2 into 2 exhaust... traditional dual, or both on same side?

[JMcDonald]

I am making a 2-2 exhaust for my bije, but i cant decide whether i want to put both cans on one side, or go for the "true dual" setup? On the one hand, I like that going true dual would be very unique on this bike, and I wouldnt have to worry about any clearance issues of running two 1.5" pipes in place of the factory single 1.38" pipe . On the other hand, however, the left side can would require custom mounting (into which I havent put much thought), and the can might possibly get in the way during chain maintenance.

I am leaning toward splitting the pipes to either side of the bike, but I wonder what you guys thought of it?
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[want1sobad]

check out www.bikepics.com - you will see some pics of 250r's with dual cans. doesn't look good imo......good luck with the project regardless of what you decide to do.

[bob706]

I would love to have dual exhausts. I think they would even the bike out. Let us know what you come up with.

[JMcDonald]

Yeah I've seen a couple pics, which didn't really help sway me either way lol. I really like just about every photoshop I've done and pic I've seen of two cans on one side (both on 250s and on Ducatis). One thing I am worried about is getting both sides symmetrical. With them together, it would be easy assembling the cans into a single unit and then mounting that unit however I want. Another concern I touched on earlier was not only fitment of a vertical 3" of pipe under the bike, but also the vertical fitment of two 4"-diameter mufflers on the right side. I have to keep them low enough to not interfere with passenger foot placement, but high enough to not have ground clearance issues. I actually forgot about that. I had just about worked it out with 3"-diameter mufflers, but I decided to go larger for a little more muffling, and that extra 2" of vertical space might definitely force me to split them up!

So, I am pretty sure I would like the look of both on one side if I can get them to fit. At the same time I know I'd be excited about the uniqueness of a true-dual setup if I can get them lined up :P .

[Snake]

Have you thought about running both pipes under the tail? That would let you keep the chain clearance on the left and gain clearance on the right.

[JBedney]

I think that Leo Vince has a nice idea which could be adapted to the Ninja.

Have a look at this:

[JMcDonald]

Originally Posted by Snake

Have you thought about running both pipes under the tail? That would let you keep the chain clearance on the left and gain clearance on the right.

Like, a standard dual, but mounting the pipes near the rear fenders? That would look cool I'd imagine, but I don't think the GF would like to ride with her legs on top of those :P .

There is space to route the left-side exhaust system in basically a mirror image of how the right side is done--actually way more than running both on the right and then crossing over near the swingarm pivot. But I was mostly referring to the left-side can being in the way of lubing the chain. Of course, it could be worked around (like a lot of time I have my GF walk the bike forward while I spray basically on the sprocket anyways), so that isn't a huge deal.


That pic definitely makes me want to go with split duals, though!

[Snake]

More like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFfSi...eature=related

[JMcDonald]

Ooh so like a true "undertail!" That would be cool, but we lower the bike a good 2" when my GF rides it, so there is no way anything like this would work under there . It would also be way more difficult, haha.

[ithaca00]

Do it HRC style with one can under the tail and one on the right!!!

[JMcDonald]

Hahaha gheengstaaaa!


And btw this is what I meant as far as both cans on the right side. Though, I am not sure if I would have staggered them or not.

[JMcDonald]

I already have all the materials for it. Plus, how big are the stock pregen pipes?
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[Alex]

Originally Posted by kawboyCAFE

you could always use a 2-into-2 header from an early ninja 250. it will fit.

IIRC, Kerry Bryant of AreaP was asked this awhile back, and said that the headers were in fact quite different and would not work on both gens? My memory of it is a little hazy though; I'll see if I can find a link.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Alex

IIRC, Kerry Bryant of AreaP was asked this awhile back, and said that the headers were in fact quite different and would not work on both gens? My memory of it is a little hazy though; I'll see if I can find a link.

this?
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...8&postcount=54

[Alex]

Maybe, I thought there was something that more clearly stated that it wouldn't fit (not just that it wouldn't be optimal), but hey, there have been alot of posts here.

EDIT: Here's what I was thinking of.

[JMcDonald]

I think I might try to just make a whole new set of rear pegs. That way I can add hangers without boogering up the stock peg mounts.
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[JMcDonald]

Decided to go two on one side. Got the mufflers made (added custom cores to some old bullet mufflers I had), and made just a little bit of progress on the actual piping. I started with the true dual setup but decided to go with the doubled-up mounting, largely for the simplicity (time is limited and I felt like I was never going to get done, heh).

When I finish I will post all the pics and info in a new thread.

[JMcDonald]

Here is a quick pic. But I have been waiting until I finish the setup (including tuning) before I report full details. You can see the tips of the cores inside the mufflers from that angle. I have since cut them out in experimenting. It is not any louder, and performance didn't change any, but the tone is a little more raspy than with the cores in. Though, it does look a little "tougher" with the two deep, hollow strait-through cores exposed .

I think the more common 500*F paints are available in richer colors, so I might try to find a darker black. Surprisingly, even after pretty spirited riding, the mufflers are cool enough that I can grab them with my bare hand for several seconds, so I am not worried about colorfastness. The stock muffler would be too hot to touch at all after maybe 5 minutes of riding. I keep forgeting to grab my infrared thermometer so I can get some hard numbers, though.

Oh and yes it is loud. At first I kinda hated it and thought it was obnoxious, but from various feedbacks I've got that while it is loud, it's not a big deal compared to some of the Harleys and such that cruise around here. It is still louder than I would want, though, and in the future I might consider replacing the mufflers with some nicer magnaflows or something like that if I keep this setup. But, most people seem to think it sounds pretty cool. In reality, the main reason I don't like its loudness is because it's still a 250 and it makes me feel a little Ricerish :P . If it was coming from a 150-Horse Ducati V-Twin that would be one thing, but I feel the volume is a little too much "show" for the amount of "go" I've got, heh.

[bob706]

Looks really nice

[JMcDonald]

Thanks . Sometimes I like the "look at me and my badass bike" factor of it's note, and I love looking at it and knowing I made it myself and there is nothing like it around here, but sometimes I feel like it's a bit much for me. I might play with some internal baffling to see if I can't mellow it out a bit.

[Snake]

Looks great J.

[JBedney]

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

Thanks . Sometimes I like the "look at me and my badass bike" factor of it's note, and I love looking at it and knowing I made it myself and there is nothing like it around here, but sometimes I feel like it's a bit much for me. I might play with some internal baffling to see if I can't mellow it out a bit.

Two identical mufflers installed in parallel are the equivalent to install one of those mufflers with half the length. (Like connecting resistors of the same value in parallel: 1/R = 1/r1 + 1/r1, then R = 0.5 r1)

You get more flow and less sound absorption, that's why the noise level is high.

Using mufflers with an smaller core diameter (25 mm) would be a solution, and to keep the "power look" you can use a 25 to 50mm transition pipe as an end cap.

[JMcDonald]

Yeah that's why I had originally added the cores, to keep velocity / turbulance / pressure high to help reduce sound. I never thought about it being so mathematically relative, though! But yeah, I have been thinking about making another set of mufflers with smaller cores (probably 1" or so ID, like you mentioned), or adding some cores to these. I only say this because mufflers with IDs that small are hard to find, and motorcycle-specific mufflers are so expensive I might as well just buy a professionally-made exhaust, heh. I think put about $80 into this project so far, most of which was the mandrel bends.

Here is another pic. You can see the lower pipe comes below the fairing at the rear in order to fit both pipes underneath the swingarm pivot. There are no fitment issues with the fairing, but the heat pad that originally went under the cat just grazes the lower pipe.

And I will say if I could do it all over again I would have gone with all 1.25" OD piping, or maybe 1.375", rather than 1.5". This is largely for fitment, both under the bike and around the head flanges. But I have some ideas for cores to get the mellow out the sound a bit.

[JBedney]

How about a Turbulator inside the perforated tube?

The Turbulator is a baffle formed by a twisted metal bar used to slow down the hot air flow inside a gas water heater flue. I have not tried this idea yet but I am sure that this kind of baffle might be effective in a motorcycle muffler too.

[JMcDonald]

I put the stock exhaust back on for now. Not enough time to troubleshoot both the jetting AND the exhaust. Another big reason was in living in an apartment, I always felt like I was bothering the neighbors when I'd leave in the morning, and this morning I saw a neighbor of mine look out her window when I had started my bike (and I wasn't even choking it, letting it lazily idle around 1k RPM).

[JMcDonald]

I'm not gonna lie, I am starting to miss the rumble a little bit more every day :P .

Maybe over the break I might make a V2, with smaller diameter tubing and perhaps different / better mufflers.

[jmgrande]

Originally Posted by bob706

I would love to have dual exhausts. I think they would even the bike out. Let us know what you come up with.

Agreed! I want dual exhaust, but how can it be done?

[JMcDonald]

There is room on the left side of the bike to route a second pipe for sure. I ended up skipping true duals because I didn't want to have to mess with finding a mounting solution at the peg.

[Kurgan]

I hate to necrobump this, but I couldn't find any other topic on true 2 into 2, or shotgun exhausts.
This setup is close to what I want to do with my bike, but I want to use smaller diameter carbon cans to emulate the old school 2 stroke exhausts like the Suzuki RGV 250 used to have.

http://www.motorrad-news.com/wp-cont...ki-RGV-250.jpg

Like that, but 2 into 2, on an '09 Ninja 250, but not mounted so high, stock location is fine. There's something similar on youtube, but it's a custom made 2 into 1 into 2 system, that looks like the pipe gets heavily restricted in diameter just before it hits the cans. Wouldn't that produce a huge amount of backpressure and be detrimental to power?

Link to original page on YouTube.

It sounds great though.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

necrobump

[Kurgan]

Now that I think about that term in THAT way it is funny.

It's just that some forums go apenuts when someone replies to a topic that hasn't been touched for more than a few weeks.

[caps]

Originally Posted by Snake

More like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFfSi...eature=related

I want this SO bad! but with Dan Moto's and no chrome...

[greatwhiteninja]

dual exhaust would be nice, i still may go with the totsubo setup over the winter.