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Old April 2nd, 2017, 02:20 PM   #1
Norway
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Bike done about 24000 miles, never a valve adjustment, feels weaker.

My Ninja 250 bought new in 2012 has now gone about 38 600 km, or 24 000 miles. Last year, and this spring, I believe that the engine has become weaker than what it was with about half the mileage.
The acceleration might be weaker, and the indicated tow speed is probably lower. When the bike was never, I easily reached an indicated 155 kph, or slightly above 90 mph. Last summer it was hard reaching close to 150 kph,
even in what might have been a slight downhill.
Valves were inspected at 24 000 km. They were within spec, according to the
Bike shop.
The bike has been used for my daily 45 minutes commute (each direction)
and serviced yearly.
When the engine feels weaker, what's normally the cause? Is it likely to improve if valves are adjusted, you think?
(Once had a Kawasaki ZX 11. After a valve adjustment and tuning of carburators it definately became stronger and faster).
Thanks.
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Old April 2nd, 2017, 02:38 PM   #2
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I'm not sure you can define a "normal" cause for an engine reducing its maximum power. Some possibilities include dirty air filter, carburetors not fully opening, improper ignition timing, wrong air/fuel mixture (dirty jets), incorrect valve adjustment, and worn rings and/or cylinders.
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Old April 2nd, 2017, 02:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
I'm not sure you can define a "normal" cause for an engine reducing its maximum power. Some possibilities include dirty air filter, carburetors not fully opening, improper ignition timing, wrong air/fuel mixture (dirty jets), incorrect valve adjustment, and worn rings and/or cylinders.
In this case, the air filter was relatively recently replaced. It also has fuel injection. It has been standing for about 4 months now, with gasoline being the same age. (I still believe there was no ethanol in this fuel - 98 octane
Shell V-power). The fuel is old, anyway, so it might improve a little bit when getting rid of the old gasoline.
I hope a valve adjustment could help, when (/if) that day comes. Engine runs fine, without any odd noises and no disturbing vibrations. Just feels slightly weaker. Maybe it's normal for a 5 years old 24 000 miles / almost 40 000 km bike.
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Old April 2nd, 2017, 03:39 PM   #4
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I would not expect the engine to be noticeably down on power in 24,000 miles.
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Old April 2nd, 2017, 07:00 PM   #5
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If the bike was serviced yearly, how come the Valves have not been adjusted ?
The 250r in Europe is fuel injected. The air & oil filters should have been replaced every at every annual service. The fuel filter should have been replaced or at least inspected at some point to. So was it serviced by a dealer or by you ?
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Old April 2nd, 2017, 07:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norway View Post
In this case, the air filter was relatively recently replaced. It also has fuel injection. It has been standing for about 4 months now, with gasoline being the same age. (I still believe there was no ethanol in this fuel - 98 octane
Shell V-power). The fuel is old, anyway, so it might improve a little bit when getting rid of the old gasoline.
I hope a valve adjustment could help, when (/if) that day comes. Engine runs fine, without any odd noises and no disturbing vibrations. Just feels slightly weaker. Maybe it's normal for a 5 years old 24 000 miles / almost 40 000 km bike.
There you go. Drain and refill the tank.

Use the lowest octane ethanol-free gas that's recommended in the manual for the most power and economy - which is usually "Regular". "Premium" gas will not make more power or provide noticeable benefits -but at times it's the only way to get ethanol-free gas.

You may also want to run a strong fuel system cleaner like Shell Techron Concentrate (1oz per gal) if it's available. It will clean deposits from the injectors, intake valves, and combustion chambers after a full tank or 2.
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Old April 2nd, 2017, 09:12 PM   #7
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What about the rest of the bike?

Are the brakes dragging? Have the calipers ever been cleaned? Chain and sprockets clean and lubed? Have you checked the tire pressure?

It doesn't take much on these bikes for a little extra rolling resistance to feel like less "power" when on the road.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 12:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk View Post
If the bike was serviced yearly, how come the Valves have not been adjusted ?
The 250r in Europe is fuel injected. The air & oil filters should have been replaced every at every annual service. The fuel filter should have been replaced or at least inspected at some point to. So was it serviced by a dealer or by you ?
It has only had one valve inspection, at 24 000 km. I don't know why the dealer did not check the valves more often, or adjusted them. At that occasion they were all said to be within specifications. The bike has seldom been ridden less than 40 minutes at a time, and usually with a maximum
indicated speed of 75 mph / 125 km/t on such a trip. Average speed is probably around 35-40 mph.
The bike has been serviced at 2 different places (AB Motor and Ride / Yamaha center in
trondheim, Norway). Oil and filter have been changed, and it was serviced at
1000 km, 6000 km, 12000km, 18000 km, 24000 km., 30000 km and 36 000 km.
I never did it myself.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 12:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
There you go. Drain and refill the tank.

Use the lowest octane ethanol-free gas that's recommended in the manual for the most power and economy - which is usually "Regular". "Premium" gas will not make more power or provide noticeable benefits -but at times it's the only way to get ethanol-free gas.

You may also want to run a strong fuel system cleaner like Shell Techron Concentrate (1oz per gal) if it's available. It will clean deposits from the injectors, intake valves, and combustion chambers after a full tank or 2.
It was recently taken out after having been left in a barn for 4 months. When I can, I use 98 octane Shell V-power, which has been ethanlol-free as far as i know. Anyway, the government is quickly pushing E10 to the market, and
threaten to increase the ethanol content even higher.
Think I should get new gasoline and add some concentrate, yes.
I remember when i picked up the bike after it had been stored for more than 11 months (I stayed in SD, CA for almost a year). For the first week or more, it felt like it had lost about 20 % of it's power. It improved after some time..
May have to do with the fuel this time as well, even though it has been standing for only 4 months this time.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 12:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCanuckGoat View Post
What about the rest of the bike?

Are the brakes dragging? Have the calipers ever been cleaned? Chain and sprockets clean and lubed? Have you checked the tire pressure?

It doesn't take much on these bikes for a little extra rolling resistance to feel like less "power" when on the road.
Tire pressure and brakes should get a check.. Chain and sprockets are worn.
Yes, such issues could probably add up..
(Seems like you have an XL 250. I had an '84 XL 250 a year ago, when staying in San Diego. Great bike, great fun, that as well.)
Thanks for advice, from several people here. If i find that the performance improves, I'll report it here.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 01:27 AM   #11
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I have had the same experience on two occassions. First when I hadn't cleaned the air filter in maybe 30 000 km (yes, my bike doesn't get enough attention). You might want to double check the workshops work, and I also think that on roads like ours the filter can fill up quickly with dirt. Especially in winter, with lots of grease and sludge.

The second experience is right now, I have a problem with the charging so voltage is low. I thought it was the battery so replaced it, it wasn't the battery but the bike ran stronger for a while. So check your charging voltage, it's a simple test. The ECU should compensate for lower voltage but it seems it doesn't fully, or quickly enough when the voltage varies due to bad charging.

There are people reporting improved performance after valve adjustment, I don't understand how. When adjusting the valves you normally make them looser, meaning less valve lift and less duration. But we are talking very small differences, maybe 0.1 mm lower lift. In any case, the bike would be very slightly slower after adjustment at least at high revs.

A third possibility is that the spark plugs are worn out, you don't mention them. The original plugs shouldn't last more than 40000 km. The manual says to replace them every 12000 km.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 04:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgx107 View Post
I have had the same experience on two occassions. First when I hadn't cleaned the air filter in maybe 30 000 km (yes, my bike doesn't get enough attention). You might want to double check the workshops work, and I also think that on roads like ours the filter can fill up quickly with dirt. Especially in winter, with lots of grease and sludge.

The second experience is right now, I have a problem with the charging so voltage is low. I thought it was the battery so replaced it, it wasn't the battery but the bike ran stronger for a while. So check your charging voltage, it's a simple test. The ECU should compensate for lower voltage but it seems it doesn't fully, or quickly enough when the voltage varies due to bad charging.

There are people reporting improved performance after valve adjustment, I don't understand how. When adjusting the valves you normally make them looser, meaning less valve lift and less duration. But we are talking very small differences, maybe 0.1 mm lower lift. In any case, the bike would be very slightly slower after adjustment at least at high revs.

A third possibility is that the spark plugs are worn out, you don't mention them. The original plugs shouldn't last more than 40000 km. The manual says to replace them every 12000 km.
Several good suggestions have been provided. Spark plugs were replaced at least once on this 250R, so they are hopefully ok.
The air filter was also changed not long ago, though you can never be 100 % sure unless you saw it happen. Anyway, I can't say that I mistrust the repair shop.
Once had a ZX 11 run better after valve and carburator adjustments, but don't know exactly what made it run better afterwards.. Could maybe be the carbs,
as the bike used to "gargle" a little bit before it came with improved power.
I haven't been riding the bike since november / december, before taking it out on last Friday. The road conditions are generally not good, and of course it's a lot of sludge, snow, salt and dirt on many of our roads. Air humidity is also 78 % at the moment. I live further north than for example Anchorage, so unfortunately we have lots of ****** weather. So, air filters should have many possibilities to become filled with dirt.
Several things I should check..
All in all, I'm very pleased with the 250R.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 06:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norway View Post
Tire pressure and brakes should get a check.. Chain and sprockets are worn.
Yes, such issues could probably add up..
(Seems like you have an XL 250. I had an '84 XL 250 a year ago, when staying in San Diego. Great bike, great fun, that as well.)
Thanks for advice, from several people here. If i find that the performance improves, I'll report it here.
It's amazing how a clean and lube on the chain makes it roll easier when I walk with it.....nevermind if you are starting to get tight links on the chain. I also ran into my rear caliper not fully releasing (caliper piston was dirty) a couple years ago and it was making the bike feel sluggish.

I'm pretty pumped about the XL. I'm about a week away from getting it plated as it needs an inspection, but I'm close!
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Old April 7th, 2017, 04:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCanuckGoat View Post
What about the rest of the bike?

Are the brakes dragging? Have the calipers ever been cleaned? Chain and sprockets clean and lubed? Have you checked the tire pressure?

It doesn't take much on these bikes for a little extra rolling resistance to feel like less "power" when on the road.

Seems like the rear brake disc is bent. i can clearly sense the increased resistance
once per rotation of the rear wheel. Rear brake is "sticking" somewhat in general, it seems. Definately part of the picture here..

Found some cheap chinese discs on ebay. Don't know if it's a good idea to buy one, or if I should stick to original parts. Will check the price at the local dealership before I decide.
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Old April 7th, 2017, 09:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norway View Post
Seems like the rear brake disc is bent. i can clearly sense the increased resistance
once per rotation of the rear wheel. Rear brake is "sticking" somewhat in general, it seems. Definately part of the picture here..

Found some cheap chinese discs on ebay. Don't know if it's a good idea to buy one, or if I should stick to original parts. Will check the price at the local dealership before I decide.
If you decide to get an OEM, still get it from eBay. It's so much cheaper.
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Old July 12th, 2017, 04:44 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgx107 View Post
I have had the same experience on two occassions. First when I hadn't cleaned the air filter in maybe 30 000 km (yes, my bike doesn't get enough attention). You might want to double check the workshops work, and I also think that on roads like ours the filter can fill up quickly with dirt. Especially in winter, with lots of grease and sludge.

The second experience is right now, I have a problem with the charging so voltage is low. I thought it was the battery so replaced it, it wasn't the battery but the bike ran stronger for a while. So check your charging voltage, it's a simple test. The ECU should compensate for lower voltage but it seems it doesn't fully, or quickly enough when the voltage varies due to bad charging.

There are people reporting improved performance after valve adjustment, I don't understand how. When adjusting the valves you normally make them looser, meaning less valve lift and less duration. But we are talking very small differences, maybe 0.1 mm lower lift. In any case, the bike would be very slightly slower after adjustment at least at high revs.

A third possibility is that the spark plugs are worn out, you don't mention them. The original plugs shouldn't last more than 40000 km. The manual says to replace them every 12000 km.
I had the bike serviced at CJ Motorteknik in Østersund, Sweden, last week. (I live less than 1 hours drive from the border).
The 250 ran much better after that, as if the power had increased by 10-20 %
since the day before. I could especially feel this at low rpms.

There was no valve adjustment performed, but the spark plugs were changed.
I was also told that the air filter had been cleaned, as it was in a bad state.
I saw one of the old spark plugs myself, and it was very dark, as if it had had
too little air (?).
Therefore I'm not convinced that these parts were properly taken care of at
earlier services, since i have had the bike serviced every 6000 km (about 3500 miles).
Anyway, this was probably what made the huge difference. Engine oil was also replaced. I had to go back to the workshop the next day, due to an overfilling
of engine oil of maybe 1 litre (!).

When the bike had only a few thousand miles on the odometer, I reached
about 155 km/h (96 mph) indicated. Now I hardly got 150 km/h going slightly downhill.. So, after all it seems like the engine has lost some of it's
maximum power after 43000 km, but I guess that's normal.
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Old July 24th, 2017, 12:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norway View Post
I had the bike serviced at CJ Motorteknik in Østersund, Sweden, last week. (I live less than 1 hours drive from the border).
The 250 ran much better after that, as if the power had increased by 10-20 %
since the day before. I could especially feel this at low rpms.

There was no valve adjustment performed, but the spark plugs were changed.
I was also told that the air filter had been cleaned, as it was in a bad state.
I saw one of the old spark plugs myself, and it was very dark, as if it had had
too little air (?).
Therefore I'm not convinced that these parts were properly taken care of at
earlier services, since i have had the bike serviced every 6000 km (about 3500 miles).
Anyway, this was probably what made the huge difference. Engine oil was also replaced. I had to go back to the workshop the next day, due to an overfilling
of engine oil of maybe 1 litre (!).

When the bike had only a few thousand miles on the odometer, I reached
about 155 km/h (96 mph) indicated. Now I hardly got 150 km/h going slightly downhill.. So, after all it seems like the engine has lost some of it's
maximum power after 43000 km, but I guess that's normal.
as previously stated there are many factors that come into your WOT top speed. timing, fuel air mixture, ambient air density, tire pressure, wind, chain health, how much oil is in your crank case, is the crank case venting well enough? just item after item. the fact you get 150 is still better than me. i top out at 140kph, i have only hit 155 a few times in its existence under supremely great conditions. cold air outside, good gas, clean everything. also, tappy valves are happy valves, you're bike is running best right after a valve job and carb cleaning and sync. that should be your baseline for how your bike should feel.
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Old August 27th, 2017, 05:10 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norway View Post
I had the bike serviced at CJ Motorteknik in Østersund, Sweden, last week. (I live less than 1 hours drive from the border).
The 250 ran much better after that, as if the power had increased by 10-20 %
since the day before. I could especially feel this at low rpms.

There was no valve adjustment performed, but the spark plugs were changed.
I was also told that the air filter had been cleaned, as it was in a bad state.
I saw one of the old spark plugs myself, and it was very dark, as if it had had
too little air (?).
Therefore I'm not convinced that these parts were properly taken care of at
earlier services, since i have had the bike serviced every 6000 km (about 3500 miles).
Anyway, this was probably what made the huge difference. Engine oil was also replaced. I had to go back to the workshop the next day, due to an overfilling
of engine oil of maybe 1 litre (!).

When the bike had only a few thousand miles on the odometer, I reached
about 155 km/h (96 mph) indicated. Now I hardly got 150 km/h going slightly downhill.. So, after all it seems like the engine has lost some of it's
maximum power after 43000 km, but I guess that's normal.
Have measured the gas consumption after the above mentioned service.
For a long time it was 0.41-0.42 lit./10 km. Since the service my measurements showed from just below 0.37 l./10 km to below 0.39 l./10 km.
So, the engine both feels stronger and runs more economic now.
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Old August 27th, 2017, 05:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KikRox View Post
as previously stated there are many factors that come into your WOT top speed. timing, fuel air mixture, ambient air density, tire pressure, wind, chain health, how much oil is in your crank case, is the crank case venting well enough? just item after item. the fact you get 150 is still better than me. i top out at 140kph, i have only hit 155 a few times in its existence under supremely great conditions. cold air outside, good gas, clean everything. also, tappy valves are happy valves, you're bike is running best right after a valve job and carb cleaning and sync. that should be your baseline for how your bike should feel.
I haven't been close to finding the top speed after the service, but like I mentioned it feels stronger now, and the gas consumption is lowered by 5-10 %. The bike has fuel injection, and I try and always run it on 98 octane gas
having little or no ethanol.
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Old August 27th, 2017, 06:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norway View Post
I haven't been close to finding the top speed after the service, but like I mentioned it feels stronger now, and the gas consumption is lowered by 5-10 %. The bike has fuel injection, and I try and always run it on 98 octane gas
having little or no ethanol.
Not sure how that relates to our system of octane measurement, but running higher octane than the manual suggests is not an advantage, and will cost you mileage and power. Gas with ethanol will cost you mileage, but a F.I. engine will correct for the leaner mixture so it will run about the same.

Run higher octane "Premium" only if you need to get away from gas with ethanol.
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Old August 27th, 2017, 08:33 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Not sure how that relates to our system of octane measurement, but running higher octane than the manual suggests is not an advantage, and will cost you mileage and power. Gas with ethanol will cost you mileage, but a F.I. engine will correct for the leaner mixture so it will run about the same.

Run higher octane "Premium" only if you need to get away from gas with ethanol.
We have mainly 2 options: 95 octane or 98 octane. It's not easy as a consumer to know exactly the ethanol content, and it seems like an increasing amount of ethanol is blended into the fuels.
Up till recently, rumours said that the 98 octane was ethanol free. Most 95 octane here (Norway, Scandinavia) probably contains at least 5 or 7 % ethanol. To have as little ethanol as possible in the fuel, I choose 98 octane.

I hope the F.I. system can correct for the actual amounts of ethanol that we
presently have to deal with. I have read that it's not always the case.
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Old August 27th, 2017, 08:37 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Not sure how that relates to our system of octane measurement, but running higher octane than the manual suggests is not an advantage, and will cost you mileage and power. Gas with ethanol will cost you mileage, but a F.I. engine will correct for the leaner mixture so it will run about the same.

Run higher octane "Premium" only if you need to get away from gas with ethanol.
In the manual for the Ninja 250, on page 28, it says:
"Do not use an E10 fuel, or any fuel with an ethanol volume content more than 5 % in this vehicle. It has not been tested and certified for use with such fuels. Damage to the engine and fuel system, or engine starting and/or performance problems mayresult from the use of improper fuel".

98 has been, or still is, ethanol free around here. That's not the case for the other possibility, 95 octane. So, I always used 98 octane when I could.
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Old August 27th, 2017, 11:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norway View Post
In the manual for the Ninja 250, on page 28, it says:
"Do not use an E10 fuel, or any fuel with an ethanol volume content more than 5 % in this vehicle. It has not been tested and certified for use with such fuels. Damage to the engine and fuel system, or engine starting and/or performance problems mayresult from the use of improper fuel".

98 has been, or still is, ethanol free around here. That's not the case for the other possibility, 95 octane. So, I always used 98 octane when I could.
That's the first I've seen that.

I believe the U.S. manuals say E10 is ok, but nothing more.

In any case, the lowest octane that just barely keeps detonation away produces the most power and best economy. That's what they recommend in the manual.

I will personally go up in octane if I need to get away from ethanol as well, but luckily in my area I can get ethanol-free "Regular".
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Old June 29th, 2018, 06:44 AM   #24
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I had the bike serviced at CJ Motorteknik in Østersund, Sweden, last week. (I live less than 1 hours drive from the border).
The 250 ran much better after that, as if the power had increased by 10-20 %
since the day before. I could especially feel this at low rpms.

There was no valve adjustment performed, but the spark plugs were changed.
I was also told that the air filter had been cleaned, as it was in a bad state.
I saw one of the old spark plugs myself, and it was very dark, as if it had had
too little air (?).
Therefore I'm not convinced that these parts were properly taken care of at
earlier services, since i have had the bike serviced every 6000 km (about 3500 miles).
Anyway, this was probably what made the huge difference. Engine oil was also replaced. I had to go back to the workshop the next day, due to an overfilling
of engine oil of maybe 1 litre (!).

When the bike had only a few thousand miles on the odometer, I reached
about 155 km/h (96 mph) indicated. Now I hardly got 150 km/h going slightly downhill.. So, after all it seems like the engine has lost some of it's
maximum power after 43000 km, but I guess that's normal.
I went to Northbike in Sundsvall, Sweden, recently. The bike had a 48 000 km service including valve inspection. I was told that there was no need for adjustments. That means the 250 never had a valve adjustment in 48 000 kms. It runs very well. Yesterday the speedometer indicated almost 140 km/h going slightly uphill..
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Old June 29th, 2018, 03:35 PM   #25
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I skimmed through the thread, it seems a service at some type of qualified service shop got the bike performing well again.

In the future, for other readers of this thread there is a few things you can do to hone in on valves. Check your engine compression. Valves that are tight may not seal properly resulting in lower compression readings. Once a compression reading has been confirmed in 1 cylinder, then put a teaspoon of engine oil in the spark plug hole. Then take a compression reading again. The compression should read higher as the piston rings are sealed tighter by the oil introduced in the cylinder. If your compression does not measure higher, it may be very likely do to valves that are not sealing.

Setting the valves on these bikes is not really a quick easy thing to do. A fair amount of parts must come off and out of the way to access the valves. Valve cover must be removed. Engine timing set properly and then valve clearance measured. Shims are replaced with either thinner or thicker sizes to adjust clearances. I would expect that if you someone had paid to have valves checked and 10,00 KM, 20,000 KM, 30,000 KM...Etc it would add up to a considerable sum. It's fairly time consuming.
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Old June 29th, 2018, 07:26 PM   #26
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Old June 30th, 2018, 10:19 AM   #27
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Just for reference and future searches, people are often confused about octane ratings, how they're determined and their effects on combustion, Higher-octane fuels does not burn slower, in fact many of 100+octane fuels have 5-10% faster combustion speeds, which is what generates the extra power. What is "slower" in higher-octane fuels is formation of radical alkyl groups during combustion, which are initiators of knock/detonation.

Here's good dyno comparison: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/fuel-...ng-comparison/ Engine made identical power using 87-100 octane fuels, even with ignition-advancement to take advantage of higher-octane. Only 114-leaded race-fuel made an improvement of... 2%.

Anyway, octane ratings in Europe is based upon RON method. In U.S., octane = AKI = CLC = (RON+MON)/2. Fuel with 95-octane in Europe is about 89-octane at U.S. pumps, 98 in Europe is 91-92 U.S.

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Old August 2nd, 2019, 12:17 AM   #28
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Thanks for all the useful discussions, and advice.
I have noticed that fresh gasoline is needed every spring, for good performance.
The bike hasn't been used much lately, but now it has about 34 000 miles on the meter. It was serviced according to the schedules in the manual, as far as I know (if the workshops did what they should).
Despite the fact that I believe that most issues discussed here should be in order, the bike is weaker than when it was new(er).
It probably has about 5-10 mph lower top speed, and it would take longer to reach. In 6th gear, it seems somewhat reluctant to spin at higher rpms than 10 000. It's very smooth, without vibrations, and runs very fine. Just less power..
Maybe in a year or so, it's time for a larger service again. If a valve adjustment could help, I would be happy to pay for it.
(It never had a valve adjustment in about 55000 km / 34000 miles. I have been told that the valves were within specs, 2 or 3 times.)
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Old August 2nd, 2019, 12:41 AM   #29
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Did you ever replace the dragging rear-brake?

Mentioned dark spark-plugs, which is sign of too much fuel. Which lowers power compared to more optimal leaner mixture (less fuel). There are many faults that can cause too much fuel. Vacuum-leak between throttle and intake-valve can cause false-readings from MAP-sensor, tricking ECU into injecting too much fuel. Extra fuel also clogs catalytic-converter with soot, restricting exhaust-flow and slowing bike down.

You should also do compression-test to determine internal wear on engine's rings and valves. Some autos have issues with burnt oil clogging rings, leading to poor ring sealing. Your dark plugs may also be due to burning oil. Clogged rings may be indicated with compression-test.

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Old August 12th, 2019, 09:19 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
I'm not sure you can define a "normal" cause for an engine reducing its maximum power. Some possibilities include dirty air filter, carburetors not fully opening, improper ignition timing, wrong air/fuel mixture (dirty jets), incorrect valve adjustment, and worn rings and/or cylinders.
Sound reasonable to me.
The airfilter should be new, and the bike has fuel injection. It has been used
mainly for commuting, and very few short trips (< 5 miles).
It has 55 000 km. If most of it was for commuting, with each trip being 40 km,
it means that it has probably been started less than 1500 times.
Rings and cylinders may be worn. Since it never received a valve adjustment, it might improve by having that done. I don't know..
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Old August 12th, 2019, 09:23 AM   #31
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Did you ever replace the dragging rear-brake?

Mentioned dark spark-plugs, which is sign of too much fuel. Which lowers power compared to more optimal leaner mixture (less fuel). There are many faults that can cause too much fuel. Vacuum-leak between throttle and intake-valve can cause false-readings from MAP-sensor, tricking ECU into injecting too much fuel. Extra fuel also clogs catalytic-converter with soot, restricting exhaust-flow and slowing bike down.

You should also do compression-test to determine internal wear on engine's rings and valves. Some autos have issues with burnt oil clogging rings, leading to poor ring sealing. Your dark plugs may also be due to burning oil. Clogged rings may be indicated with compression-test.
It does not burn oil, and I never needed to refill between the regular services. (Did it once, but it was probably not necessary.)
The rear brake is dragging somewhat, but not enough to heat up the rear disc considerably after a trip. I have no problems touching it with my fingers afterwards, so I doubt that much power is going that way..

I remember having a ZX11 serviced, including adjusting the carburators as well as the valves. It had an improved throttle response afterwards.
This bike has FI, and even though the workshop told that the valves were within specs, it might still have benefited from adjustments...?
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Old August 12th, 2019, 10:00 AM   #32
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Do compression-test. That will give us objective numbers to analyze.

Does your bike have O2-sensor? Connect gauge and capture live-data to analyze to determine if it's working properly.

Something like this with no obvious faults requires careful inspection following air-flow from beginning to end. Measuring each component and comparing its numbers with allowable ranges given in FSM. Measure fuel-pressure in rail. Measure static flow-rate of injectors. Measure no-pressure flow-rate of fuel-pump. The numbers will tell us exactly what problem is.

Even without a factory-test number as target, we can still come up with tests to measure. Such as air-flow volume through intake-snorkel. Put it on flow-bench and measure CFM of air-flow. Will find obstructions such as this!



I don't trust shops. Did they give you sheet with measured valve-clearances?
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