When to counter-steer? - Page 4

nickjpass · June 12th, 2012, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

same deal, but you are dealing with a lot more traction, so the forces you are dealing with (braking forces, acceleration forces) are also much higher than on the dirt. The slightest difference in throttle control makes a huge difference while sliding the rear on the pavement compared to the dirt. Especially trying to pull the rear tire back in by closing the throttle a bit. If you are too quick it catches really fast and you go flying off the bike.

highside

Jim Moore · June 14th, 2012, 08:29 AM

I'll throw in my two cents, as if anyone cares. First, I've seen several people in this thread say something to the effect of, "I don't think about countersteering. It just happens." That's the wrong attitude to have. Here's why. You will be able to get through the vast majority of your motorcycling life doing just what you're doing. You can kinda look where you want to go, kinda flop your bike over, and it will kinda turn.

That's all fine and good, but someday you'll goon it up. Someday you will enter a turn way too fast, or a turn will tighten up unexpectedly. If you have spent your motorcycling life "not really thinking about countersteeriing," you're screwed. You're not going to be able to invent that skill in the second or so you have to fix your problem. You'll freeze on the handgrips and ride off into the woods. It happens all the time. You'd be better off thinking about your technique for every turn and being very deliberate. Look into the turn. Press on the handgrip. Roll on the throttle. If you do that all the time, you'll develop the ability to ask that little extra out of your bike when you need it.

Someone else said they don't think about countersteering at the track. Here's some advice. Start thinking about it. Use a firm countersteering input to get the bike flipped on its side as quickly as possible. All the time you spend going from straight up-and-down from leaned over is essentially wasted. You're not braking, you're not (really) turning, and you're not accelerating. Use countersteering to get the bike turning quickly. You will be able to move your brake markers in, and also make the turn more easily.

headshrink · June 14th, 2012, 11:35 AM

Agreed.

I was just having a conversation with someone that was very similar, although the subject in that case was aviation. The principle is the same though... theory IS important because one day you WILL need to apply it practically. However, in this case we are also talking about everyday application.

headshrink · June 14th, 2012, 11:36 AM

My challenge to all = say something that has not been said about the topic that still contributes to the original discussion.

Alex · June 14th, 2012, 12:08 PM

"still contributes" is quite a low bar.

headshrink · June 14th, 2012, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

"still contributes" is quite a low bar.

LOL, yes.... and quite relative too.

CZroe · June 18th, 2012, 12:25 PM

They were pretty clear during my MSF BRC: You must know counter-steering for emergency swerves, which require two rapid counter inputs.

mst · May 17th, 2016, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by headshrink

Agreed.

I was just having a conversation with someone that was very similar, although the subject in that case was aviation. .

Pitch vs power ?

headshrink · May 17th, 2016, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mst

Pitch vs power ?

Who knows... that was 4 years ago.

June 14th, 2012, 08:29 AM	#122
Jim Moore ninjette.org member Name: Jim Location: Jax, FL Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Ninjette, 98 CBR600, 98 VFR800, 2000 BMW R1100RS, Kymco Movie 150 Posts: 146	I'll throw in my two cents, as if anyone cares. First, I've seen several people in this thread say something to the effect of, "I don't think about countersteering. It just happens." That's the wrong attitude to have. Here's why. You will be able to get through the vast majority of your motorcycling life doing just what you're doing. You can kinda look where you want to go, kinda flop your bike over, and it will kinda turn. That's all fine and good, but someday you'll goon it up. Someday you will enter a turn way too fast, or a turn will tighten up unexpectedly. If you have spent your motorcycling life "not really thinking about countersteeriing," you're screwed. You're not going to be able to invent that skill in the second or so you have to fix your problem. You'll freeze on the handgrips and ride off into the woods. It happens all the time. You'd be better off thinking about your technique for every turn and being very deliberate. Look into the turn. Press on the handgrip. Roll on the throttle. If you do that all the time, you'll develop the ability to ask that little extra out of your bike when you need it. Someone else said they don't think about countersteering at the track. Here's some advice. Start thinking about it. Use a firm countersteering input to get the bike flipped on its side as quickly as possible. All the time you spend going from straight up-and-down from leaned over is essentially wasted. You're not braking, you're not (really) turning, and you're not accelerating. Use countersteering to get the bike turning quickly. You will be able to move your brake markers in, and also make the turn more easily. __________________________________________________ Jim Moore Jax, FL

June 14th, 2012, 11:35 AM	#123
headshrink ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Bob Location: CA Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250r, '14 CBR500r Posts: A lot.	Agreed. I was just having a conversation with someone that was very similar, although the subject in that case was aviation. The principle is the same though... theory IS important because one day you WILL need to apply it practically. However, in this case we are also talking about everyday application. __________________________________________________ Honda Interceptor VFR800 DLX (2014, 8th gen) Honda CBR500r (2014) - FOR SALE Kawi Ninja 250r (2008) - Restored and passed-down within family, only to be abandoned

June 14th, 2012, 11:36 AM	#124
headshrink ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Bob Location: CA Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250r, '14 CBR500r Posts: A lot.	My challenge to all = say something that has not been said about the topic that still contributes to the original discussion. __________________________________________________ Honda Interceptor VFR800 DLX (2014, 8th gen) Honda CBR500r (2014) - FOR SALE Kawi Ninja 250r (2008) - Restored and passed-down within family, only to be abandoned

June 14th, 2012, 12:08 PM	#125
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	"still contributes" is quite a low bar. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

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June 18th, 2012, 12:25 PM	#127
CZroe CPT Falcon Name: J.Emmett Turner Location: Newnan, GA Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.	They were pretty clear during my MSF BRC: You must know counter-steering for emergency swerves, which require two rapid counter inputs.