Lane Splitting Too Fast Results In...

[akima]

Link to original page on YouTube.

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I bet you didn't expect that outcome. I thought the guy filming was going to crash. I'm guessing the guy on the black bike was going equally [too] fast. At least the guy filming was smart enough to keep the guy who crashed from standing up.

I played the clip back and it looked like the cage changed lanes really suddenly... if they were both traveling slower they'd have a much better chance of dealing with something like that though, or even not having such a powerful impact when they do crash.

It is a nice feeling gliding by cars lane splitting, so I can totally understand their emotional drive to go fast.

[Jiggles]

I don't think they were going too fast, looks like normal speed to me

[akima]

Maybe I'm just a slow coach

I think I'd probably lane split slightly faster on those American roads than on UK roads. The lanes there look wider than ours. On our motorways and duel carriage ways you're forced to ride on the center line paint quite a lot if you lane split which means turning and braking is more sensitive, so you have to ride slower to accommodate for it.

[Cazper]

Yeah, I wouldn't say that he was going to fast... that car from the left lane that hit him sure switched lanes quick

I kinda wish the camera man had his camera facing up more... it was hard to see the actual action

[massacremasses]

The guy from the car looked like he was 16.... just being dumb and not paying attention.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by akima

Maybe I'm just a slow coach

I think I'd probably lane split slightly faster on those American roads than on UK roads. The lanes there look wider than ours. On our motorways and duel carriage ways you're forced to ride on the center line paint quite a lot if you lane split which means turning and braking is more sensitive, so you have to ride slower to accommodate for it.

You could be right about the differences in our roads but since I've never been to the UK personally I couldn't say. However, there is far more lane splitting in the UK than in the US. Currently there is only one state that legally allows it, so anywhere else you can expect a ticket if/when caught. The other problem here is a MUCH lower awareness of bikes than in.... well just about anywhere in the world. Over here you have to become a speed bump before 90% of these cager idiots notice you. I kid you not, bikes here have a built in cloaking device (yes I'm a sci-fi geek, bite me ) and cages just drive like you're not there.

So I wouldn't suggest lane-splitting even at low speeds in most of the US Akima. I would rather take my chances with the UK drivers than the US drivers. Also over here, if you do get run over, don't expect the law to give a rats ass about it either. You'll be lucky if the person that ran you over gets a citation for some sort of MINOR moving violation while you're taken to the morgue.

[massacremasses]

If youre in CA you cant bet your ass youre gonna be in trouble for hitting a bike lane splitting....

[greg737]

That guy was indestructable, superhuman.... unit he wasn't. That's how a lot of us live our lives.

If lane-splitting at those speeds looks normal to you it's because you're indestructable and superhuman. Good luck.

[Zola]

I'm interested in comments from experienced lane splitters on the following:

What would be an appropriate speed in mph for the lane splitting depicted in the video?

Estimate the speed of the rider doing the filming.

Estimate the speed of the rider that crashed. It appeared that he was pulling away from the camera.

What was the car doing immediately before the crash. Did the driver signal for a lane change?

[Guoseph]

Originally Posted by greg737

That guy was indestructable, superhuman.... unit he wasn't. That's how a lot of us live our lives.

If lane-splitting at those speeds looks normal to you it's because you're indestructable and superhuman. Good luck.

I think the angle of the camera (pointed down) contributed to the perception of higher speed. If I were to guess the speed differential to be 10-15mph above flow of traffic, which to me strikes a balance between reaction time and the amount of time you expose yourself to the car beside you. Also the traffic looks pretty stop and go, so absolute speed wasn't so high, very different to be sharing at 25mph in 10mph traffic than sharing at 65mph in 50mph traffic.

Still hurts a lot if you get hit though, so everyone who chooses to lane share must evaluate the risk for themselves...unless it's illegal in their state

[massacremasses]

I generally only lane split in traffic, however our roads are kind of narrow in town therefore I dont do it much. Since we dont really have traffic on our freeways, I dont really do it often. and often in town you have some jackass all the way to one side of the lane and everyone else on the other side, so essentially he messes it up...

I watched the video a couple times and it looks like Guosephs comment is pretty accurate. traffic is going no more then 10-15 mph I would estimate around 10ish. the bikers seem to be going double that. So around 25 would be accurate. Estimate the length of the breaks in the line and how long it takes the bike to reach each one about I would say 25ish MPH is a good guesstimate.

So 25MPH the superhuman speed caused this accident, stupid lane splitter going so damn fast... what was he thinking?

but in all seriousness just shows how you gotta watch out for all the idiots on the road... and again look at the kid who was driving the car. He looks like hes barely 16...

In conclusion. It didnt look like he was going all that fast however we drive motorcycles so we have to be extra careful (duh) but even more so when lane splitting... I suppose this would be when a loud bike would come in handy

[greg737]

Still hurts a lot if you get hit though, so everyone who chooses to lane share must evaluate the risk for themselves

This sounds real adult, very thoroughly considered and brainy. Except that's not how it happens. The only way you can go zipping along in about 6 feet of space between cars is if you absolutely fail to evaluate the risks you're taking.

If you actually evaluated lane splitting risks in a rational way you wouldn't do it at anything above a walking/jogging pace and only when the car traffic on the highway is at a complete standstill.

So 25MPH the superhuman speed caused this accident, stupid lane splitter going so damn fast... what was he thinking?

Okay, let's put you on your EX-250 and me in one of those cars you're lane splitting between. At the speed differential you've estimated I'm willing to bet I could nail you 10 times out of 10 tries.

In conclusion. It didnt look like he was going all that fast however we drive motorcycles so we have to be extra careful (duh) but even more so when lane splitting... I suppose this would be when a loud bike would come in handy

Did you read this sentence over before hitting "post"?

[greg737]

Making friends and impressing people.... lane splitting is fun for everyone!

Do you think the cager in this little incident appreciated having his mirror damaged?

Link to original page on YouTube.


Explain to me why the lane splitting motorcylist is so angry, laying on the horn like that? Is there a law that says the driver of the truck can't change lanes? The rider reads off the truck's license plate number as if he's going to report him. So when a motorcyle is lane splitting is evey car on the road prohibited from changing lanes? The truck even signalled the lane change and the Douchebag on the bike came charging up on him anyway. Did you notice that the motorcyclist has his hazard flashers going and his high-beam light on? Mr. Considerate.

Link to original page on YouTube.

If this is representative of even a small percentage of lane splitting behavior then it's a wonder the cagers aren't intentionally aiming for them.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by greg737

Making friends and impressing people.... lane splitting is fun for everyone!

Do you think the cager in this little incident appreciated having his mirror damaged?

Link to original page on YouTube.


Explain to me why the lane splitting motorcylist is so angry, laying on the horn like that? Is there a law that says the driver of the truck can't change lanes? The rider reads off the truck's license plate number as if he's going to report him. So when a motorcyle is lane splitting ever car on the road is prohibited from changing lanes? The truck even signalled the lane change and the Douchebag on the bike came charging up on him anyway.

Link to original page on YouTube.

That truck was trying to cross a double yellow, so yes, there is a law saying he can't change lanes

[greg737]

That truck was trying to cross a double yellow, so yes, there is a law saying he can't change lanes

Well, I guess that's just California. Everybody performs their own stunt work.

So if the rider had been about 10 seconds quicker down the highway he'd have been hit by the truck because (thank you for pointing out the double yellow to me) I'm sure the rider wasn't expecting anyone to change lanes during the double yellow zone. Thus his extremely offended and angry reaction.

Then his lawyers could have rolled his newly-paralyzed ass into the courtroom for a big judgement in his favor.

[Jiggles]

If it were me I probably wouldn't sue because a paralyzed ass would make sitting extremely comfortable.

[alex.s]

i think maybe some people are used to having wide open roads with little traffic to deal with. when you live in the city people try to kill you. frequently. and i'm not talking about once a week or once a day... i mean every few minutes. regardless of if you're minding your own business in the slow lane following at a safe distance with the flow of traffic, or lane splitting at 50 over like ghostrider, they try to kill you. if you don't see them, they will kill you. always see them.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by greg737

This sounds real adult, very thoroughly considered and brainy. Except that's not how it happens. The only way you can go zipping along in about 6 feet of space between cars is if you absolutely fail to evaluate the risks you're taking.

If you actually evaluated lane splitting risks in a rational way you wouldn't do it at anything above a walking/jogging pace and only when the car traffic on the highway is at a complete standstill.


Okay, let's put you on your EX-250 and me in one of those cars you're lane splitting between. At the speed differential you've estimated I'm willing to bet I could nail you 10 times out of 10 tries.


Did you read this sentence over before hitting "post"?

["A"]

I have lane splited in states that are illegal to do so, even passing a few police cruisers along the way.

But whenever I do lane split, I usually stay within 5-10 mph of traffic flow.

Lane spliting between slow moving traffic, your bigest concern is drivers that decide to change lane. Traveling t 5-10 mph above traffic flow usually allow sufficient time or teh driver to see you approching from the rear.

Whether or not the riders were riding too fast within that traffic is hard to say, but it looks to me that the rider rear ended the car, operator error on the motorcyclist. If the motorcyclist was side-swiped, that's more likely the fault of the driver.

BTW, honking at motorists while lane spliting just makes drivers hate motorcyclists even more in general; tap your horn a few times and move on, no need to sustain your horn to be annoying.

[greg737]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

What's the matter, did you run out of words? Angry but unable to formulate a pithy declarative statement?

Why so mad anyway? All I said was I bet I could center-punch you right out of your lane split with relative ease in spite of your superhuman reflexes.

[Cuongism]

The truck also isn't just trying to change lanes out of a double yellow, he's trying to exit the HOV lane which is a bigger no no.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by greg737

What's the matter, did you run out of words? Angry but unable to formulate a pithy declarative statement?

Why so mad anyway? All I said was I bet I could center-punch you right out of your lane split with relative ease in spite of your superhuman reflexes.

Yes you have out smarted me. Another victim of the smartest man on the internet.




also the "superhuman" comment was in response to your "superhuman" statement, but surely you realized that.

[greg737]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

Yes you have out smarted me. Another victim of the smartest man on the internet.




also the "superhuman" comment was in response to your "superhuman" statement, but surely you realized that.

If you regularly find yourself surfing "cute little picture" websites to respond to forum posts, you may have a little vocabulary deficit.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by greg737

If you regularly find yourself surfing "cute little picture" websites to respond to forum posts, you may have a little vocabulary deficit.

If you regularly find yourself being a tool on the internet, you may have a self esteem issue.



What I find the most humorous is that your grammar, and syntax is laughably juvenile, yet you say I have the vocabulary issue. Congratulations your linguistic skills must be unmatched in your third grade class.

no meme for this post.

[greg737]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

If you regularly find yourself being a tool on the internet, you may have a self esteem issue.



What I find the most humorous is that your grammar, and syntax is laughably juvenile, yet you say I have the vocabulary issue. Congratulations your linguistic skills must be unmatched in your third grade class.

no meme for this post.

You really can't write, can you?

Before I blame the American educational system I have to ask, is english your first language?

[massacremasses]

It is.

And no I cannot. I am a horrid writer and to think I wasted all that money on a college education.


I would love if you would diagram my sentence structure, and show me oh wise one the error of my writing ways.

[greg737]

I would never do that.

We're just butting heads because (way back at the start of this thread) you didn't like my comment about lane splitting. I understand. You like to lane split and you don't appreciate me saying it's dangerous. No hard feelings on my part.

Wasn't intentionally trying get on your nerves, press your buttons or offend your "personal mythology" with my opinion, but I guess that's going to happen on internet forums.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by greg737

I would never do that.

We're just butting heads because (way back at the start of this thread) you didn't like my comment about lane splitting. I understand. You like to lane split and you don't appreciate me saying it's dangerous. No hard feelings on my part.

Wasn't intentionally trying get on your nerves, press your buttons or offend your "personal mythology" with my opinion, but I guess that's going to happen on internet forums.

ahhh by what I have bold-ed I now think I understand why you are saying I cannot write. haha if you think my word choice was wrong you should have just said it, It's not, but ok.

But really what I didnt like was you making such a bold and general statement of how people who lane split think they are "superhuman." Then trying to make me some less intelligent? Im not sure what that was about. I respond in meme's because they are funny, not because I lack the mental capacity of constructing a rebuttal.

I don't really get offended I just laugh at everything soooo, for sure no hard feelings here either.

[KawiKid860]

Nobody ever said lane splitting wasn't dangerous... All they said was that ~10mph over the flow of traffic is a decent speed for it. Then Greg came in and started to mouth off about how you californians think you're superhuman and have masterful reflexes that will save you from being hit in an accident... so ignorant. He doesn't even live in CA so..

[massacremasses]

But I am superhuman!

[akima]

Justin and Greg! WTF?!! Be nice! Lifes to short and absurd to get angry at each other like this!

Originally Posted by Zola

I'm interested in comments from experienced lane splitters on the following:

What would be an appropriate speed in mph for the lane splitting depicted in the video?

Estimate the speed of the rider doing the filming.

Estimate the speed of the rider that crashed. It appeared that he was pulling away from the camera.

What was the car doing immediately before the crash. Did the driver signal for a lane change?

I'm not that experienced but I want to reply anyway!

What would be an appropriate speed in mph for the lane splitting depicted in the video?

~5 MPH above the speed of the traffic: I'd want to have enough time to safely stop/slowdown if a car in front of me suddenly blocked my path.

If the traffic was moving faster than ~25 MPH then I wouldn't lane split.

If the traffic was at a stand still I'd travel 20 MPH maximum.

Estimate the speed of the rider doing the filming.
between 20 and 40 MPH
I think he was doing ~15 MPH faster than the flow of traffic.

I'm not sure about the final 2 questions. It's hard to see the crash event in the video. I can only imagine he was travelling as fast as the rider that was recording... which IMO is dangerously fast.

[Guoseph]

Originally Posted by greg737

This sounds real adult, very thoroughly considered and brainy. Except that's not how it happens. The only way you can go zipping along in about 6 feet of space between cars is if you absolutely fail to evaluate the risks you're taking.

If you actually evaluated lane splitting risks in a rational way you wouldn't do it at anything above a walking/jogging pace and only when the car traffic on the highway is at a complete standstill.

It is exactly how it happens. Unless it is against the law (which it is in 49 states), you can't tell anyone how to lane split just like you can't tell guys wearing shorts and flip flops to wear proper protection. It's a soap box not worth getting on. What's rational for you in Washington is not how traffic works in California or much of the rest of the world, where lane sharing is more common place.

[greg737]

What?

It is exactly how it happens.

What does "it" in this sentence reference?

Unless it is against the law (which it is in 49 states), you can't tell anyone how to lane split just like you can't tell guys wearing shorts and flip flops to wear proper protection.

There was nothing in my post about whether lane splitting was legal or not.

It's a soap box not worth getting on.

Don't own a soap box. I was just pointing out that a lot of the things we regularly do are dangerous and the only way to do them is to ignore the risks.

What's rational for you in Washington is not how traffic works in California or much of the rest of the world, where lane sharing is more common place.

How on earth did you manage to extrapolate my post to a Washington state vs. California thing? I certainly didn't go there.

[greg737]

Nobody ever said lane splitting wasn't dangerous... All they said was that ~10mph over the flow of traffic is a decent speed for it. Then Greg came in and started to mouth off about how you californians think you're superhuman and have masterful reflexes that will save you from being hit in an accident... so ignorant. He doesn't even live in CA so..

Murphey is a mouthy little 16 year old child.

(how's that for disrespect right back at you with some top-spin on it?)

[Guoseph]

Originally Posted by greg737

What?


What does "it" in this sentence reference?


There was nothing in my post about whether lane splitting was legal or not.


Don't own a soap box. I was just pointing out that a lot of the things we regularly do are dangerous and the only way to do them is to ignore the risks.


How on earth did you manage to extrapolate my post to a Washington state vs. California thing? I certainly didn't go there.

Look, you are against lane sharing, I get it. You are in fact in the majority, thus the comment about 49 states (i.e. 98%) where it is illegal. I'm not trying to get you to split lanes, I'm simply pointing out that there are other points of view on this subject.

I've read some your other posts in other threads and I have appreciated how your contributions have increased my knowledge, especially from the EFI thread, but I'm really surprised at how aggressive you are acting in this thread. Regardless, I stand by my view that the rider in the original video was not going too fast for conditions. Hopefully we can agree to disagree and let it rest, the lane sharing topic has been over-discussed as is all over the internet.

[greg737]

okay alex. no problem.

I know I probably shouldn't add this once again because it doesn't seem to be getting through. I was addressing the mental issues at work behind the scenes:

all I was pointing out is that human beings, "we" "us", me included, routinely over-estimate our abilities and ignore the possible, probable risks and the eventual percentage of down-side results to things we want or want to do.

never said I was against lane splitting.

I really don't care that much about what's going on in the world because it's all going to happen anyway, but I am interested in how the mind works; the psychology, the instinct and the ideas on which we operate. I'm constantly reading books on this subject. I guess it's a hobby the same way my EX-250 is. The result is that I sometimes come at a topic from a direction that doesn't immediately make sense to everyone else in the discussion.

[coondog]

What's with this "we" and "us." Speak for yourself. When I make an ass out of myself here I do it on my own, so do you.

[greg737]

What's with this "we" and "us." Speak for yourself. When I make an ass out of myself here I do it on my own, so do you.

Hello coondog.... you managed to contradict yourself in three short sentences.

At least it's funny.

I'm not ruling out the chance that you're going for a laugh here, that you're not serious because it's actually a great little piece of ironic humor (if it's on purpose, that is). It's damn near a Haiku of irony.

You do see how it's funny? You tell me to speak for myself, then you speak for me.

[rusninja]

lmao iv seen a guy wheelie between cars but i was waiting to see his wings thats stupid. Gregs just mad because it isnt legal to lane split over there. ;] Thing is greg made people who lane split sound like they are ignorant when it comes to their safety. But as alex said riding is riding if you are not alert your pretty much screwed.

So the question is greg you ride a motorcycle do you feel superhuman? :P

[akima]

* sigh *