June 3rd, 2009, 09:41 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nico
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Posts: 52
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Hanging Idle
Hello,
I can't seem to figure out the problem of my hanging idle. Most times it will go back to normal idle at 1500rpm, but sometimes it will stay at 1800 to 2100 and really slowly go back down to normal. It only does it when warmed up, from what i can tell, the warmer the engine, the worse it gets. I've read other forums and people seem to think vacuum leak would be the biggest cause, followed by: out of sync carbs, float bowl level low, valves need adjusting, o-rings in carbs where the needle sits, needle diaphragm punctured. I've tried adjusting mixture screw, and now I am at 1.8 turns, which seems pretty low.
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'08 Ninja 250R: Yoshi Full System, HID's, FP Jet Kit, Snorkel removed, LED Brakelight, LED Footpeg Turnsignals, Zero Gravity SR Windscreen, Fender Eliminator, Solo Seat Cowl, Woodcraft Clip-Ons |
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June 3rd, 2009, 10:08 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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what are your jetting specs? intake and exhaust mods?
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June 3rd, 2009, 10:16 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nico
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Posts: 52
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snorkel removed, but airbox is still there, yoshi full exhaust
#100 main, factory pro needle, clip in the 3rd position idle mix screw 1.8 turns out, the best i can tell (that milwaukee screw driver is not the accurate, it has some slack in it.) This all started when i put on my exhaust and the re-jet, i completely took me carbs out, which leads me to vacuum leak or internal carb problem. Bikes got 760 miles on it
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'08 Ninja 250R: Yoshi Full System, HID's, FP Jet Kit, Snorkel removed, LED Brakelight, LED Footpeg Turnsignals, Zero Gravity SR Windscreen, Fender Eliminator, Solo Seat Cowl, Woodcraft Clip-Ons |
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June 3rd, 2009, 10:36 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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sounds like your idle mixture is too lean. I used the alternate method in this lnk.
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...dle_mixture%3F |
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June 3rd, 2009, 10:45 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nico
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Posts: 52
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all right, i will try that tomorrow, but when i first put on my exhaust, i had it set at 2.5, and when i blip the throttle it would go below idle and the raise again, but the idle would hang also...
i will try it anyway, see what happens, its easier that the alternative, which is to remove the carbs and carefully inspect everything
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'08 Ninja 250R: Yoshi Full System, HID's, FP Jet Kit, Snorkel removed, LED Brakelight, LED Footpeg Turnsignals, Zero Gravity SR Windscreen, Fender Eliminator, Solo Seat Cowl, Woodcraft Clip-Ons |
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June 3rd, 2009, 10:49 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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was the bike fully warmed up when you were setting the idle? I rode mine around for 10-15 minutes, came home, then worked on setting the idle.
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June 3rd, 2009, 10:54 PM | #7 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nico
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Posts: 52
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well, what i did is since 2.5 was too rich i rode it around for an hour, went home and changed it to 2.0. Rode around another hour and still felt to rich as the throttle was still dropping below idle, so I set it to 1.8. not perfect though.
I also noticed that the choke would not work with 2.5 screws out. It would actually get so rich that it would kill the bike. Now at 1.8, I actually have to use the choke to start it in the morning, usually raises RPM by 400-700 than without choke.
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'08 Ninja 250R: Yoshi Full System, HID's, FP Jet Kit, Snorkel removed, LED Brakelight, LED Footpeg Turnsignals, Zero Gravity SR Windscreen, Fender Eliminator, Solo Seat Cowl, Woodcraft Clip-Ons |
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June 3rd, 2009, 10:58 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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Something doesn't sound right.
try adjusting the idle using the link and see what happens. If you can't make any progress, remove the carb tops and check the diaphragms for tears. |
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June 3rd, 2009, 11:11 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Georgia
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It sounds like you are to lean.
http://www.factorypro.com/tech_tunin...m_engines.html Look at 4. Idle and low rpm cruise |
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June 4th, 2009, 01:07 PM | #10 |
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Name: Joe
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I get a flat spot at 4000 in 1st, 5000 in 2nd and I think 6000 in 3rd. Theres is nothing. the bike revs higher but doesnt go any faster. Is that normal for all stock?
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June 5th, 2009, 11:12 PM | #11 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nico
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Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Posts: 52
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OK, I took my bike apart, looked at the diaphragm and they look fine, but i read in another threat that they should not be touched. How come?
Before i took it apart, I started it, and sprayed the pipe coming from the carb to the cylinder with starter fluid, and it suddenly picked up rpm, so maybe a vacuum leak. Now i'm trying to put the bike back together, but i cant figure out about the 3 way split above the cylinder. One goes to the vacuum valve, and I'm not sure where the other 2 go.
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'08 Ninja 250R: Yoshi Full System, HID's, FP Jet Kit, Snorkel removed, LED Brakelight, LED Footpeg Turnsignals, Zero Gravity SR Windscreen, Fender Eliminator, Solo Seat Cowl, Woodcraft Clip-Ons Last futzed with by ak_907_ak; June 6th, 2009 at 12:24 AM. |
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June 6th, 2009, 01:10 AM | #12 |
That's me!
Name: TJ
Location: Ames, IA
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r (Tis blue), 2008 CBR600RR Posts: 454
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That's the best way to find a vacuum leak. I had that similar problem with a supercharged vehicle and it took me forever to track down! Sure enough I had a couple of tees (one for the boost gauge, one for the blow off-valve, etc.) and the rubber hose around one of the tees started to crack and would leak intermitently. So spraying the ether on it didn't diagnose it then. It was finally me jiggling the hell out of the hoses and watching a vacuum gauge to find it. You got lucky
As for the vacuum ports, on the left cylinder (when sitting atop the bike) goes to the port in front of the carburetor, ties into the vacuum valve for the fuel, and if you still have the Klean air system the other side goes to that. Although I still have a 3 way tee there and have a check port for sync'ing the carburetors (maybe you put a test port there and forgot about it?) |
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June 6th, 2009, 04:10 PM | #13 | |
IC2(SW)
Name: Kerry
Location: Pensacola
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
You have to be real careful spraying carb cleaner/starter fluid around. Even minutes after it looks like it has dried up..... It's still flammable. Dude in our shop almost burned an old chevy blazer to ground looking for a vacuum leak with that stuff |
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June 6th, 2009, 06:19 PM | #14 |
self wrencher
Name: john
Location: houston
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Spray on hot running engine? What if it catch fire?
Posted via Mobile Device |
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June 6th, 2009, 08:31 PM | #15 |
That's me!
Name: TJ
Location: Ames, IA
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Well you aren't spraying it ON the engine you're spraying it at the vacuum lines. That and being highly flameable in gasseous form, if you fog out an engine bay looking for vacuum leaks you are setting yourself up for disaster. I've always done quick burst (that's all it takes). Never tried water, but that's a good idea. Is the RPM drop as noticeable as the RPM raise that ether causes?
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June 7th, 2009, 11:42 AM | #16 |
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Name: Joe
Location: Buffalo NY
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June 7th, 2009, 08:13 PM | #17 |
R&T Suspension
Name: K Hertell
Location: San Antonio, TEXAS
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If the bike sat for more than a couple weeks it is most likely dirty pilot jets.
Don't spray carb cleaner in the carbs EVER!! Must remove carbs to clean. |
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June 8th, 2009, 12:09 AM | #18 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nico
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Posts: 52
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Well, I went for a 140 mile test ride today, the longest trip I have taken on the 250.
I gotta say that stock seat is pretty uncomfortable, and the fuel gauge is pretty useless. It goes from 8/8 to 5/8 in the first 10 miles, and then stays at 5/8 for the next 40 miles. Even though I didn't do much low rpm driving, as most of the way was 60-70mph, I didn't seem to get hanging idles, and the choke seems to work too. My only problem is the idle is inconsistent. I've got it set at 1600, but sometimes it will go to 1800 and sometimes only to 1200 (I find 1300 is way to low for idle, 1500-1600 seems to be the best). The mixture idle screws are set at 2 turns out. I've got a GPS program on my IPhone, I just put it in my pocket and it tracks my ride for me.
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'08 Ninja 250R: Yoshi Full System, HID's, FP Jet Kit, Snorkel removed, LED Brakelight, LED Footpeg Turnsignals, Zero Gravity SR Windscreen, Fender Eliminator, Solo Seat Cowl, Woodcraft Clip-Ons |
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June 8th, 2009, 03:03 AM | #19 |
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Name: Ken
Location: NY
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June 8th, 2009, 02:39 PM | #20 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nico
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Posts: 52
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It's called Motion-X GPS. Costs 5 bucks. It will also tell you you speed, average speed and max speed, which way your heading and has a waypoint feature.
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'08 Ninja 250R: Yoshi Full System, HID's, FP Jet Kit, Snorkel removed, LED Brakelight, LED Footpeg Turnsignals, Zero Gravity SR Windscreen, Fender Eliminator, Solo Seat Cowl, Woodcraft Clip-Ons |
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June 9th, 2009, 08:47 AM | #21 |
R&T Suspension
Name: K Hertell
Location: San Antonio, TEXAS
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I think your pilots are still dirty since the idle is going up and down.
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June 9th, 2009, 09:25 AM | #22 | |
Psychic war veteran
Name: Thomas
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Kawi Green '09 Ninja ZX6R Posts: 663
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Quote:
As for your fuel level gauge, its a CLASSIC indication of a bad fuel level sender. It's about a 1 hour fix to replace, start to finish, assuming your bike is in full trim. Take it back and have the shop you bought it from replace it, if you're still under warranty. Otherwise, get a confirmed good one off of ebay and do it yourself, all of the torque specs are in the service manual.
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* If you're arguing with some idiot over the internet, chances are pretty good he's doing the same thing! Zodiac Mindwarp and the Love Reaction |
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June 9th, 2009, 11:12 PM | #23 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Joe
Location: Buffalo NY
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Quote:
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June 9th, 2009, 11:29 PM | #24 | ||
ninjette.org member
Name: Nico
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Posts: 52
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Quote:
Though it has been like that since I've got it and it's only got 940 miles on it. Is there a DIY maybe here or on some other forum so I can get a general idea of what is involved? Quote:
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'08 Ninja 250R: Yoshi Full System, HID's, FP Jet Kit, Snorkel removed, LED Brakelight, LED Footpeg Turnsignals, Zero Gravity SR Windscreen, Fender Eliminator, Solo Seat Cowl, Woodcraft Clip-Ons |
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June 10th, 2009, 10:12 PM | #25 |
That's me!
Name: TJ
Location: Ames, IA
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r (Tis blue), 2008 CBR600RR Posts: 454
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A good solution would be to A) get an inline fuel filter and
B) If you don't put a ton of miles on the bike, run carb cleaner (the stuff you pour in your tank) periodically. The stuff is meant to treat 15 or so gallons, so with a 4.8 or so gallon tank you can run 1/3 of a bottle every couple of fill-ups. The 10% ethanol in fuel wreaks hell on the little pilot jets and main jets of these carbs so a little preventative maintenance is king IMO. |
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June 10th, 2009, 10:23 PM | #26 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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check the clamps that hold the carbs to the cylinder head on the rubber manifold thingy. if they are loose, you might have an air leak through there that could be the source of the idle problem.
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June 10th, 2009, 11:29 PM | #27 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nico
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Posts: 52
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Quote:
As for the fuel stabilizer, I added stabil when i put it in storage for the winter, is that what your talking about? I should still have some left.
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'08 Ninja 250R: Yoshi Full System, HID's, FP Jet Kit, Snorkel removed, LED Brakelight, LED Footpeg Turnsignals, Zero Gravity SR Windscreen, Fender Eliminator, Solo Seat Cowl, Woodcraft Clip-Ons |
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June 10th, 2009, 11:32 PM | #28 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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try to find some Seafoam, if you can. just add some to your gas.
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June 10th, 2009, 11:36 PM | #29 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nico
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Posts: 52
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[QUOTE=kkim;67587]try to find some Seafoam, if you can. just add some to your gas.
I used that stuff before on my car, makes a huge cloud of white smoke. i will put it just in gas, but it can also be put in the crankcase(oil) and one more place, i forgot.
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'08 Ninja 250R: Yoshi Full System, HID's, FP Jet Kit, Snorkel removed, LED Brakelight, LED Footpeg Turnsignals, Zero Gravity SR Windscreen, Fender Eliminator, Solo Seat Cowl, Woodcraft Clip-Ons |
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June 10th, 2009, 11:40 PM | #30 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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yep, gas, crankcase and directly into the intake port by using a vacuum line. You want to get the seafoam into the carbs, which is why I suggested putting it into the gas.
have used it on a number of my older cars/trucks and yes... it makes a HUGE cloud of white smoke when inhaled through an intake vacuum port. |
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June 10th, 2009, 11:50 PM | #31 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nico
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Posts: 52
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next sunday, i will try to get some seafoam by friday, and sunday, if the foam doesn't help, ill take it apart look at the pilot jets.
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'08 Ninja 250R: Yoshi Full System, HID's, FP Jet Kit, Snorkel removed, LED Brakelight, LED Footpeg Turnsignals, Zero Gravity SR Windscreen, Fender Eliminator, Solo Seat Cowl, Woodcraft Clip-Ons |
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June 11th, 2009, 05:20 AM | #32 | |
Psychic war veteran
Name: Thomas
Location: Norfolk, VA
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Quote:
I'll do a write up here shortly. I have a bad sender that I'll open up and show you all what's going on inside it and why it's bad and what else goes wrong with them.
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* If you're arguing with some idiot over the internet, chances are pretty good he's doing the same thing! Zodiac Mindwarp and the Love Reaction |
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June 13th, 2009, 02:17 PM | #33 |
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Sounds good
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June 14th, 2009, 08:31 PM | #34 |
R&T Suspension
Name: K Hertell
Location: San Antonio, TEXAS
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Sea Foam is a waste, just ake 'em apart and fix it. Takes less than 2 hours.
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