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Old June 20th, 2019, 11:06 AM   #1
oakleaf
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Front Wheel Wobble

Recently picked up 2007 Ninja 250 that was dropped at moderate speed, cleaned it up and it runs great in all ways but one. I noticed the other day when riding at maybe 40 mph that I have front wheel wobble. Tires are okay and inflated properly, so assuming alignment. The bike was dropped at one point. How do I troubleshoot or is this something I bring into the shop?
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Old June 20th, 2019, 11:11 AM   #2
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Hey, nice bike!

Does it physically wobble at 40mph? Like you can see its surface or edges is uneven? Or is it a shaking that you feel? No shaking or wobble @ less than 40mph? Alignment and out-of-round issues would also show up at all speeds. Does it go straight and not pull to one side or lean?

It probably just needs balancing, I don't see any weights on wheel.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 11:16 AM   #3
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I let go of handlebars at 40mph and front wheel shook where I had to immediately grab. I don't notice it driving normal, but I've just taken up riding this year after a 25 year hiatus. Front wheel does appear to be out of alignment.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 12:40 PM   #4
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I did free spin the tire. No discernible wobble at all. I took a picture with front tire aligned to rear tire. You can see the slight twist from handlebar to fender to wheel. So twist in fork. Is this easy to fix? Or is this indicative of a bent chassis?

Edit: Found this > https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/I_need...nd_front_wheel
Will hopefully work on it this weekend.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 01:24 PM   #5
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Yeah, that guide is good. Loosen all the clamps so there's no twists anywhere.

Also using string strung around front & rear tyres is good way to make sure they're both aiming in same plane.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 01:32 PM   #6
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Thanks Danno!
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Old June 20th, 2019, 01:56 PM   #7
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Does the tire have scalloping of the tread blocks?

It looks to me like an old stock tire, if so, throw it in the trash and install a new one before you ride around the block. Doesn't matter how much tread is left.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 02:51 PM   #8
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I had that happen on a race bike after a low speed crash. turned out the rim was bent. You couldn't visibly see any flaw. Got the wheel straightened out for little cost and all was good.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 03:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Does the tire have scalloping of the tread blocks?

It looks to me like an old stock tire, if so, throw it in the trash and install a new one before you ride around the block. Doesn't matter how much tread is left.
It is stock tires. I will have them replaced. I'm open to any suggestions!
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Old June 20th, 2019, 03:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Yeah, that guide is good. Loosen all the clamps so there's no twists anywhere.

Also using string strung around front & rear tyres is good way to make sure they're both aiming in same plane.
I did align the forks. When I loosened the clamp bolts and wiggled the wheel, the bike pretty much reset!

However, there is physical wobble that starts at 35 mph and goes away at around 55. Assuming that's tire balancing? Sounds like I should replace the tires which I'm also assuming will make problem go away.
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Old June 20th, 2019, 04:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakleaf View Post
I did align the forks. When I loosened the clamp bolts and wiggled the wheel, the bike pretty much reset!

However, there is physical wobble that starts at 35 mph and goes away at around 55. Assuming that's tire balancing? Sounds like I should replace the tires which I'm also assuming will make problem go away.
Good job on relaxing the fork! I do that after every crash at track to make sure there's no pent-up twists!

Yes, vibration in specific range of speeds sounds like wheel balance. With new tyre, you still have to balance. Without balancer, a lot of people just clamp an axle sideways in bench vise and spin wheel. It'll roll back and forth and settle with heavy spot on bottom. Tape weight to opposite side and spin again.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 06:16 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by oakleaf View Post
It is stock tires. I will have them replaced. I'm open to any suggestions!
Here's some info to help you decide - https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Tires

We have had Pirelli MT75s and Diablo Scooters on our Ninjas, and my son liked the Scooters better.

I've since sworn off Pirelli tires. I've had 2 sets on a car as well, and in both cases the rubber has dried and cracked, significantly reducing traction, long before it should have.

Chances are your current problems will disappear with a new set of tires.
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Old June 21st, 2019, 07:01 AM   #13
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It's not unusual that a worn out front tire will cause exactly what you experienced, with nothing else being wrong. It happens right around the 35-40 mph zone with hands off the bars. If you don't feel any wobbling with your hands on the bars, I'd assume you just need a new tire.

A hands-off test is really not recommended on any motorcycle, no matter how well it's set up, since it doesn't tell you much and can lead to uncontrollable wobble.
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 08:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Here's some info to help you decide - https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Tires

We have had Pirelli MT75s and Diablo Scooters on our Ninjas, and my son liked the Scooters better.

I've since sworn off Pirelli tires. I've had 2 sets on a car as well, and in both cases the rubber has dried and cracked, significantly reducing traction, long before it should have.

Chances are your current problems will disappear with a new set of tires.
Thanks! Ordered a set of Shinkos.
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 08:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
It's not unusual that a worn out front tire will cause exactly what you experienced, with nothing else being wrong. It happens right around the 35-40 mph zone with hands off the bars. If you don't feel any wobbling with your hands on the bars, I'd assume you just need a new tire.

A hands-off test is really not recommended on any motorcycle, no matter how well it's set up, since it doesn't tell you much and can lead to uncontrollable wobble.
Actually my hands tingle/fall asleep after one hour into a ride so thinking I might be gripping to tight I held handlebars very loosely to relax my hands. That's when I noticed the wobble. I have no desire to ride hands-free!
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Old June 24th, 2019, 08:29 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakleaf View Post
Actually my hands tingle/fall asleep after one hour into a ride so thinking I might be gripping to tight I held handlebars very loosely to relax my hands. That's when I noticed the wobble. I have no desire to ride hands-free!
One thing to try if that continues to be a problem would be different grips. There are gel grips and grips with more damping effect. Stock grips are hard when new, and harder at this point. I like ProGrip 717s.

Another way to dampen vibrations getting to your hands is to fill the bar with lead shot or a similar material. Worked for my Ninja 750, which would numb the fingers on my throttle hand quickly during hwy cruising before doing it.
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Old June 25th, 2019, 12:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Good job on relaxing the fork! I do that after every crash at track to make sure there's no pent-up twists!

Yes, vibration in specific range of speeds sounds like wheel balance. With new tyre, you still have to balance. Without balancer, a lot of people just clamp an axle sideways in bench vise and spin wheel. It'll roll back and forth and settle with heavy spot on bottom. Tape weight to opposite side and spin again.
I apologize in advance if this is a dumb question, lol!

You say people clamp axle sideways in a bench vise and spin wheel. faq.ninja250.org recommends setting axle ends on jack or milk crates. So, why not, with tire off ground and level, just spin on the bike to find heavy side?

Also, tire appears to have been balanced at some point. Attached is a picture. Seems heavy.

Finally, when is a motorcycle tire bad? I have Dunlop K630s ‎100/80-16, 130/80-16 with cracking on the side. Tread looks okay. I did purchase Shinko SR740/741s. Just curious if the K630s are safe to ride on until I install the Shinkos.
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Old June 25th, 2019, 02:10 PM   #18
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Sure you can spin it on bike as well. Have to loosen axle-nut so there's no pressure. Also remove brake-caliper so pads don't rub. There's still some friction from bearing-seals and axle-seal, so won't be as free-spinning as balance stand.

Other thing that may at work here is fix-a-flat sprays. I've seen lots of wheels that had this crap sprayed in to seal minor leaks. Problem is most of it stays liquid inside tyre and heavy spot moves around. This causes crazy bouncing of wheel and vibrations to your hand, and it can't be fixed by balancing!

Purpose of sidewalls is to provide tension against air-pressure (think of a suspension-bridge rolled up into donut-shape). This tension is carried by the fabric cords in sidewall. Cord tension is reduced by weight of bike at contact-patch area on bottom (thus why tyre bulges out). Reduced tension there is carried by air-pressure and increases tension along all other cords not in contact area. Sidewall rubber itself doesn't take much load and its main purpose is to seal against air-pressure since fabric doesn't seal too well against air-pressure.

In cases of performance tyres, rubber layer is minimized so much, you can actually see fabric pattern showing through sidewalls. In extreme cases, there's no rubber at all on sidewall, just thin sealant infused into fabric itself (skinwall tyres on racing bicycles). Best tyres I've ever used was 100gm silk sew-up slicks on my velodrome bike. You can actually see light through sidewall of tyre! And tread had just enough rubber for 6-laps, just 2-km !!!


Yeah, those tyres are fine to use. Don't be too aggressive, however I was able to regularly scrape centre-stand and exhaust on my 2002 with those 15-year old tyres. Smooth is fast. Tyre is "bad" when it no longer grips. This is caused by thin rubber layer which does not have enough flex to transmit hysteresis forces into inner layers. With experience, you can tell when tyre-grip is going off by gradually increasing speeds until it slides. Worn tyres will slide at lower-speeds with different "feel". Cracked sidewalls are also bad because eventually cracks will spread to fabric layers and you may have rapid decompression. Although more likely, it'll manifest as slow-leaks that can last for years.
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Old June 26th, 2019, 06:09 AM   #19
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Finally, when is a motorcycle tire bad? I have Dunlop K630s ‎100/80-16, 130/80-16 with cracking on the side. Tread looks okay. I did purchase Shinko SR740/741s. Just curious if the K630s are safe to ride on until I install the Shinkos.
1) After about 5 years almost any tire has lost a certain amount of traction, some even quicker. Cycle tires are more critical, so I use 5 years as a max. The amount of tread left doesn't matter.

2) Cracking is telling you the rubber compound has dried out significantly.

3) No.
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Old June 29th, 2019, 06:05 AM   #20
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Update... Pulled front wheel and rebalanced using milk crate method. The wobble is gone. Thank you!
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Old June 30th, 2019, 02:48 PM   #21
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Update... Pulled front wheel and rebalanced using milk crate method. The wobble is gone. Thank you!
Awesome work!

To balance, did you just have to move existing weight to new location?
Or did you also have to increase/decrease total mass of weight as well?
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Old July 2nd, 2019, 05:37 PM   #22
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Awesome work!

To balance, did you just have to move existing weight to new location?
Or did you also have to increase/decrease total mass of weight as well?
I just had to move the existing weight about 20 degrees from original location. Then wheel spun balanced. Doesn't take much to be off, does it?
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Old July 2nd, 2019, 07:51 PM   #23
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interesting, i ran for years with out balancing the wheels on the 300 with no problem.
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Old July 2nd, 2019, 09:25 PM   #24
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When I put tires on my DT100 road racer without balancing them and got up near 70, both wheels were close to hopping off the ground. A couple ounces in the right places and they're rock steady. There was never a wobble though, just hopping.
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Old July 3rd, 2019, 05:54 AM   #25
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When I put tires on my DT100 road racer without balancing them and got up near 70, both wheels were close to hopping off the ground. A couple ounces in the right places and they're rock steady. There was never a wobble though, just hopping.
guess i was lucky. wont do that again,
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Old July 3rd, 2019, 06:08 AM   #26
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guess i was lucky. wont do that again,
I didn't feel that I was in danger, it was just very annoying. I usually balance wheels after changing tires... I don't remember why I didn't that time.
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