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Old February 10th, 2023, 12:30 PM   #1
Alex
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Email blacklist (dammit all to hell!)

Much of the automated mail ninjette.org sends out just started getting blocked as of yesterday. This is due to the particular network block of the provider we use being identified as allowing too much spam. It has nothing to do with ninjette.org, and even has nothing to do with our particular server / IP space, which is shared with a number of other resources. We show clean on every other site - except for one called uceprotect.net, evidently in Switzerland, that is a bit more heavy-handed about flagging entire providers. The fix for it is that they charge 25 CHF (approximately $28) per month to whitelist the IP so mail can still get through. I'm not paying $360 a year to these idiots, and I don't have the time or energy right now to migrate to another provider. I'm hoping this may resolve itself, but I'm not able to guess the likelihood.

In the meantime, this means many/most users can't sign up for the site, can't get notifications for any threads or PMs, or anything other functionality that relies on an email being sent out, if they are using a mail provider that subscribes to these blocklists (and almost all major ones do).

blocklist.jpg
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Old February 10th, 2023, 04:37 PM   #2
csmith12
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Old February 10th, 2023, 05:17 PM   #3
Triple Jim
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I've had this happen to the mail system for my company, and it took a while but is mostly OK now. I had to use Gmail's SMTP server during the problem. I chose that one since it's free and open to anyone, apparently. The only oddity was that my mail from mydomain.net was delivered as mydomain.net@gmail.com None of my customers seemed to notice or care.
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Old February 10th, 2023, 10:43 PM   #4
CaliGrrl
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Wow, that stinks. I hope it clears itself up.
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Old February 10th, 2023, 10:55 PM   #5
Alex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
I've had this happen to the mail system for my company, and it took a while but is mostly OK now. I had to use Gmail's SMTP server during the problem. I chose that one since it's free and open to anyone, apparently. The only oddity was that my mail from mydomain.net was delivered as mydomain.net@gmail.com None of my customers seemed to notice or care.
Right - I use a variety of different mailservers for different purposes. Most of them will work fine (and relatively cheaply/easily) with low volumes, including gmail. But with automated emails from a forum, the email volume very quickly can rise to a level where the email services want to charge a few hundred $ per month. Think about a long thread like the Word threads; every time there is a post it has to send out dozens or even hundreds of notification emails if posters in that thread have subscribe turned on (and all do here as default to start). Last I looked into it, most forum sites at scale run their own email service for that reason.
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Old February 11th, 2023, 12:15 PM   #6
InvisiBill
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Hopefully this isn't very widely used. Not that I send much email, but my host is similarly listed in their Level 3 blacklist (my subnet is clean, but other blocks owned by the ISP have spam activity on them), and I wasn't even aware of it. I have a daily RBL check against my IP, and this has never shown up on it. I host email for my family members and haven't heard any complaints, so it's a little more traffic than just what I personally send.

They even say that you shouldn't block based on the Level 3 list (just use it as part of something like SpamAssassin to increase its spam score).
Quote:
Use of Level 3 for blocking is recommended only if you are a HARDLINER and you want to cause service providers and carriers that have spammer / abusive clients to be quickly and effectively blocked and it does not matter to you if regular email is also occasionally rejected.
Their Level 3 list is designed specifically to cause collateral damage to pressure ISPs into fixing problems elsewhere in their network. OVH has almost 4.3 million IPs (about .1% of the entire IPv4 space), which are all getting put on this blacklist. For comparison, their Level 1 is generally single IPs that have actually sent spam, though even that has some exceptions for other non-spam "bad behavior".

They do have cheaper 1- ($76) and 2-year ($98) whitelisting plans available, but I'm also in favor of not giving these people any money. But if it comes down to absolutely needing to do it, at least it's not quite so costly.
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Old February 11th, 2023, 01:35 PM   #7
Triple Jim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
Think about a long thread like the Word threads; every time there is a post it has to send out dozens or even hundreds of notification emails if posters in that thread have subscribe turned on (and all do here as default to start).
Does anyone really want email notifications? I always make sure I have that turned off on all the forums I visit. I'd have to be pretty uninterested in a forum to check it so little that I need a email notification when someone replies to a thread.
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Old February 11th, 2023, 04:46 PM   #8
Alex
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Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008

Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE, '15 CRF110F, '13 TT-R50E

Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
Does anyone really want email notifications? I always make sure I have that turned off on all the forums I visit. I'd have to be pretty uninterested in a forum to check it so little that I need a email notification when someone replies to a thread.
Everyone certainly has their own preferences - but you may be incorrect in terms of what others might choose. When I was first building this community 15 years ago, enabling the email notifications provided a tangible feedback loop to get new registrants a positive, interactive introduction to the site. Sign up? Get a welcome email. Post something in the newbie section? Have a personalized automated welcome message, that then also shows up in your email box. It really helped drive a ton of activity. To this day, the vast majority of accounts have notifications turned on. Anyone who doesn't want them, can easily turn them off, so it's not terribly intrusive.

But while post/thread notifications are nice-to-haves, getting emails through for registration, password changes, etc. are a base requirement for functioning forum - email pretty much has to work.
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Old February 13th, 2023, 02:02 AM   #9
Alex
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Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008

Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE, '15 CRF110F, '13 TT-R50E

Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
ninjette.org is still showing up on that blacklist (along with all of the rest of millions of OVH addresses), but it does look like other mail servers are now just ignoring it and the mail is going through same as before.
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