Old computers never die

[Alex]

Or at least they don't have to. We had a circa 2001 dell desktop sitting around that was fully functional when we stopped using it. I had put a vanilla XP install on it, put it under a desk, and used it as a backup network drive for awhile. But a few years ago I turned it off and never turned it back on.

But I've been on a Windows 7 kick the last few weeks, and after successfully installing it on a relatively low-powered laptop from long ago, I was curious if I could get it to run on that old tank of a desktop. In its day it was plenty fast (P4, 1.4 Ghz, RDRAM bus, 768 MB memory), but compared to today's specs it's barely a calculator. I installed Windows 7 on it, and it not only came up cleanly, but it was more responsive, snappier, and just slicker than it ever was under XP. Only trick was finding a graphics driver, but an old XP one for the ancient GeForce MX 32MB card ended up working, and allowed full resolution on a 1600x1200 monitor. I set up an account for our little monster, put the home page of the browser to a kids site that he likes, and he now has his own PC for almost nothing.

It would have stayed almost nothing, but now that I saw that it worked, I'm putting in 2GB of memory and a new $30 graphics card that will take it to circa 2004 specs at least, and will allow a supported driver in Windows 7 rather than a kludge. If any of you have old machines sitting around that still have functional hardware, 7 can run on much, much less heavy-duty hardware compared to what Vista required. Here's a link to a MS tool to let you see how it may run on your PC:

Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor

On a separate note, I upgraded the memory (4 GB) and the video cards (Radeon HD 4670's for $60) on two other machines in the house, and both of them are now screaming along in 7 as well. I was on this quest after realizing that Microsoft released that family pack deal again, allowing you to upgrade 3 PC's in the house for a total cost of $150 (list, can be found for $120ish online)

Link on Amazon.

I initially liked Vista over XP, but over time it became so bloated and slow, that I was considering a new PC build just to deal with its performance issues. Turns out that all I needed was to forget about Vista and move on, and the computers couldn't be snappier, even though they are going on 4 years old at this point (Core2 Duo's). Happy, geeky, camper here.

[CZroe]

2GB of RAMBUS RDRAM is pretty expensive... even PC400. Even so, people routinely underestimate older PC hardware. That PC is very close to a PC I used as a high-end gaming PC for a LONG while. Granted, I had a $300 GeForce 3 in there for most of the time (a PS2 cost $300 back then but couldn't come close to it). It is likely a socket 423 Williamette, which could be upgraded to 2.0GHz and 1GB PC800 RDRAM with a GeForce 4 Ti4200/Ti4600 to play anything up to 2005 when XBOX 360 ports started pushing older hardware, which is important because games are usually the most demanding thing a typical PC user can do on a consumer PC. Things like video editing are almost linear with the CPU as long as it isn't bottle-necked by memory capacity.

[Alex]

Yeah, the rambus wasn't cheap. On some sites it was $500+ for that amount, which I wasn't ever going to invest in a PC that old. But then I found memorypig.com, and it was < $150 for 4 512MB PC800-45 sticks. I hemmed and hawed about spending less to get it up to a gig total, but I already had 768 MB in it (with all 4 slots filled), so if I was going to spend any money, may as well just max it out.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

Yeah, the rambus wasn't cheap. On some sites it was $500+ for that amount, which I wasn't ever going to invest in a PC that old. But then I found memorypig.com, and it was < $150 for 4 512MB PC800-45 sticks. I hemmed and hawed about spending less to get it up to a gig total, but I already had 768 MB in it (with all 4 slots filled), so if I was going to spend any money, may as well just max it out.

Retail CPUs were the way to go at first because Intel was bundling them with RDRAM. Mine had cool blue heat-spreaders. All my RAMBUS upgrades after that came from computers people were throwing away. Pulls are still probably the way to go... it was easier/cheaper to find a couple old Dell Dimension 8100 desktops being thrown out with 2x256MB than to find a cheap 4x256MB kit!

I'm having a flood of memories about my P4 Williamette. After getting the new ATX PSU and case requirements sorted out (first to mount the HSF through the motherboard to the panel under the motherboard; first to require AUX and +12v connectors; all new retention mechanism), I took mine to @LANta.con 2001 just before the GeForce3 launched (I had mine preordered. I had to borrow my friend's Radeon All-In-Wonder card just because i850 boards were the first board to require lower voltage AGP cards and my Voodoo3 was keyed only for higher voltage slots (most AGP cards supported both). My friend happily used my Voodoo3 and stuck an Alienware badge on his 64MB SDRAM P3 500 Katmai system and had everyone fooled! It was really an eMachines PC and he bought the same black sliding-door case that Alienware was using at the time (not really "Hydraulic" as everyone called it just because it slid open slowly like a flywheel design). He got all the attention with his "Alienware" PC despite it sitting right next to a much higher end system. The Voodoo3 made all the difference, so Quake III Arena, Unreal Tournament, etc all looked better on his system. I tried to show him up at QuakeCon 2003 with another system (I still had/maintained my P4) and the MSI board I was using with an Athlon XP kept defaulting to 333FSB on a 266FSB Athlon XP+ CPU when the CMOS settings were cleared, which meant that I couldn't boot to enter the CMOS Setup and set the FSB properly! I was out of commission for almost the whole duration because I couldn't get online to get the motherboard manual and find the unmarked "safe_mode" jumper (grr... shouldn't have needed it). The thousands of attendees made the Internet connection unusable. MSI had a booth at the con and, if I weren't trying to catch up on everything else on the last day, I would have walked over there and given them a piece of my mind!

The only Intel P4-compatible case I could find back then was the In-Win S508-IW, which I still see in games and movies all the time (it's the computer chassis you see most often in the Half-Life 2 series), so it always sends me back.

[HKr1]

Were still using our old dells also. One from 02, the other from 05. The one from 02 really comes in handy for the serial and printer ports(the 05 deosnt have them). < needed for playing with some other electronics

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by HKr1

Were still using our old dells also. One from 02, the other from 05. The one from 02 really comes in handy for the serial and printer ports(the 05 deosnt have them). < needed for playing with some other electronics

I've been wanting to program some PIC micro-controllers and noticed that the new Dell tablet PC my sister sometimes takes home from work has RS232 serial on the optical drive/port replicator, which my sister thought was part of the laptop until I showed her how to take it off (it was meant to be carried as such). She didn't know it was a convertible tabled PC either! I have to cut her some slack because I couldn't find the stylus storage for hours even though I was sure there had to be one and looked the whole thing up and down repeatedly. I'm sure they aren't native... this thing has USB3.0 for crying out loud... so I hope I can get them to work with the software, which was pretty picky and required a lot of tweaking with serial ports on 10+yo PCs.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Thinking of upgrading our office computers from xp to win 7. The biggest pain for me is supposedly our accounting software isn't supported on 7 (yet it runs fine on one pc). Amazing how MS is the OS and owns the accounting software, and say its not supported but won't say if they did test the combination and had a problem or didn't even test it. So if I want to go to win 7 and have support I have to update my accounting system which involves a lot of testing due to customizations and moving from SQL 2000 to 2008. But should all be worth it in the end.

Also LapLink's PC mover moved just about all of my settings and apps from XP to Win 7 (on the same pc), something MS doesn't do unless you go XP to Vista to 7.

[Alex]

SQLServer 2000 isn't supported on Vista or 7:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/sqlreleasese...r-2008-r2.aspx

That said, there may be a way to run it within "compatibility mode" if you have Windows 7 Professional or Enterprise. But everything in compatibility mode is unsupported, it's meant as a last-ditch effort to get something to run in 7 that truly won't run natively.

Apparently some folks have been able to get SQL2000 apps running in that mode, but there are bugs/problems/issues that make it not a great choice for an enterprise that actually relies on the app.

http://ask.sqlservercentral.com/ques...0-on-windows-7

The right way (and you already know this ) is to bite the bullet at some point, and migrate to a currently supported platform, with all of that work that it entails.

In terms of settings and apps migration, I'm not a fan of the Laplink or even the built-in MS tools. The new OS is rock solid, tested, reliable, and trustworthy. Bringing over app files and registry settings to try and make for a seamless transition from XP to 7 will save some time up front, but lose multiples of that time downstream if there are strange problems due to the archaic settings, app files that have been updated but not present because it wasn't installed from a clean install, etc.

If someone has to do 1000 pc's, I'd look for automated tools. If someone has a handful of PC's supporting a home business or small business, I'd make sure the data files are intact and stored elsewhere, but then wipe all PC drives down to nothing and install 7 from scratch.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Oh the SQL is installed on server 2003 with an iscsi san (where the user's files - office, pdf, etc also are stored), not on a desktop machine. One good thing with the PCMover is you can do a test migration, and on future upgrades uncheck the apps that don't come over nicely (in my case anti virus, accounting software).

[Alex]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Oh the SQL is installed on server 2003 with an iscsi san (where the user's files - office, pdf, etc also are stored), not on a desktop machine.

Makes sense.

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

One good thing with the PCMover is you can do a test migration, and on future upgrades uncheck the apps that don't come over nicely (in my case anti virus, accounting software).

Right, but the problem is that you may not be able to tell immediately whether something came over nicely or not. If it doesn't crash right away, but does a few weeks in when the user accesses a module that does have incompatibilities, or would have installed differently if put on with the install code rather than just pulling the executables across; that's where the challenges come in later down the line.

A/V is a perfect example of something that should not be yanked over this way. It's so core to everything to do with how the machine accesses files, processes, network traffic, you name it; installing a clean version from the latest install media (or download) on the new OS is the way to go.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by Alex

Makes sense.



Right, but the problem is that you may not be able to tell immediately whether something came over nicely or not. If it doesn't crash right away, but does a few weeks in when the user accesses a module that does have incompatibilities, or would have installed differently if put on with the install code rather than just pulling the executables across; that's where the challenges come in later down the line.

A/V is a perfect example of something that should not be yanked over this way. It's so core to everything to do with how the machine accesses files, processes, network traffic, you name it; installing a clean version from the latest install media (or download) on the new OS is the way to go.

yeah agreed that a clean install is the best install. we might stay at xp for awhile, until we do a test upgrade of our accounting system and SQL, and then we would roll out 7 to non-accounting users first, then to accounting users with 7, new accounting software, and sql 2008 on the back end. fun, fun, fun.

[TenaciousD]

Look into the XP mode option for Win7. It's basically an XP virtual machine. I believe it's a free download from Microsoft if you already have Windows7. It's great for running apps that you can't retire yet but won't run in Win7.

I have a 486DX-33 from 1993 that still runs Windows 3.1. The hard drive is 212MB and it has 4MB of RAM. I wish I could think of something to do with it.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by TenaciousD

I believe it's a free download from Microsoft if you already have Windows7. It's great for running apps that you can't retire yet but won't run in Win7.

Link to download XP mode

It is free, but it will not work on Windows 7 Starter or Home Premium, it has to be on 7 Professional, Enterprise, or Ultimate. The problem is that unlike with Vista, there is almost nothing removed from Home Premium that 95% of users need (or even want), so Home Premium can be a much more attractive option than paying more for the higher versions. Especially at that family pack price, of $150 for 3 licenses. I happily (well, almost happily) shelled out for Vista Ultimate a few years ago, but am quite happy with Windows 7 Home Premium and see no reason to upgrade; this XP mode isn't quite enough. And I also haven't found anything that I can't run on 7 natively yet anyway.

link to compare different Windows 7 versions

I know, I seem like a Microsoft shill, forgive me but I'm really enjoying things working so smoothly lately after cursing at Vista for awhile. If people are looking at that 3-pack, this link on Microsoft's site offers that same 3-pack, and includes a free Cisco wireless router in the deal for that same $150...

[Bleak21]

I'm still using an IDE hard drive on this computer from 2001 (or 02? from a gateway). It's great for nonessential apps (games). I also have a portable enclosure with a hard drive from 1998 in it (old family business pc). My friend's computer has officially died 4 times, but it's been chugging along for 9 years in various setups (10 years this year!).

P.S.: If you have a .edu email address take advantage of the student discounts! My uni is allowing us to use our .edu's for life so hopefully it's cheaper software for life! wooo! (It'll end eventually I'm sure)

[Sailariel]

Yikes! You guys are speaking a foreign language. Up until three months ago, I was posting on this forum with a Winbook 400XL which had a 4G Hard Drive, 64MB RAM,and a 400MB CPU. My OS was Win95, which I upgraded to Win98SE. I also maxed out at 128Mb RAM. I still use the computer in my bike shop to acess various bicycle restoration sites. I recently bought an IBM ThinkPad T-42 with WinXpPro. It's like going from a Moped to a ZX14R. Please bear with me as I learn. (Thought you computer whizzes needed a few ho ho's)

[backinthesaddleagain]

Just when I thought I was the lone holdout of WinXP I went on a tour of NBC studios in NYC. We saw the nightly news set and behind it is a huge newsroom as well as MSNBC broadcasting. Was surprised to see the XP screens, especially due to the MS in MSNBC.

[Flow]

Originally Posted by Sailariel

(Thought you computer whizzes needed a few ho ho's)

Yeah, they'd be delicious.

[Bleak21]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Just when I thought I was the lone holdout of WinXP I went on a tour of NBC studios in NYC. We saw the nightly news set and behind it is a huge newsroom as well as MSNBC broadcasting. Was surprised to see the XP screens, especially due to the MS in MSNBC.

I think you'd be surprised to see how slow larger companies are to change OS'. It's not a priority for most; users are familiar with it and organization-specific apps were designed for it.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Yeah, gotta stop trusting all the trade publications. According to them I am the one left hosting my own exchange server, LOL.