcycling to a better tomorrow
greenaero is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old September 26th, 2017, 08:53 AM   #18
choneofakind
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Feb 2011

Motorcycle(s): .

Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
Another thought from another perspective:

Anyone ever seen an industrial accident where hydrogen went boom? The flame is near invisible. The burn is ridiculously quick (to the point of an explosion), and as soon as hydrogen escapes into the atmosphere, it stealthily finds an ignition source.

Gas, on the other hand, burns slower, is visible, doesn't burn as hot (I think), and all fire crews are currently trained on how to deal with gasoline fires.


I'll take gasoline, thanks. I don't want a bunch of little invisible burning bombs driving around. People suck enough at driving as it is.
choneofakind is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 26th, 2017, 10:55 AM   #19
CaliGrrl
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
CaliGrrl's Avatar
 
Name: Kerry
Location: Ventura, CA
Join Date: Jan 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja650

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '18, Apr '17, Apr '16
There *are* cases of oil companies buying patents to things that would be replacements and improvements on the current technologies, and shelving them. So while it's not happening constantly, there are a lot of things which have been hidden.
CaliGrrl is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 26th, 2017, 11:10 AM   #20
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
The idea that there are systems to make power cheaply, but a powerful entity like big oil, or the car manufacturers, or the government has suppressed them has been around since the early days of cars, at least. The trouble with those conspiracy theories is that there is huge money to be made if those systems worked, and it would be impossible to sweep the information under the rug and make it go away, especially with all the countries around the world that would benefit.
Trick here is WHO would be making that huge pile of money with new systems? Certainly not oil-cartels since all their infrastructure and profits is in oil & gasoline. And national boundaries are no longer relevant with new borders being defined by corporate market-share.

Ultimate evolution of free-market capitalism is monopoly. Those are lazy fat cats who don't like change. Why bother wasting energy and effort on innovation and change when you can get even fatter easier by just squelching it!

Similar parallels can be seen in U.S. telecom companies fighting for rmonopoly (Motorola vs. Qualcomm) compared to cooperative efforts between Nokia and Ericsson who invented standards that left both U.S. companies in dust while they were fighting in court.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 26th, 2017, 11:38 AM   #21
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
Trick here is WHO would be making that huge pile of money with new systems?
Anyone deciding to manufacture and install the systems, including existing oil companies if they choose.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 26th, 2017, 11:49 AM   #22
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliGrrl View Post
There *are* cases of oil companies buying patents to things that would be replacements and improvements on the current technologies, and shelving them.
The US government doesn't like patents being used to prevent the use of the patented inventions, and can force a patent holder to license the invention to a third party. I agree that entities sometimes buy the rights to patents and never use the inventions, but if a company does this and another entity wants to use the invention to do something like make a breakthrough in power production technology, it's likely the holder of the patent rights will have to make a deal to allow it to happen.

Patents are publicly available, so buying the rights to a patent doesn't hide the invention. The details are available to everyone as soon as the patent is issued. That's why companies like Coca Cola don't patent their recipes, they choose to keep them secret.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 26th, 2017, 02:11 PM   #23
choneofakind
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Feb 2011

Motorcycle(s): .

Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
Anyone deciding to manufacture and install the systems, including existing oil companies if they choose.

The big money is on the upstream side. Infrastructure installation is contractor work, not big oil work.

Also, it's often more cost effective to let someone else take the hit by installing the infrastructure and just buy them outright later.
choneofakind is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 26th, 2017, 02:16 PM   #24
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
The big money is on the upstream side. Infrastructure installation is contractor work, not big oil work.

Also, it's often more cost effective to let someone else take the hit by installing the infrastructure and just buy them outright later.
Even more cost effective and profitable to just bury them and continue milking your fat-cat monopoly. Don't forget U.S. Gov. pays oil-companies subsidies for every gallon they sell. So no sense in throwing free money away by doing anything to sell less petrol.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 26th, 2017, 07:34 PM   #25
dz0
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Dave
Location: South of Chicago
Join Date: Sep 2017

Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninjette 2006 FZ6

Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
Trick here is WHO would be making that huge pile of money with new systems? Certainly not oil-cartels since all their infrastructure and profits is in oil & gasoline. <clipped>

Similar parallels can be seen in U.S. telecom companies fighting for rmonopoly (Motorola vs. Qualcomm) compared to cooperative efforts between Nokia and Ericsson who invented standards that left both U.S. companies in dust while they were fighting in court.
You are mistaken. Oil and gas industry is interested in diversifying and being an "ENERGY" supplier. Not just oil and gas. Shell is putting in the hydrogen stations in California. Why? To stay competitive.

Comparing this to a court battle over tech patents is grossly irrelevant. They were not attempting a monopoly in that case and the diversified suppliers of refined products are not attempting a monopoly. Not sure what tech wonderment you imagine existing that is not available today because of that suit, but there is nothing out of our reach.


And while we are on the subject, sometime big companies do buy the rights to a product to slow its development, and sometimes they just screw up. I know none of us had ever had an experience with a large corporation who could simply not get a basic function done and jacked it all up in spite of themselves. /sarcasm/ This incompetence is real in big corporations.

Last futzed with by dz0; October 3rd, 2017 at 05:15 PM.
dz0 is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old September 27th, 2017, 06:44 AM   #26
cbinker
Track Clown
 
cbinker's Avatar
 
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012

Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post

The idea that there are systems to make power cheaply, but a powerful entity like big oil, or the car manufacturers, or the government has suppressed them has been around since the early days of cars, at least. The trouble with those conspiracy theories is that there is huge money to be made if those systems worked, and it would be impossible to sweep the information under the rug and make it go away, especially with all the countries around the world that would benefit.
Couple of questions:
Is it more profitable for these big guys to curb the technology until it is absolutely needed?
Do you really think they care about other people more then their profits?
__________________________________________________

TEAM ALFALFA
www.apexassassins.com
cbinker is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 27th, 2017, 07:17 AM   #27
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbinker View Post
Couple of questions:
Is it more profitable for these big guys to curb the technology until it is absolutely needed?
Do you really think they care about other people more then their profits?
My point was that this kind of conspiracy theory has been around for a long time without much substantiation. Curb the technology? I guess they could do that internally, but they can't keep information contained in patents, for example, away others who want to develop the technology.

As far as caring about profits more than people, I'll leave that generalization for others to make, but a big company that doesn't care about profits will end up putting a lot of employees out of work.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 27th, 2017, 09:21 AM   #28
adouglas
Cat herder
 
adouglas's Avatar
 
Name: Gort
Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location
Join Date: May 2009

Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 6
MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13
The whole "evil company suppressing technology in the name of profit" line has always rung hollow for me.

Corporations are not evil. They are amoral (not the same thing as immoral). They exist to do one thing:

Make profits. Anything that increases profit is good. That can be done by increasing sales, cutting costs or both.

Does anyone seriously believe that the ENORMOUS costs and vast risk of oil exploration, extraction, refining and distribution are seen as a benefit by the energy companies?

If you were the CEO of ShellExMobPetronLukoil and you had the opportunity to make profits in the energy sector without those costs and risks.... you'd be all over that like ugly on an ape, right?

It is therefore in the oil companies' best interests to incorporate alternatives into their mix of products, in order to position themselves for the future. Worry not... if it exists, they'll figure out a way to make it profitable.

Example: Say the technology for algae-produced biodiesel achieves commercially viable scale, and the net cost is lower than extraction and refining of petroleum for an equivalent product. It would be flat-out stupid for an oil company not to buy into that tech rather than suppressing it. Why? Not because it's greener. Because it's more profitable.

The second alternative energy (seen as a whole system) is able to generate profits comparable to petroleum, you can bet your last dime that the energy companies will change their business models. We'll still be buying fuel/energy from the same people, just in a different form.

Suppressing technology in the short term doesn't ring true, either. They know full well that over time, the cost and risk of exploration and production increase. Stalling tactics only increase their costs.

The age-old axiom of TANSTAAFL applies. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. There are no miracle technologies stashed away in some oil exec's drawer.
__________________________________________________
I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12

Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est.
Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem.
adouglas is offline   Reply With Quote


5 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
Old September 27th, 2017, 02:14 PM   #29
CaliGrrl
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
CaliGrrl's Avatar
 
Name: Kerry
Location: Ventura, CA
Join Date: Jan 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja650

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '18, Apr '17, Apr '16
Any new tech will come with a lot of development costs. Oil is an established thing. At best, I would expect a company to wait until someone else comes up with the systems to do things.

It makes sense to keep a competing tech off the market. Stable profits, vs this other guy who has a good invention but will reduce your profits. You could buy the patent, and own the profits, but there's a lot of input money needed to get to that point. And who says you will get more profit from the new system than you do from oil?
CaliGrrl is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 27th, 2017, 02:25 PM   #30
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
I betcha the oil companies do a lot of research on new technologies they can use in the future. 30 seconds of searching turned up this, as an example:

https://www.chevron.com/corporate-re...newable-energy
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 27th, 2017, 03:55 PM   #31
Yakaru
The Violet Vixen
 
Yakaru's Avatar
 
Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012

Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R)

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '16
As the price of oil goes up, the risk of developing an alternative looks more and more profitable in the long term. Economics will win in the long run.
__________________________________________________
"most folks racing this bike get it in a competitive state of being with much less invested than you've already put in Saturn." - Alex
Yakaru is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old September 27th, 2017, 10:06 PM   #32
CaliGrrl
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
CaliGrrl's Avatar
 
Name: Kerry
Location: Ventura, CA
Join Date: Jan 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja650

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '18, Apr '17, Apr '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
As the price of oil goes up, the risk of developing an alternative looks more and more profitable in the long term. Economics will win in the long run.
And nothing will happen until then.
CaliGrrl is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 28th, 2017, 07:20 AM   #33
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
As the price of oil goes up, the risk of developing an alternative looks more and more profitable in the long term. Economics will win in the long run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliGrrl View Post
And nothing will happen until then.
And nothing will without transparent pricing. Gasoline prices are kept artificially low by gov. subsidies. If anything, they should be allowed to float at real market prices. And taxed to fund alternate energy research by non-gov., non-oil agencies.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old September 28th, 2017, 11:00 AM   #34
CaliGrrl
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
CaliGrrl's Avatar
 
Name: Kerry
Location: Ventura, CA
Join Date: Jan 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja650

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '18, Apr '17, Apr '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
And nothing will without transparent pricing. Gasoline prices are kept artificially low by gov. subsidies. If anything, they should be allowed to float at real market prices. And taxed to fund alternate energy research by non-gov., non-oil agencies.
Agreed.

Prices are apparently quite high in other countries who don't subsidize.
CaliGrrl is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 28th, 2017, 11:30 AM   #35
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
A major cause of higher gasoline prices in other countries is a very high tax, as opposed to a lack of subsidies. I've read that subsidies in the US may account for about 5 cents per gallon overall.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old September 28th, 2017, 01:04 PM   #36
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
It's a complex book-making scheme with subsidies though. A lot of it comes in through tax-credits and loopholes. For example:

2009 Exxon Mobil paid $00.00 zero, zilch, nada dollars in taxes.
2010 Exxon Mobil paid $7.5bil in taxes, or just 1/2 the regular corporate rate.

Personally I 'd like to see $1-2/gal alternate-energy tax collected up-front at pump that doesn't get washed through the oil-companies' books. Then have that really be used for research and infrastructure upgrade. We're way behind the curve on this. In many places in Europe, you have electric-car only sections of downtown. And parking-meters have built-in chargers for electric cars.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old September 28th, 2017, 10:52 PM   #37
CaliGrrl
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
CaliGrrl's Avatar
 
Name: Kerry
Location: Ventura, CA
Join Date: Jan 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja650

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '18, Apr '17, Apr '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
Personally I 'd like to see $1-2/gal alternate-energy tax collected up-front at pump that doesn't get washed through the oil-companies' books. Then have that really be used for research and infrastructure upgrade. We're way behind the curve on this. In many places in Europe, you have electric-car only sections of downtown. And parking-meters have built-in chargers for electric cars.
I'd like to see alternate energy research done, too.

Electric car only areas? Cool! I know some cities are restricting when gas cars can drive into downtown.
CaliGrrl is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 1st, 2017, 05:55 PM   #38
VaFish
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
VaFish's Avatar
 
Name: Tom
Location: Northern Virginia
Join Date: Jul 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2001 Ninja 250, 2019 Harley Ultra Classic, 2001 Suzuki SV650

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jan '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliGrrl View Post
There *are* cases of oil companies buying patents to things that would be replacements and improvements on the current technologies, and shelving them. So while it's not happening constantly, there are a lot of things which have been hidden.
1. Patents are public documents, anyone can look them up.

2. Patents are not permanent. At best they could delay implementation by 20 years by doing what you propose.
VaFish is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 3rd, 2017, 05:18 PM   #39
dz0
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Dave
Location: South of Chicago
Join Date: Sep 2017

Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninjette 2006 FZ6

Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliGrrl View Post
And nothing will happen until then.
Perhaps, but it is ALREADY happening.

You might have seen a Tesla car on the street. You might have sen "hybrid" parking spaced if you didn't notice the hybrid car. You might even have noticed the Shell hydrogen refueling stations in CA.

Have you noticed that your electric bill now has "delivery fee" and supplier charge on it? The changes have been developing for years.

+1 VaFish patents are public and have a lifespan.

Last futzed with by dz0; October 4th, 2017 at 10:55 AM.
dz0 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old October 3rd, 2017, 05:32 PM   #40
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
This is Paris 5-yrs ago:


Brazil has stations like this


Tesla outside the U.S.


China now has 167,000 charging stations like this on kerbs


Why are we so far behind?
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[visordown.com] - Man travels 12,000 miles with mother's ashes Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 September 12th, 2013 11:00 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:02 AM.


Website uptime monitoring Host-tracker.com
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are © Copyright 2022 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.