Going the speed limit

[Vegedurden]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

Braking is the single largest performance advantage cars have over bikes.

Close, but that's not the whole picture. Given the larger contact surface a car has to the road (4 wide rectangles) compared to a bike's (two small ovals), a car can put more force on its tires before they lose grip. That helps with braking (force towards the front), but also with pure corner speed (force directed sideways).

Cheers,
Vegedurden

[Xoulrath]

But it is the whole picture. Why it happens doesn't really matter.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a "yeah, but HOW does it work?" kinda guy. For simplicity, it is much easier to simply state what I stated. And cars aren't faster than bikes on all corners. It depends on the corner. Fast sweepers are a good example of a type of corner a bike can leave a car on. Minimal lean angle allows higher speed, and the bike's acceleration advantage can be used.

There are plenty of great comparisons by reputable sources on the web. Bikes win some, cars win some. In the end, F1 is faster than MotoGP.

Sorry to go off-topic (again).

[algerath]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

But it is the whole picture. Why it happens doesn't really matter.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a "yeah, but HOW does it work?" kinda guy. For simplicity, it is much easier to simply state what I stated. And cars aren't faster than bikes on all corners. It depends on the corner. Fast sweepers are a good example of a type of corner a bike can leave a car on. Minimal lean angle allows higher speed, and the bike's acceleration advantage can be used.

There are plenty of great comparisons by reputable sources on the web. Bikes win some, cars win some. In the end, F1 is faster than MotoGP.

Sorry to go off-topic (again).

But the "why" is the fun part of the discussion, I learned some new stuff going back and forth on the why part.

As far as F1 faster than motogp, they of course have 4 big sticky race tires, AND they have huge amount of aero downforce, which if I understand it correctly, provides added grip as if the car were a lot heavier without the additional inertia it would have if it really were heavier. So you get the grip benefits without the weight drawbacks.

I vaguely remember an interview with an IRL driver at the Indy 500 a year or two back, they were saying there was a gap of speeds in which you couldn't go around the corners, below speed x and you made it on tire grip, above sped y and there was enough downforce to go around flat out, but if you didn't make it to speed y before the corner you basically had to slow to speed x. I'll try to find it.

[Boom King]

^^^^ Yup. Without downforce, those F1 cars would be slipping and sliding out all over the corners at the type of speeds we see today even if they had the stickiest rubber tires and strongest brakes you could ever make. An F1 car is able to develop roughly 3.5 Gs lateral cornering force. That's enough force to make the car drive upside down... theoretically speaking. Downforce only produces a significant effect at a certain velocity. On an F1 car, I believe it produces a downforce equal to its weight at around 140 km/h.

[Vegedurden]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

But it is the whole picture.

No, because it means that the car can brake later (better brakes) and cary more speed through the corner (better grip in the corner, so needs to brake less). Double effect.

Definitely off-topic, definitely fun and interesting to discuss, imo

Alex: hadn't thought about the aero effect, good point, exactly how you described it.

Cheers !
Vegedurden

[demp]

Originally Posted by alex.s

what is this "speed limit" you speak of?

when your speed exceeds your grip

[kawigirl]

I don't mean to ride in 6th gear all the time..it just happens somehow..speeding is an incurable disease with me.. Oops.

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by LazinCajun

Slowing down slightly before an intersection is the safest thing to do for three big reasons:

1) If you slow down a little as you're coming into an intersection, you actually can reduce your stopping distance dramatically. If you do the physics the distance it takes to stop is like a parabola: it's some number times speed squared. Since that curve gets steeper as the speed is bigger, slowing from 50-0 takes a significantly longer distance than 40-0. Even though the speed is only 25% greater, the stopping distance is 56% greater, all other things being equal (!!!).

2) If you do actually get in an accident, you're less likely to be hurt at the slower speed. Duh.

3) If you're going a little slower, you have more time to react AND more traction available if you decide that swerving is the right answer (for many bad situations, emergency braking is the better answer, as mentioned earlier).

[OGjackafidy]

i usually go from 5 -20 over whatever feels comfortable to cruise at but i definatley slow down to 30 35 at most intersections cause people just dont see bikes coming half the time. a few weeks ago i was at a stoplight and and old latley ran into me with her minivan because "she didnt see me" bike was all good cause she just hit the tire but i though i had just dropped the clutch only to look down and it was in nuetral and there was a hood of a van under my passengers seat

[CC Cowboy]

Remember, the speed limit is the maximum speed for ideal conditions as set by the government. The government is never wrong and riding over the limit is dangerous and could result in life threatening situations.

[Alex]

[subiegy2010]

Originally Posted by theredsox

Off topic, but for KawiKid, to compare my Subaru Wrx ('04) and the ninja ('11)

- $24,495 vs $3999
- 0-60 is 5.2-6s for both
- 60-0 in ~107 ft vs ~121.5 ft
- Cornering is hard to provide numbers, but in real world conditions with roads that aren't always clean, pretty sure the subby would be faster 9 of 10 times. All wheel drive is a force to recon with.

Under-steer is a force to recon with. But yeah, I agree with everything you said. (fellow WRX owner)

[Suave]

Originally Posted by blink

I only go speed limit in

1.playground zones
2.school zones
3. if theres a cop

=]

+1, don't speed in a stupid place to speed. But for the most part, i view "speed limits" as "speed suggestions".

minus rule #3, cops here are told to not chase sports bikes because it can lead to an unsafe pursuit. So as long as their is no chance they have my license plate... imma keep on a goin'

[thisisbenji]

In some areas you need to go the school speed all the time. I mean there could very easily be some sort of after school activity going on outside of school hours. That's what the police officer giving me safety class after one of my speeding tickets told me anyways. (Speeding in a construction zone ugh...) I was going about 64 in a 65 and I didn't slow down fast enough going into the construction zone and they got me for 19 over. (Said construction zone was really just some flashing things on the side of the road they set up the day before).

Originally Posted by blink

also completely irrelevant I hate when people do 30 in school zones outside of the posted time!

[GeorgiaHooligan]

I dont pay attention to the speedometer.

[KawiKid860]

Well after all this great information on this thread I've got about 730ish miles on the bike and I have a speed cycle set out, i usually do 40-45 in a 35 depending on traffic and how I'm feeling but I'll do bursts of 50-60 if need be to get around idiots or something. Today there was a cop going down the same street I was and he had a pack of 4 cars + me behind him (4 lane road, 2 going each direction) because no one wanted to go around him lol.. but my speedo was reading about 38-39 in a 35 and like 47 in a 40 so I hope it isn't off THAT bad the cop was probably speeding... Then there's always the idiot that does like 10 under when they see a cop.. I've been getting plenty of city riding for practice, I try and get some seat time every day, Still makin nooby mistakes of course but I'm learning I really need to replace my bent clutch lever it makes clutch control a PITA sometimes :P

[Lil_Green_Demon]

I live in SoCal. For the most part, even cars in the slow lane are doing 75+ mph.
I tend to remain at or slightly above speed limit on the streets. On the highway? The fastest I've gone was 90, but that was just to keep up with some other riders who were pulling away rather quickly because my 75 mph limit was too slow for them. (I'm looking at you, HB! )
Usually I stick to ~70-80 mph on the highway.

[Kevin2109]

Lol my speed limit is usually gauged off of conditions around me. If there are a lot of people on the freeway ill go just a tad faster then the speed limit. If its an open freeway you can bet your ass I'm cruising at 100-120mph no prob (depending on what bike I'm on lol)

In the streets I'm usually about 10-20mph above the speed limit, again all depending on conditions
Posted via Mobile Device

[ninja250]

I do 70mph on the freeway when it's 65. 75 in the carpool lane. 72mph when speed is 70.
These seem to be magic numbers around which cops either
A) don't notice motorcycles or
B) don't give a damn.

I've had my share of "play tickets". Plenty of points. Have to keep my stuff straight for a while. Trying to repair a damaged record.

It's only when the jerks all over SoCal try to run me out of my lane that I need to go any faster or the freeway is dead empty, then I may cut loose a bit too.

I like taking my time on my rides, I don't like to speed up the time I am on my bike. (unless freezing my buns off on the way to work etc)
I look cooler for longer going slower too I think lol.

I try and limit my lane splitting to 38mph. that one speaks for itself.
I know people who don't lane split and I don't blame them at all.

[blink]

Speeding works if you are smart...

Playground and school zones; NEVER, not even 1 over... they WILL get you and ticket you.
Construction zones, If you are going 1-3 over usually you'll be fine, but what's the point? Better be safe than sorry.
50km/h zones, I tend to not speed because cops will usually hang out on those types of roads.

80km/h ...usually end up doing 120 because I have an eye for cops and not just a dumb ass flying through traffic, cops do not set up radars on inter city highways (not where I live) partly because there is nowhere to setup. Only way people get pulled over is because they don't see the cops around them and they are stupid or don't see the photo radar van...which is sad and if you can't see them you shouldn't even consider speeding because it shows you can't be attentive to getting a ticket let alone speeding and safety (don't argue my point please for the sake of the thread)

On the 100/110/km/h bikes will take it over 150 and I hit 225 the other day...thing is on that freeway during late evening hours there is hardly any cars on parts of the road.
Cops will not pull bikers over for doing 130-140 because there is no point unless it's dangerous lane splitting.

Now don't think our cops don't care. They just can't do anything if you're flying down at over 200km/h.

So it all comes to show that speeding is possible to do safely and in a smart way without getting tickets. Also most people think if you are smart and safe you can always speed...no.
People who always speed, don't know how to speed.

[blink]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Remember, the speed limit is the maximum speed for ideal conditions as set by the government. The government is never wrong and riding over the limit is dangerous and could result in life threatening situations.

This is not correct.

Half the time the speed limit is completely irrelevant to road conditions even under no traffic.

They have 40 zones when they should be 70 or 80.

Now MAYBE I can't speak for your city, but I can for mine because I know the roads.

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by blink

This is not correct.

Half the time the speed limit is completely irrelevant to road conditions even under no traffic.

They have 40 zones when they should be 70 or 80.

Now MAYBE I can't speak for your city, but I can for mine because I know the roads.

lordy

[blink]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

lordy

double lordy

[Alex]

Someone doesn't realize they are being trolled.....

[rusninja]

Originally Posted by blink

Speeding works if you are smart...

Playground and school zones; NEVER, not even 1 over... they WILL get you and ticket you.
Construction zones, If you are going 1-3 over usually you'll be fine, but what's the point? Better be safe than sorry.
50km/h zones, I tend to not speed because cops will usually hang out on those types of roads.

80km/h ...usually end up doing 120 because I have an eye for cops and not just a dumb ass flying through traffic, cops do not set up radars on inter city highways (not where I live) partly because there is nowhere to setup. Only way people get pulled over is because they don't see the cops around them and they are stupid or don't see the photo radar van...which is sad and if you can't see them you shouldn't even consider speeding because it shows you can't be attentive to getting a ticket let alone speeding and safety (don't argue my point please for the sake of the thread)

On the 100/110/km/h bikes will take it over 150 and I hit 225 the other day...thing is on that freeway during late evening hours there is hardly any cars on parts of the road.
Cops will not pull bikers over for doing 130-140 because there is no point unless it's dangerous lane splitting.

Now don't think our cops don't care. They just can't do anything if you're flying down at over 200km/h.

So it all comes to show that speeding is possible to do safely and in a smart way without getting tickets. Also most people think if you are smart and safe you can always speed...no.
People who always speed, don't know how to speed.

Speeding is never smart because there is always more risk and being smart is ditching the unnecessary risk.

[Sinister]

Originally Posted by rusninja

Speeding is never smart because there is always more risk and being smart is ditching the unnecessary risk.

By that rationale you shouldn't be on a bike in the first place. You should be in a nice safe car.

[rusninja]

Originally Posted by Sinister

By that rationale you shouldn't be on a bike in the first place. You should be in a nice safe car.

Na ill stick to what i want but im not going to be a total dumb... about it, riding/driving is a privilege and if you go around thinking your smarter then the law someday it will catch up to you. I speed sometimes, in a car be like 10 mph shoot i still know im doing wrong. But it all comes down to reaction if your speeding and something pops up will you be screwed because you cant stop in time? Speeding is never smart that was my point if you dont speed then your a saint but if you do dont go off like your smart about it.

Blink talking about how he went 225km in a 100/110 what is he 17, cars or not on the freeway if he keeps up that speed and thinks he smart he needs to rethink his way about speeding before he ends up a meat waffle as they say on a center divider or a tree god knows what because we all knows sht happens.

So please dont go acting like i am afraid because you dont know me but if you did in person i admit i wouldnt come off anyway as smart but im not stupid, Currently i have no motorcycle but with my family and some friends telling me i am pretty much going to die i dont really pay attention because when i do get a motorcycle i am going to be more smart about it to try to avoid being a meat waffle because i know i am not invincible so im going to try my best to live to ride another day but when time comes time comes. Riding is for me i dont care if people look at me like im some wimp because to me its all about survival.

sorry for the longish rant it just got me a little bit worked up.

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by blink

On the 100/110/km/h bikes will take it over 150 and I hit 225 the other day...

Now don't think our cops don't care. They just can't do anything if you're flying down at over 200km/h.

So it all comes to show that speeding is possible to do safely and in a smart way without getting tickets.

Umm ya... I don't think any situation where one is doing 225 km/h on a public road and daring law enforcement is in any way, shape or form qualified as being safe and "smart" about speeding. Seems like the perfect example for the opposite of "smart". There's a difference between say speeding 20 km/h over compared to displaying gross disregard for the law and thinking that you're "smart" just because you're not getting caught. See how long that cat and mouse game will last.

[Sinister]

Calm yourself. I never told you how to ride. I never said you wimp. I'm simply pointing out if you want to be as safe as possible on the road then your choice is 4 wheels and doors and not a bike. You spoke of unnecessary risk and technically riding a motorcycle is one. So if you believe in eliminating unnecessary risk then why be on a bike.

Originally Posted by rusninja

Na ill stick to what i want but im not going to be a total dumb... about it, riding/driving is a privilege and if you go around thinking your smarter then the law someday it will catch up to you. I speed sometimes, in a car be like 10 mph shoot i still know im doing wrong. But it all comes down to reaction if your speeding and something pops up will you be screwed because you cant stop in time? Speeding is never smart that was my point if you dont speed then your a saint but if you do dont go off like your smart about it.

Blink talking about how he went 225km in a 100/110 what is he 17, cars or not on the freeway if he keeps up that speed and thinks he smart he needs to rethink his way about speeding before he ends up a meat waffle as they say on a center divider or a tree god knows what because we all knows sht happens.

So please dont go acting like i am afraid because you dont know me but if you did in person i admit i wouldnt come off anyway as smart but im not stupid, Currently i have no motorcycle but with my family and some friends telling me i am pretty much going to die i dont really pay attention because when i do get a motorcycle i am going to be more smart about it to try to avoid being a meat waffle because i know i am not invincible so im going to try my best to live to ride another day but when time comes time comes. Riding is for me i dont care if people look at me like im some wimp because to me its all about survival.

sorry for the longish rant it just got me a little bit worked up.

[massacremasses]

I DO WHAT I WANT!!!

F-CK THE POOOLICE!!!


tehehehe

[ninja250]

I used to say that too until I got to spend a few nights in the fun house. lol

Like it or not gotta do what they say or you will end up paying for it somehow eventually.

Better kiss buns because if cops think you doing something wrong now days they might send a bullet your way too. Cheaper than us paying for your jail time.

[blink]

Originally Posted by Boom King

Umm ya... I don't think any situation where one is doing 225 km/h on a public road and daring law enforcement is in any way, shape or form qualified as being safe and "smart" about speeding. Seems like the perfect example for the opposite of "smart". There's a difference between say speeding 20 km/h over compared to displaying gross disregard for the law and thinking that you're "smart" just because you're not getting caught. See how long that cat and mouse game will last.

Read posts properly before being smart

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by ninja250

I used to say that too until I got to spend a few nights in the fun house. lol

Like it or not gotta do what they say or you will end up paying for it somehow eventually.

Better kiss buns because if cops think you doing something wrong now days they might send a bullet your way too. Cheaper than us paying for your jail time.

Oh id do more then that...


muahahaha

[blink]

Originally Posted by rusninja

Na ill stick to what i want but im not going to be a total dumb... about it, riding/driving is a privilege and if you go around thinking your smarter then the law someday it will catch up to you. I speed sometimes, in a car be like 10 mph shoot i still know im doing wrong. But it all comes down to reaction if your speeding and something pops up will you be screwed because you cant stop in time? Speeding is never smart that was my point if you dont speed then your a saint but if you do dont go off like your smart about it.

Blink talking about how he went 225km in a 100/110 what is he 17, cars or not on the freeway if he keeps up that speed and thinks he smart he needs to rethink his way about speeding before he ends up a meat waffle as they say on a center divider or a tree god knows what because we all knows sht happens.

So please dont go acting like i am afraid because you dont know me but if you did in person i admit i wouldnt come off anyway as smart but im not stupid, Currently i have no motorcycle but with my family and some friends telling me i am pretty much going to die i dont really pay attention because when i do get a motorcycle i am going to be more smart about it to try to avoid being a meat waffle because i know i am not invincible so im going to try my best to live to ride another day but when time comes time comes. Riding is for me i dont care if people look at me like im some wimp because to me its all about survival.

sorry for the longish rant it just got me a little bit worked up.

Haha you think you're better and more wise because you're older? How old are you? I wouldn't even have mentioned the age argument if I were you, most people are quite shocked when they find out I'm 17...actually 18.

Who says your a wimp if you don't speed? Obviously you don't understand the thread.? No one here demotes you as a rider for not speeding, also if you understood english properly me saying 225 had NOTHING to do with my other paragraph about safe speeding

And what are you trying to accomplish by saying don't think I'm scared of you? ...Were on the internet trying to have a conversation obviously no one is scared of anyone.
As for the "when I get one I will be safe" that's good. I'm safe too, I've been driving for 4 years and haven't gotten any tickets nor have I had any accidents, so as for you thinking I'm dumb and stupid for my age, not really..

So as for the meat waffle talk I think you should save that for the older guys, a lot of them are over 25 with good jobs and so on...I'm surprised when I see who's driving the bike since we usually pull over for coffee after we tag along with other bikers. So the age accusation really isn't on your side

[blink]

Originally Posted by rusninja

Na ill stick to what i want but im not going to be a total dumb... about it, riding/driving is a privilege and if you go around thinking your smarter then the law someday it will catch up to you. I speed sometimes, in a car be like 10 mph shoot i still know im doing wrong. But it all comes down to reaction if your speeding and something pops up will you be screwed because you cant stop in time? Speeding is never smart that was my point if you dont speed then your a saint but if you do dont go off like your smart about it.

Blink talking about how he went 225km in a 100/110 what is he 17, cars or not on the freeway if he keeps up that speed and thinks he smart he needs to rethink his way about speeding before he ends up a meat waffle as they say on a center divider or a tree god knows what because we all knows sht happens.

So please dont go acting like i am afraid because you dont know me but if you did in person i admit i wouldnt come off anyway as smart but im not stupid, Currently i have no motorcycle but with my family and some friends telling me i am pretty much going to die i dont really pay attention because when i do get a motorcycle i am going to be more smart about it to try to avoid being a meat waffle because i know i am not invincible so im going to try my best to live to ride another day but when time comes time comes. Riding is for me i dont care if people look at me like im some wimp because to me its all about survival.

sorry for the longish rant it just got me a little bit worked up.

Also you kind of contradicted yourself because you said speeding is dumb and an unnecessary risk and you just admited that you do speed sometimes...?

[blink]

Originally Posted by ninja250

I used to say that too until I got to spend a few nights in the fun house. lol

Like it or not gotta do what they say or you will end up paying for it somehow eventually.

Better kiss buns because if cops think you doing something wrong now days they might send a bullet your way too. Cheaper than us paying for your jail time.

Yeah I completely agree with you, there are always exceptions and some people will be lucky and get away with it, but most won't.

So that's what I'm trying to get across to the russininja guy, but I don't think he quite understands that I clearly specified that I do not always speed. Maybe others understand though.

[blink]

Originally Posted by Alex

Someone doesn't realize they are being trolled.....

my "double lordy" reply was a sarcastic mock towards him ..

[Boom King]

he still doesn't get it

[Alex]

No, no he doesn't.

[massacremasses]