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Old February 26th, 2016, 08:28 AM   #1
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Will EX250R clutch fit in EX250 ?

The quick answer to my question is YES it will. I asked this on another forum last spring, but no feedback lead me to plough my own furrow.

So having put up with the Knock Knock of the old clutch, I finally did some research on a Kawasaki parts site & bought a secondhand 250R clutch basket & hey presto it fits, now the down side is I assumed Kawasaki would only change the basket backing plate to the spring damped one like most bikes have. But they changed the inner basket & the all the plates too ! I asume its a cutback version of a ZX6R with less plates, so I need a whole clutch, which is on order along with a cover gasket & site glass which for some reason cracked !

So if you want to lose that knocking noise from worn clutch bushes that sounds like the big ends are gone, just replace the whole clutch with a 2007-2012 EX250R one I'll update this when I'm finished.
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Old February 26th, 2016, 09:40 AM   #2
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Very interesting
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Old February 26th, 2016, 11:02 AM   #3
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Are you referring to part # 13095?

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Old February 26th, 2016, 01:26 PM   #4
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That picture is the old bikes clutch, so 13095's equivalent from the 2007-2012 model as shown in this link. Note the springs in the clutch driven gear plate, same as most bikes.

http://www.kawasakioriginalparts.com...K8F&country=GB
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Old February 26th, 2016, 01:53 PM   #5
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So will a 300 clutch fit, the part numbers seem to be the same.....?
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Old February 26th, 2016, 01:59 PM   #6
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The part number in the diaqgrams is NOT the actual part number. The 300 has a slipper clutch & much of the engine is different from the 250 so I've no idea. I had to spend money to work this one out. If you have a lucky bike that does not knock, then why bother if like me you have a very noisey clutch its worth the effort.
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Old February 26th, 2016, 02:06 PM   #7
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Model. Part #

PreGen, 13095-1145 HOUSING-COMP-CLUTCH
NewGen, 13095-0097 HOUSING-COMP-CLUTCH
Ninja 300, 13095-0561 HOUSING-COMP-CLUTCH
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Old February 26th, 2016, 02:21 PM   #8
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Just had a look at the 300 clutch, the only part that is different is the centre sleeve as below, so looks like it may fit. I think that part is shorter & minus the circlip to all the slipper part to function. Although 300 clutches may be harder to find.

300
92139 921390773 BUSHING,25X32X29.1 EX300ADF

250R
92139 921390091 BUSHING,25X32X32.1 EX250-F19
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Old February 26th, 2016, 04:41 PM   #9
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Good information. Thank you
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Old February 26th, 2016, 05:52 PM   #10
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Is there a design different between the NewGen Vs PreGen? As in will the NewGen basket develope the same issues over time as the PreGen.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What%27..._the_clutch%3F
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Old February 26th, 2016, 06:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostt View Post
Is there a design different between the NewGen Vs PreGen? As in will the NewGen basket develope the same issues over time as the PreGen.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What%27..._the_clutch%3F
I've definitely heard that knocking noise on a 2008-2012 model before.
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Old February 26th, 2016, 06:21 PM   #12
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I've definitely heard that knocking noise on a 2008-2012 model before.
That what I was wondering if Kawasaki did something about the rubber /plastic which is the cause of the knocking noise

Quote:
So what's the deal with the clutch basket? For reasons yet to be explained, the Kawasaki clutch basket design has hard rubber/plastic bumpers inside the clutch basket assembly, which can disintegrate over time. This allows excessive slop in a system designed to smooth the power delivery from crank to transmission. This slop translates into ugly noise from the motor.
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Old February 27th, 2016, 02:13 AM   #13
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Check out the diagram you posted, the large driven gear of the clutch basket is held on by rivets inside which are plastic buffers that got hard, shrink & compress. When I bought my bike I was going to tear the engine down due to the big end knock. Then some research showed its the worn bushes, see here for full details.
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What's_that_noise_coming_from_the_clutch%3F

On the pic link I posted, the gear has springs in it, which is how most other bikes clutches are. I've reviewed a load of videos on the net & no standard next gen has the knock, but most pre gen vids do.
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Old February 27th, 2016, 05:08 AM   #14
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So if I understand you correctly it's an improved design over the PreGen, and to do the conversation , a person will need the entire clutch assembly? Drum, plates, etc....?

Do you have any pictures?

When you do your final write-up, please include all the part numbers needed.
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Old February 27th, 2016, 07:14 AM   #15
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Check out this link, shows both clutch baskets, the rear shot shows the newgen on left pregen on right, note the springs. The gear tooth count is the same. The inner gear drives the oil pump, it's pressed into place on the pregen, but is on splines on the newgen.

The front shot shows a pregen clutch plate on the newgen basket. The side difference is small but it won't fit. If you were really keen you could file them down & the inner basket rim so it would fit, but that's hard work for little gain, as replacements in future would require a repeat exercise, where as using the designed parts will allow simple replacement later ! And secondhand clutches are cheap.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kcg0auipy...fWBY3anya?dl=0
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Old February 27th, 2016, 09:15 AM   #16
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So what you're saying is, you will need the entire assembly for the swap. Basket, plates, end cap, bolts.

It looks like the pushrod is the same part number from old to new gen but you'll need everything else.
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Old February 28th, 2016, 06:47 AM   #17
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Yes, you need the outer & inner baskets, the plates, both metal & friction, plus the clutch spacer & the clutch pressure plate. The push rods are the same, as are the inner sleeve & sleeve needle bearing, but as far as I can tell that's all. The pressure plate push rod bearing is probably the same but I'm waiting for that part to arrive, will be a day or two.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 02:59 PM   #18
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Have a look at this link for a pic of the new clutch installed. I'm just waiting for clutch cover gasket before I can test it.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kcg0auipy...fWBY3anya?dl=0
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Old March 1st, 2016, 03:28 PM   #19
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Looking forward to the ride report.

I might have to look an eBay for a complete clutch set-up



........... A quick search turned up one for under $100.00 USD, this upgrade looks very doable for that price, just swap over my Barnett ZX600 springs, and go.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Complete-Clu...dWoANX&vxp=mtr
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Old March 1st, 2016, 03:57 PM   #20
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It's not the ride report, I know the clutch will work, but as per this video link, this is what my old clutch made the engine sound like.

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old March 3rd, 2016, 06:14 AM   #21
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So when you get done with this can you give an idiots guide with links to all the part numbers I need?

2 of my 4 ninjettes knock pretty bad.

I guess my other question is, what is the advantage of putting the newer parts in vs just replacing a pregen clutch basket with the original style part?
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 06:28 AM   #22
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Yep, will do. Hoping the gasket will be with me today, so I can take it for a test run on Saturday If the weatehrs bad, it will at least get started warmed up & a short video of the idle noise !

Then I'll do a list for you. I found another thread on here that shows someone fitting the 300 clutch to the current 250, so if you really need a slipper clutch on a 250, its doable, but needs modification of the engine case as the 250 case will not clear the 300's clutch spring bolts. Not sure if the 300 clutch cover will fit on the 250 engine, need someone to check.
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 07:01 AM   #23
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So what is the advantage of putting the 250R clutch basket in?

I'm checking partzilla and the newer clutch basket is $20 more expensive than the older one. If I have to add more parts to that wouldn't I just be better off getting the 250 basket?

Am I correct I have to go to the 300 clutch to get a slipper clutch?
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 07:09 AM   #24
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VaFish, if you had read the thread you would hopefully have realised that this swap is to get rid of the Clutch Knocking noise that makes most old ninja 250 motors sound like the big ends are shot, NO other reason, than to get a quiet bike.

Check out the links & video in the thread for details.

If you want a slipper clutch, then a new Sigma one is around $1000, or a secondhand 300 one could be had for much less ! Your choice, but why they chose to put one on the 300 beats me, but maybe they thought learner bike, they must all be stupid, so make it fool proof ! There is NO reason for a slipper clutch on a small bike, if you know what the clutch lever is for & know how to brake a bike properly.
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 07:38 AM   #25
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So what is the advantage of putting the 250R clutch basket in?

I'm checking partzilla and the newer clutch basket is $20 more expensive than the older one. If I have to add more parts to that wouldn't I just be better off getting the 250 basket?

Am I correct I have to go to the 300 clutch to get a slipper clutch?
The old gen 250 clutch baskets have plastic bushings that will wear out and knock again.

The new gen baskets have springs instead. No more knock!
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 09:29 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by RacinNinja View Post
The old gen 250 clutch baskets have plastic bushings that will wear out and knock again.

The new gen baskets have springs instead. No more knock!
Ahhh, now I got it. Thank you.

So if I'm just fixing up a bike to resell and want to get rid of that loud knocking noise, I can save a few bucks and just replace it with the old style parts.

If on the other hand I want to keep the bike and keep it from knocking again I upgrade to the new parts.
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 09:30 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaFish View Post
Ahhh, now I got it. Thank you.

So if I'm just fixing up a bike to resell and want to get rid of that loud knocking noise, I can save a few bucks and just replace it with the old style parts.

If on the other hand I want to keep the bike and keep it from knocking again I upgrade to the new parts.
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Old March 3rd, 2016, 09:33 AM   #28
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VaFish, if you had read the thread you would hopefully have realised that this swap is to get rid of the Clutch Knocking noise that makes most old ninja 250 motors sound like the big ends are shot, NO other reason, than to get a quiet bike.
I got that, but I didn't understand why I couldn't just put the same type of parts back in and get rid of the noise.

I was trying to figure out why I would spend more money for the 250R parts if a 250 clutch basket would get rid of the noise. Someone else mentioned the slipper clutch which added to my confusion. I don't think I need one.

Now that it has been explained to me that the 250R parts have springs instead of plastic buffers I see the reason to spend extra money.
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Old March 5th, 2016, 03:06 PM   #29
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Yeah it lives. New clutch in, first start on bench, no knock ! I will test tomorrow, but looking good

The newer clutch bolts straight in, so all good there. As a minimum you need the following Nextgen parts;-
1. Outer clutch basket (i.e. The bit with the big gear & shock springs)
2. Oil pump drive gear (fits on back of outer basket, part # 16085 in diagrams)
3. The inner clutch basket
4. The inner clutch basket spacer (this does not exist in the old clutch, part # 92026 in diagrams)
5. All the clutch plates, 5x friction, 4x metal (inner & out friction plates are different from the other three !)
6. The clutch pressure plate & springs/bolts (springs are different from old ones, both length & gauge)

Only one minor modification needed to make this work. When I fitted the clutch cover, the clutch arm was rotating to much & would not fully disengage the clutch. Turns out there is a spacing difference between the old & new pressure plate, such that the clutch actuation rod which sticks out through clutch pressure plate central bearing, can travel to far before doing any work. To cure this, you need to add a 2mm thick washer on the clutch actuator rod, between the shoulder on the rod & the bearing, before fitting the pressure plate. The washer accounts for the extra spacing & the clutch works normally.

I didn't check the clutch pressure plate bearing thickness, they look the same but maybe the older one was thicker if anyone else does this it would be worth checking. If they are the same then rather than using a washer, you could find a thicker bearing with the same ID/OD to take up the space.

Some small advantages of the newer clutch are it feels lighter to actuate as in the pull force on your hand. Whilst I didn't weigh all the components, the fact that the newer clutch is a slightly smaller diameter with slightly smaller parts throughout it should be a little lighter & thus the engine should spin up faster. Anecdotal first start saw it idle at 3000rpm on the choke, which it has never done before, it always needed 4-5000rpm or it would stall !

I'll post a little video of startup shortly.

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Old March 6th, 2016, 06:22 AM   #30
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/g613pb76ow..._3405.MOV?dl=0

It lives, no KNOCKING Me very happy
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Old March 26th, 2016, 11:18 AM   #31
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Old May 7th, 2016, 07:26 PM   #32
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Okay, well I might be forced to do this. SERENITY started making a weird noise apon engine braking. It sounds like something is not right with the clutch.

It's not slipping, and still firm, so I'm assuming those little plastic buffers might have gone on vacation, and not coming back.

I will have to wait for some free time to do some exploratory surgery, but I have a line on a complete set up for a reasonable price. So any doubts, and I'll be doing this.

Personally my thoughts are if I have to go through changing the basket, might as well replace it with a better one. Even if I have to do an R.D.I. I might as well go for it.

I like modifications that add more durability, and dependability it's a win, win as far as I'm concerned.

@Mohawk,or anyone else whom might know, will the NewGen clutch cover fit on a PreGen?

They both use the same gasket, so I'm thinking yes??

Here's a picture of a NewGen cover, inside


And PreGen


Anyone??
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Old May 8th, 2016, 01:42 AM   #33
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As far as I can tell it's the same part from the ZZR250 that they used on the newgen 250R, so yes it should fit.
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Old May 8th, 2016, 02:09 AM   #34
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If the noise is on engine braking, I'd check the Camchain tensioner, the clutch noise is normally only evident at idle in neutral !
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Old May 8th, 2016, 02:55 AM   #35
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@Mohawk

I've already checked the CCT, and didn't find anything obviously wrong with it, but just in case a new one has been ordered, and is on its way.

I figured with 37,000+ miles on it, it wouldn't be a bad idea to just replace the CCT anyway, and I'm thinking the same about the basket as well.

The clutch does make the typical idle noise, along with the new mystery noise, which sounds like something I've never heard a Ninjette engine make til now.

So as I said if I've got to go thru all trouble of removing the basket to inspect it anyway, I might as well replace it with the NewGen basket and be done with it.

Is there anymore information on the swap you'd like to share, forgot, or add?

Thanks again in advance, cheers
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Old May 8th, 2016, 03:10 AM   #36
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@Mohawk

Quote:
Only one minor modification needed to make this work. When I fitted the clutch cover, the clutch arm was rotating to much & would not fully disengage the clutch. Turns out there is a spacing difference between the old & new pressure plate, such that the clutch actuation rod which sticks out through clutch pressure plate central bearing, can travel to far before doing any work. To cure this, you need to add a 2mm thick washer on the clutch actuator rod, between the shoulder on the rod & the bearing, before fitting the pressure plate. The washer accounts for the extra spacing & the clutch works normally.
Could you once again explain where exactly the washer goes? Pictures? Etc.....

Which side of the rod? Look at the diagram below, does it go to the right of the rod part # 46102? In between 46102 and 92045?

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Old May 8th, 2016, 10:10 AM   #37
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Part 46102 has a collar in the middle & a cut out on the right side that goes through the clutch pressure plate centre bearing. The spacer goes bitween the collar & the bearing, in effect a second collar if you get my meaning. Don't make it to wide, as it has to act on the bearings inner race.i
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Old May 8th, 2016, 10:35 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk View Post
Part 46102 has a collar in the middle & a cut out on the right side that goes through the clutch pressure plate centre bearing. The spacer goes bitween the collar & the bearing, in effect a second collar if you get my meaning. Don't make it to wide, as it has to act on the bearings inner race.i

Okay, that's what I thought like a shim, I just wanted to 100% sure, thanks

I'll wait to pull the trigger on the NewGen basket til I see what difference the new CCT makes.
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Old May 8th, 2016, 06:06 PM   #39
InvisiBill
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Just for easy reference...
PreGen Clutch Diagram
NewGen Clutch Diagram


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk View Post
I didn't check the clutch pressure plate bearing thickness, they look the same but maybe the older one was thicker if anyone else does this it would be worth checking. If they are the same then rather than using a washer, you could find a thicker bearing with the same ID/OD to take up the space.
They are different part numbers. 92045-1408 for the PreGen and 92045-0067 for the NewGen. They could very well be slightly different sizes. The pressure plate is a slightly different number too, 13187-1057 vs. 13187-0015, and the rod itself is 46102-1030 vs. 46102-0114. Between all of those, you might be able to get the right spacing without adding a washer. This would probably be easiest to figure out for someone with both a PreGen and NewGen to experiment on.


Knowing absolutely nothing about the 250 clutch, and almost nothing about the 500 clutch, has anyone investigated the idea of swapping that in? I know the 4-bolt clutch has been mentioned as an issue on some of the modded bikes with more power. The 500 and 250 share some parts, but are completely different on others, so I'm not sure how well the clutches would mate up.

I assume that I'm not the first person to think of this, and I'd guess there's a size difference, but I thought I'd toss it out there just in case. The 500 clutch comes from an even bigger bike, and its biggest weakness seems to be soft OEM springs for an easy lever pull. If it's an easy-ish swap, it could be another option for the guys doing crazier builds.
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Old May 10th, 2016, 12:22 AM   #40
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I'm probably not going to do this at this time. Reasons being while I was searching eBay endlessly, I stumbled upon a PreGen from an 06 for dirt cheap, and it came from a parts bike with only 700 miles!!!

I'll keep searching and when I find a deal, then I'll pull the trigger.
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